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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 17, 2018 22:41:14 GMT -5
Brunson reminds me of a slightly better Smith-Rivera. I liked DSR. But that's like saying Isiaih Thomas was a slightly better Doc Rivers Slightly better??? LMAO Brunson will be in the NBA and DSR quit playing basketball. Who are these people man! lol
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 17, 2018 22:51:40 GMT -5
There's like 1 consensus top 100 guard out there for 2018 - Quinerly, it's not going to happen. You're asking for a rainbow unicorn. We need to find someone like Wash and hope they're good. I'm not talking for 2018, I mean moving forward. We have no talent at the guard spot and McClung is not a better prospect than a couple of guys already on the roster were. Based on the 2019 offers out there so far it seems we are more concerned with upgrading the guard play than the staff is.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,961
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 17, 2018 22:52:22 GMT -5
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,328
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Post by tashoya on Jan 17, 2018 22:53:23 GMT -5
This should get fun in a minute...
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Jan 17, 2018 22:57:08 GMT -5
There's like 1 consensus top 100 guard out there for 2018 - Quinerly, it's not going to happen. You're asking for a rainbow unicorn. We need to find someone like Wash and hope they're good. I'm not talking for 2018, I mean moving forward. We have no talent at the guard spot and McClung is not a better prospect than a couple of guys already on the roster were. Yep, that is doable and it seems Patrick has been making the rounds for 2019 and beyond. Patrick is making himself present and last year had the sad end of summer picking up recruiting scraps. Most guards have a good idea what their top 5 are and have been chatting with programs by their high school soph year, bigger players (wings and bigs) it can take longer to see how their games develop for top 100 players. I agree on McClung. I've liked the improvement Juggy has made, but he still has a ways to go. I don't know who is working with the guards and helping them grow as guards. During JTIII years shooters and guards didn't really progress much. Most shooters lost their shot, which really was confounding. It is good to see players improve during the year, which is a really nice change. It would be great to see players make good leaps, like they do at Villanova, Butler, and Creighton during their college years. (I don't know how much ceiling McClung has).
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 17, 2018 23:00:00 GMT -5
We are not going to beat Nova. I am just looking for a glimmer of coaching competence. Upsets do happen. Even with teams who have much less talent (see Ohio u., fgcu, nc state beating us. Or George mason, vcu, uConn, butler NCAA tourney runs). We have not beaten a team that is decent. Player improvement happens during a season. Anyone seeing that? I am glad we didn’t have a bunch of 100-175 level teams in the oOC. We would have taken some bad losses. We need to show something to recruit the next group. Broadus was somehow able to recruit through the disappointing results the last few years (peak, white, Copeland, Derrickson, govan, Waters). We needed to keep Broadus. I don’t love the way the duke transfer was handled this week. Please respond with strategic, player development, recruiting examples from Ewing that are reasons for hope. While we don't know how Patrick will work out, I'll still play . . Player development? Govan in particular, and Derrickson to a lesser extent, have improved more in 8 months under Ewing than they did in 2 full years under III. Some of the others have certainly improved incrementally at best. Then again, you can't cook a filet mignon when you start with ground beef. Recruiting? We will see. As has been discussed ad nauseam, Patrick and his staff were a good year or more behind all of the coaches who have established relationships with top recruits. It is unfair to judge that part of his performance until he has at least one more recruiting class. He did bring in Pickett; at this point there are questions about what he will ultimately give us, but then again Copeland never lived up to his hype either. Strategy? We have an uptempo offense - we just need to get some guys who can run it. Our press break is better, even without great ball handlers. We don't foul as much on defense because at least some of the guys are learning how to properly defend (a long way to go, I realize). We didn't see many, if any, glimmers of coaching competence the last 2 years.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 249
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Post by playtyler on Jan 17, 2018 23:17:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I actually agree with everything you said. Not sure if govan improved or the offense runs more through him with peak and pryor gone. Govan had some great games last year.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 17, 2018 23:29:57 GMT -5
Where’d you find that racist link? LOL!
