EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,853
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2017 0:19:30 GMT -5
An aside about headlines: at newspapers (I know, what the heck are those) they are almost never written by the piece's author. A copy or layout editor or an intern comes up with those. I don't know why anyone here is surprised that the Washington Post Sports section is taking shots at Georgetown. I can't remember that ever happening. You would know better than me about how headlines are written Dan but seeing that it's happened 4 headlines in a row makes me believe that it's intentional.. It also has to be mentioned that the body of the articles support the headlines, here's the 2nd paragraph of the Coppin State article.. The Hoyas earned a 76-60 victory in front of a scant crowd at Capital One Arena, but numbers didn’t accurately represent Georgetown’s sloppy play against its third opponent this season whose Rating Percentage Index, a ranking based on record and strength of schedule, is below 300 out of 351 Division I teams. Coppin State (0-8), coached by former Maryland standout Juan Dixon, is the first of three opponents for Georgetown (6-0) this week from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and sits at No. 336.Here's how the Howard article opens.. Georgetown survived a second-half surge from Howard on Thursday night for an 81-67 win, remaining unbeaten against the weakest schedule in the nation.Seems to me the Post is going out of their way to explain to the reader just how bad the Hoya schedule is this season..
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
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Post by TC on Dec 12, 2017 0:27:24 GMT -5
It's not just Goodman. You know it's bad when KenPom starts piling on. He definitely doesn't have an axe to grind and is just telling it like it is. Is he really piling on, or just pointing out that in his rankings, we have the worst nonconference SOS (351/351) in D1, and Texas Southern has the best, so when conference play starts, the two are going to pass each other in AdjEM? This isn't really like Goodman who tweeted about us like 8 times within 24 hours.
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 12, 2017 0:51:50 GMT -5
Going out of their way? To comment on a schedule that's the worst of any major team since folks started keeping track? As if it’s not true? Seems to me they’d have to go out of their way NOT to comment on something that’s historically bad. You want them to cover it up?
And in another thread someone thought Casual was too harsh during our past two seasons? If you don’t expect your team to be criticized after 2015-2017’s results then I don’t know what to tell you. The past few years sucked. This year’s schedule sucks. We can all have hope and look forward to a brighter future, but don’t whine when someone calls a spade a spade. It’s a bad look.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 1:41:05 GMT -5
There's a difference between calling a spade a spade and what Goodman is doing imo....
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 12, 2017 7:42:29 GMT -5
Right- a huge difference. This guy is a troll and to me, he is banished to the outer darkness.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,853
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2017 8:48:06 GMT -5
Going out of their way? To comment on a schedule that's the worst of any major team since folks started keeping track? As if it’s not true? Seems to me they’d have to go out of their way NOT to comment on something that’s historically bad. You want them to cover it up? And in another thread someone thought Casual was too harsh during our past two seasons? If you don’t expect your team to be criticized after 2015-2017’s results then I don’t know what to tell you. The past few years sucked. This year’s schedule sucks. We can all have hope and look forward to a brighter future, but don’t whine when someone calls a spade a spade. It’s a bad look. I don’t have an issue with the Post reporting about the schedule at all, I’ve been going in on the schedule since it came out so I really don’t want them to cover it up.. My issue is the headlines to the articles, I think it’s disrespectful to programs like Howard or Maine etc to be referred to as “cupcakes or also-rans” in a headline.. The Post could have easily written “Gtown routs Maine, move to 5-0” without having to change one bit about the article itself.. Folks can say Goodman has gotten personal but if the posts by Dan & RusskyHoya are accurate how can anyone blame him?
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 9:13:40 GMT -5
Going out of their way? To comment on a schedule that's the worst of any major team since folks started keeping track? As if it’s not true? Seems to me they’d have to go out of their way NOT to comment on something that’s historically bad. You want them to cover it up? And in another thread someone thought Casual was too harsh during our past two seasons? If you don’t expect your team to be criticized after 2015-2017’s results then I don’t know what to tell you. The past few years sucked. This year’s schedule sucks. We can all have hope and look forward to a brighter future, but don’t whine when someone calls a spade a spade. It’s a bad look. I don’t have an issue with the Post reporting about the schedule at all, I’ve been going in on the schedule since it came out so I really don’t want them to cover it up.. My issue is the headlines to the articles, I think it’s disrespectful to programs like Howard or Maine etc to be referred to as “cupcakes or also-rans” in a headline.. The Post could have easily written “Gtown routs Maine, move to 5-0” without having to change one bit about the article itself.. Folks can say Goodman has gotten personal but if the posts by Dan & RusskyHoya are accurate how can anyone blame him? Are you referring to the posts implying he was cut off access from the program for lying about job offers and salaries to help his friend at the detriment of our program and having 4 anonymous Georgetown player sources in a hit piece against the then current coach? If not, I missed the posts your referring to and would like to know what has been done to Goodman to justify any sort of personal attacks.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 12, 2017 9:53:35 GMT -5
I'll answer. 1) I don't think it hurts either side. Doesn't hurt him, but it doesn't hurt us either. 2) He's always been a shill for Mack it only came up when JT3 was fired, because that's his shtick. A good job opens and he claims his boy is a candidate or was offered the job, whether or not it's true. It didn't come up before because it didn't affect us before. I disagree on the 1st point, whatever this is with Goodman & Gtown it's worse for Gtown.. It's in a much, much more of an annoying way(like a gnat buzzing in your ear)than truly hurtful to Gtown but the bottom line is Goodman taking potshots at Gtown on a subject that a solid argument can't be made for hurts the program imo.. As for the 2nd part Gtown was mad about the article Goodman wrote that quoted anonymous sources, to me you can't get mad at a reporter for reporting on a hot story, it's just business.. Here's how I see it. There enough reporters out there that having one angry at you doesn't hurt you. And vice versa there are enough programs out there to cover that one shutting you out doesn't hurt you as a reporter.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 12, 2017 9:55:02 GMT -5
The schedule is more news worthy than anything happening on the court. Of course it's going to get headlines. I think a lot of the criticism is directed towards the administration at Georgetown and not PE himself.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2017 10:06:00 GMT -5
I don’t have an issue with the Post reporting about the schedule at all, I’ve been going in on the schedule since it came out so I really don’t want them to cover it up.. My issue is the headlines to the articles, I think it’s disrespectful to programs like Howard or Maine etc to be referred to as “cupcakes or also-rans” in a headline.. The Post could have easily written “Gtown routs Maine, move to 5-0” without having to change one bit about the article itself.. Folks can say Goodman has gotten personal but if the posts by Dan & RusskyHoya are accurate how can anyone blame him? Are you referring to the posts implying he was cut off access from the program for lying about job offers and salaries to help his friend at the detriment of our program and having 4 anonymous Georgetown player sources in a hit piece against the then current coach? If not, I missed the posts your referring to and would like to know what has been done to Goodman to justify any sort of personal attacks. For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? The anonymous source article is different, I can definitely see where that hurt some feelings at Gtown, be honest though it wasn't targeted at JT3.. I guarantee Goodman felt he wrote an honest article and was just doing his job.. If the powers that be @ Gtown felt the need to cut Goodman off because of the article so be it but folks can't get mad if he starts taking pot shots at the program.. My point is you can't tell somebody FU and then get mad when they say FU back.. To me the Chris Mack part of this is silly, Mack got an extension because his teams have done very well on the court not because a reporter pumps him up for every job opening..