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Jan 17, 2018 23:36:08 GMT -5
We are not going to beat Nova. I am just looking for a glimmer of coaching competence. Upsets do happen. Even with teams who have much less talent (see Ohio u., fgcu, nc state beating us. Or George mason, vcu, uConn, butler NCAA tourney runs). We have not beaten a team that is decent. Player improvement happens during a season. Anyone seeing that? I am glad we didn’t have a bunch of 100-175 level teams in the oOC. We would have taken some bad losses. We need to show something to recruit the next group. Broadus was somehow able to recruit through the disappointing results the last few years (peak, white, Copeland, Derrickson, govan, Waters). We needed to keep Broadus. I don’t love the way the duke transfer was handled this week. Please respond with strategic, player development, recruiting examples from Ewing that are reasons for hope. While we don't know how Patrick will work out, I'll still play . . Player development? Govan in particular, and Derrickson to a lesser extent, have improved more in 8 months under Ewing than they did in 2 full years under III. Some of the others have certainly improved incrementally at best. Then again, you can't cook a file mignon when you start with ground beef. Recruiting? We will see. As has been discussed ad nauseam, Patrick and his staff were a good year or more behind all of the coaches who have established relationships with top recruits. It is unfair to judge that part of his performance until he has at least one more recruiting class. He did bring in Pickett; at this point there are questions about what he will ultimately give us, but then again Copeland never lived up to his hype either. Strategy? We have an uptempo offense - we just need to get some guys who can run it. Our press break is better, even without great ball handlers. We don't foul as much on defense because at least some of the guys are learning how to properly defend (a long way to go, I realize). We didn't see many, if any, glimmers of coaching competence the last 2 years. I agree with the above. Juggy Blair has been improving the last few weeks as things seem to be clicking a bit more. Pickett seems to be a bumpy road with some ups and some downs in the last couple weeks he has been in the right spots on defense which is good (not quite doing what he should be though, but this will come). Kaleb seemed to improve quite a bit until the last couple weeks when he drifted back to older habits.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 17, 2018 23:56:28 GMT -5
This environment has been toxic. The play of our beloved team has been a terrible joke for years now. I was literally born a Hoya, and I love the Thompsons as men and coaches. JTIIIs team for me were always lacking something. (There were always some good players...) However, the style of play with the perrouettes at the top of the key was so predictable. Whether it was the Princeton offense or another it didnt matter, it was boring and dependent on hero ball. Other teams seem to know what was going to happen. I didn't like depending on Rodney Pryor or LJ Peak or Roy Hibbert! I love fundamental basketball with fast breaks, pick and roll, backdoor cuts and high-low exchanges with big men. It's how I was taught. But what we were playing was not enjoyable or winning basketball. I didnt like JTIII's system. I liked the man as I perceived him as a person. Even though we're getting our buts kicked regularly, I like what Patrick is trying to do. I like the defensive effort. Only by playing that out of conference schedule were we going to get a sense of Patrick's system. With growth, maturity, and better talent I believe we, or maybe just me, will enjoy this style of play. It's going to take some time but I've suffered through years of dissappointing play before joining this board and adding my two cents to these heart-felt discussions. He assessed the team correctly when he said this year was going to be ugly. It truly is! It's going to take time before we improve, but my bet's on Patrick and staff to get it right sooner than later. Everything is on the line for him, and I dig his fighting, competitive spirit. Go Hoyas!
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Post by jamaicahoya on Jan 18, 2018 0:30:21 GMT -5
This environment has been toxic. The play of our beloved team has been a terrible joke for years now. I was literally born a Hoya, and I love the Thompsons as men and coaches. JTIIIs team for me were always lacking something. (Therr were always some good players... However, the style of play with the perrouettes at the top of the key was so predictable. Whether it was the Princeton offense or another it didnt matter, it was boring and dependent on hero ball. Other teams seem to know what was going to happen. I didnt like depending on Rodney or LJ Peak or Roy Hibbert! I love fundamental basketball with fast breaks, pick and roll, backdoor cuts and high-low exchanges with big men. It's how I was taught. But what we were playing was not enjoyable or winning basketball. I didnt like JTIIIs system. I liked the man as I perceived him as a person. Even though we're getting our buts kicked regularly, I like what Patrick is trying to do. I like the defensive effort. Only by playing that out of conference schedule were we going to get a sense of Patrick's system. With growth, maturity, and better talent I believe we, or maybe just me, will enjoy this style of play. It's going to take some time but I've suffered through years of dissappointing play before joining this board and adding my two cents to these heart felt discussions. He assessed the team correctly when he said this year was going to be ugly. It truly is! Its going to take time before we improve, but my bets on Patrick and staff to get it right sooner than later. Everything is on the line for him, and I dig his fighting, competitive spirit. Go Hoyas!
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jan 18, 2018 0:37:20 GMT -5
IN the last little bit, we have seen the Golden State Creighton Bluejays, and the Golden State Villanova Wildcats, just *deleted* all the *deleted* over our *deleted*. I seriously doubt either Golden State team can recall a practice, let alone a game, where they were hitting like they did down in D.C.. As someone who knows sport pretty well, and yes, I mean "sport", not "sports", or even "basketball", I can tell you that, for the Golden States, it is all downhill from here. I mean, sure, both Golden States are really good, practically locks to beat these Hoyas on their home floor, and the problems Golden State(s) present for the Hoyas will still be profound. But, neither team, guaranteed, is gonna shoot like they did in D.C.. Mark my word, no chance. Doesn't work that way. This is not to say that Golden State(s) won't wipe their home floor with these Hoyas, but it is not going to be near as easy. This is also not to say that these Hoyas won't do a good job at setting up the GS's for success, but what we've witnessed recently, trust me, it's over with. Not sure what to think about the coming game against the Golden State Xavier Musketeers, but I think it highly unlikely that they too are going to have the greatest shooting night of their collective lives. Doesn't work that way. I was practically rooting for the repeated deep GS threes and holed deflections, knowing that with every absurd crescendo, the waiting cacophony grows ever...more cacophonous...
too much?
THis Hoya team is limited. Mosely is our best guard. Mosely has wonderful instincts, as the floaters he's hit, and the charges he's drawn, will attest. He's not, however, a true point. Jahvon Blair has a lot of game, his play against BUtler was tremendous, but he is not a point. I love and admire and respect the efforts of Mulmore and Dickerson, but they are really not the kind of players who should be getting a ton of run in the Big East. I do not mean any disrespect, and I know they will continue to work hard, and grow, and who knows, maybe a light will come on, their games will tighten up with experience, and they'll be able to utilize their talents more effectively. It is certainly possible, I am rooting for that to happen, and whatever happens, I have the same love that has always burned in my heart for all Hoyas. They want everything I want, and they want it even more badly than I do. I love them for that. JUst keep fighting fellas, better times are coming. That said, this team does not, at this point, have the horses to be able to D up the likes of the GS's, and run an offense capable of getting our two stars the ball where they need it with any kind of consistency. And yes, I do mean stars. Govan and Derrickson are the kinds of players who would be significant on probably every Hoya team that's ever been. At least their upperclassmen selves. THese guys can play. They are both being utilized much more effectively on O than they were their first two years. Unfortunately, Derr and Gov are the only true scorers on this team, and have been shut down by better teams, no real fault of their own. I like what I'm seeing from Coach. Coach obviously knows what he is doing, and from what I know of the man, which is not nothing, he hasn't the slightest idea what faking it is. Have no doubt, before you know it, your Hoyas are going to be all over the opposition, and they will come in waves. There is something happening here, people, a vision is going to be implemented, and it will be something to behold.
I love JTIII. I was dead set against the idea he should go. JTIII represents, and represented, everything that is non-negotiable for Hoya fans. He was clean, he is a great man, and his teams were really well coached. The last couple years were probably the only that the sum was less than the parts. His famous March issues were not only due to unfortunate illnesses and injuries, but the losses were also to eventual Final Four teams, and teams who had (apparently) Mt. Rushmore players on them. And yes, my perspective is that the fanbase turning on JTIII was, at least, the final straw in Waters de-commitment. I mean, I haven't the slightest idea what caused Waters, in reality, to go elsewhere, and further, I could...not...care...less.
I'm a Hoya fan who revels in the knowledge that the players are...going to Georgetown. I want them to have all that,and success on the court, but my love of the athletes is pure because I kno they are all....Georgetown students. Whatever has happened leading up to this group of Coaches and Players being the 2017-18 Georgetown Hoyas has happened, and is beyond everyone's control. I have no interest in anything beyond this...team, doing their best on and off the court. That is what I care about, and I have every reason to believe that the best for this team lies ahead...Just keep working. -
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Post by jamaicahoya on Jan 18, 2018 0:43:22 GMT -5
Sorry. Delete the previous obvious mistake posts. The perils of drinking to find hope in a deeping depressing situation with our beloved Hoyas. Yet it is in this state of mind that I can clearly see the logic in why the Hoyas took care of St. John, St. John put a scare in Nova, and Nova abusing us.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 7:34:37 GMT -5
I wrote this. So, again, your point? lol
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 7:44:41 GMT -5
This environment has been toxic. The play of our beloved team has been a terrible joke for years now. I was literally born a Hoya, and I love the Thompsons as men and coaches. JTIIIs team for me were always lacking something. (Therr were always some good players... However, the style of play with the perrouettes at the top of the key was so predictable. Whether it was the Princeton offense or another it didnt matter, it was boring and dependent on hero ball. Other teams seem to know what was going to happen. I didnt like depending on Rodney or LJ Peak or Roy Hibbert! I love fundamental basketball with fast breaks, pick and roll, backdoor cuts and high-low exchanges with big men. It's how I was taught. But what we were playing was not enjoyable or winning basketball. I didnt like JTIIIs system. I liked the man as I perceived him as a person. Even though we're getting our buts kicked regularly, I like what Patrick is trying to do. I like the defensive effort. Only by playing that out of conference schedule were we going to get a sense of Patrick's system. With growth, maturity, and better talent I believe we, or maybe just me, will enjoy this style of play. It's going to take some time but I've suffered through years of dissappointing play before joining this board and adding my two cents to these heart felt discussions. He assessed the team correctly when he said this year was going to be ugly. It truly is! Its going to take time before we improve, but my bets on Patrick and staff to get it right sooner than later. Everything is on the line for him, and I dig his fighting, competitive spirit. Go Hoyas! I hear you. We won lots of games with this Gtown system. What was boring was not having a true point guard to know when to run the offense and when to push the ball. When the Hoyas no one said a word, but when we loss all heck broke loose. After getting beat by so many point guards, JT3 finally figured out what the cure was. Getting a floor general. I agree with everything else. Coach Ewing does have that fighting and tough spirit. This will take some time to put together. Maybe more time than we expected.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jan 18, 2018 8:04:04 GMT -5
Taped the game and haven’t watched it yet (not sure if I will watch it). Trying to look at the positive, I think it is impactful to PE to take such a butt-whoopin on your home court to your biggest rival. He already knew how far we had to come to compete with Nova (which has to be the goal), but being embarrassed like that as the head coach I think will make fire burn brighter to get us back to where we need to be. PE is a prideful guy, and I feel confident he will draw extra motivation from this performance. Very clear we need to get a bunch of better guards in here. To be clear I have no idea if PE will actually succeed in getting us back battling with Nova for BE titles, but i will cling to that hope. To be clear, nobody on this Board chose Patrick to be the next coach, and nobody on this Board knows now if ultimately he will succeed. Many on this Board, myself included, thought it was time for a change. If Patrick does not succeed it does not mean a mistake was made in firing III, and I won't rehash those arguments. It simply means Patrick was the wrong choice to replace him. As fans of this program, let's all hope Patrick does succeed, and that we are restored to our rightful place at the top of the Big East.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 18, 2018 8:12:14 GMT -5
I'm not talking for 2018, I mean moving forward. We have no talent at the guard spot and McClung is not a better prospect than a couple of guys already on the roster were. Yep, that is doable and it seems Patrick has been making the rounds for 2019 and beyond. Patrick is making himself present and last year had the sad end of summer picking up recruiting scraps. Most guards have a good idea what their top 5 are and have been chatting with programs by their high school soph year, bigger players (wings and bigs) it can take longer to see how their games develop for top 100 players. I agree on McClung. I've liked the improvement Juggy has made, but he still has a ways to go. I don't know who is working with the guards and helping them grow as guards. During JTIII years shooters and guards didn't really progress much. Most shooters lost their shot, which really was confounding. It is good to see players improve during the year, which is a really nice change. It would be great to see players make good leaps, like they do at Villanova, Butler, and Creighton during their college years. (I don't know how much ceiling McClung has). Gael it's not accurate to say during the III area shooters didn't progress. It's really just Ike and Reg that didn't progress. There are more cases of shooters improving (Otto, Brilly, LJ, Jeff, PE2)
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 18, 2018 8:19:17 GMT -5
Just a handful of short points:
----There's really not much we can do on offense that would be terribly more effective. We can run screen-role until we're blue in the face, but Nova would just have switched every screen and been able to defend the ball-carrier. Our guards can't get into the lane consistently. Nor can they shoot. So a dribble-drive type offense would be horribly ineffective. And last night nobody -- not even the handful of guys on our team capable of making threes with any level of consistency -- could shoot. When that's the situation, your post players, even if they're great, aren't going to have much luck.
----And let's be clear: Our post players AREN'T great. The single biggest fools' gold part of our OOC schedule was how it made Jesse and Marcus look like all-world players inside. Both are good players, for sure. And I think both are more aggressive this year than last, probably because the offense now focuses much more on them, but maybe because they've flat out improved and/or are getting better coaching. But against athletic defenders of similar size, they aren't able to play a starring role in an offense. I'm not interested in litigating the III vs. PE points -- I think it's irrelevant and far too early in any event -- and this isn't about whether the OOC schedule was a good or a bad idea. My point simply is that people game into BE play thinking those two were more ready to care a team than they really are. Put simply: if we had played a great team early on, and those two had a game like last night in our second game of the season, people would have been up in arms.
----I maintain that hard full-court pressure D may be our best approach. It didn't really create turnovers but it also didn't turn into many wide-open layups either. Anything we can do to possibly get odd-number breaks is a good thing. I'm really surprised we haven't done it more.
----When one team shoots the lights out from three, and the other can't throw the ball in the ocean, things always look a lot worse (or better, depending on your rooting perspective). I'm not suggesting you can really do this as a predictive analysis, but I merely point it out to identify the principle: Nova is one of the best three-point teams in the country (42% on the year). But they were better than that by a lot (17-33). And a fair number of them were well contested. The Hoyas are a fairly poor three-point team: 34% overall and 32% in conference. But we were worse than that by a bit, even though many were open looks. And the difference between the teams was far more pronounced than the final stats when the game was in doubt. Just having both teams shoot their percentages means the game is 12-15 points closer. That alone doesn't make the game truly close, but if both teams shoot their season-long percentages, and instead of GU missing all theirs in the first half and Nova shooting unconsciously then, it would probably have been "only" a ten point or so lead at the half and then Nova would have slowly pulled away. Would have made a much different narrative.
Anyway, we need lots and lots of help. I'm happy with an upgrade at any position (as anyone should be, I think), but I think the single biggest need is at least one guy that plays around the perimeter (that is, not a big) that can shoot the three at a 40% or better clip. It just makes the defense's job too easy if you can't shoot at all.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,509
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 18, 2018 8:20:36 GMT -5
This was always going to be a really bad match up for the Hoyas. Nova simply plays at too fast a pace for the talent currently on the Hoyas. Nova wants to speed the game up for the opposition and in order to play well against a team like that you need strong ball handlers that are comfortable playing quickly. This is the Hoyas biggest weakness now and was completely exploited by Nova last night. You add those factors into the fact that Nova simply shot the lights out last night and you get a blow out. Some of the 3 pointers were uncontested, but even on the ones that were contested Nova was having an incredible shooting night. I would think that even Coach Wright would say they played very well last night and do not normally shoot as well as they did last night.
On the defensive end the lack of explosive athletes on Georgetown was exploited all night as Nova moved the ball quickly searching open shots. The Hoyas were working hard and trying to make the correct rotations, but what you need to slow down Nova when they are moving the ball like that are more athletes that can aggressively contest not only every shot, but every pass, to disrupt them and make it hard for Nova to get to the shots they want. The Hoyas seemed to be one step too slow all night and Nova made them pay for that on almost every opportunity
Hopefully the staff is recruiting players that are athletic/quick enough to play at the faster pace offensively and compete better on the defensive end. It seems like some of the commits they have for next year are that type of player, along with some of the guys they are targeting. Until those players arrive the Hoyas are going to struggle against teams like Nova
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Post by fanofdeke on Jan 18, 2018 8:45:29 GMT -5
I wrote this. So, again, your point? lol Wait, is your real name Adam Finkelstein? Game changer.
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