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5
Are you referring to the posts implying he was cut off access from the program for lying about job offers and salaries to help his friend at the detriment of our program and having 4 anonymous Georgetown player sources in a hit piece against the then current coach? If not, I missed the posts your referring to and would like to know what has been done to Goodman to justify any sort of personal attacks. For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? The anonymous source article is different, I can definitely see where that hurt some feelings at Gtown, be honest though it wasn't targeted at JT3.. I guarantee Goodman felt he wrote an honest article and was just doing his job.. If the powers that be felt the need to cut Goodman off because of the article so be it but folks can't get mad if he starts taking pot shots at the program.. My point is you can't tell somebody FU and then get mad when they say FU back.. To me the Chris Mack part of this is silly, Mack got an extension because his teams have done very well on the court not because a reporter pumps him up for every job opening.. How did it hurt Georgetown? It made it the position look undesirable and that we were throwing 4 million dollars around begging anyone to take the job. Quite frankly, it made us look like even bigger fools than we are/were. My issue with the article is using 4 "anonymous Georgetown players" and giving weight to their opinions without any sort of justification for it. I understand the need to protect sources, but with there being hundreds of former Georgetown players associated with the program over the last 40+ years, with varying degrees of knowledge, grudges, sanity, and access to the program, it starts to become a misrepresentation. We have no idea if those players played for either Thompson, Esh, were walk-ons, were transfers, left of good terms, bad terms, have any inside knowledge or access. They quotes themselves provided similarly limited insight into anything about the program itself. "Needs to make the tournament" "Needs to recruit better". Yea, great, anyone who watched a single game last year could provide the same insight. It was hit piece that used his access to the program to gain credibility and pepper in anonymous sources, that read as valuable as a fans opinion, to read as factual support. To your point: you can't tell somebody FU and then get mad when they say FU back. What program would continue giving him special access to the program after those two moves, within months of each other? Don't bite the hand that feeds you and be surprised when you stop getting food.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 12, 2017 11:36:34 GMT -5
The schedule is more news worthy than anything happening on the court. Of course it's going to get headlines. Exactly. Our OOC schedule being the worst or second-worst ever is a quick, easy to understand talking point - the type of thing journalists love to focus on. I do think the repeated Washington Post headlines are likely intentional, but it's hard to say they are inaccurate. Part of what makes the "cupcakes" notable is the amount of them. That's likely why Maryland playing UMES isn't going to garner the same reaction as Georgetown. In fact, Georgetown played UMES in 2015, and the Washington Post headline was, "D’Vauntes Smith-Rivera leads Georgetown against Maryland-Eastern Shore." The article contained no indication that UMES was a bad team or cupcake. But again, that's because it was only 1 of 2 bad really bad opponents we played that year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 11:37:22 GMT -5
Listen to Tyler. He's a great Hoya who tells no lies....
Haha...
The part you guys seem to be missing is Goodman has gone way beyond criticizing our schedule. That's just his latest thing...
Plenty of reporters have had a lot to say about it, and it's fair game to be critical of our schedule. Think fans are smart enough to tell the difference between someone fairly criticizing our soft schedule, and someone who seems to have an axe to grind...
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 12, 2017 11:54:36 GMT -5
Listen to Tyler. He's a great Hoya who tells no lies.... Haha... The part you guys seem to be missing is Goodman has gone way beyond criticizing our schedule. That's just his latest thing... Plenty of reporters have had a lot to say about it, and it's fair game to be critical of our schedule. Think fans are smart enough to tell the difference between someone fairly criticizing our soft schedule, and someone who seems to have an axe to grind... My guess is if everyone ignored Goodman and his criticism, and not respond on twitter with some not so nice remarks, he would move onto something else and forget about the program until there was something actually relevant to report. I get the sense he is getting a kick out of how fired up everyone is getting about his comments on the schedule
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 11:59:32 GMT -5
Listen to Tyler. He's a great Hoya who tells no lies.... Haha... The part you guys seem to be missing is Goodman has gone way beyond criticizing our schedule. That's just his latest thing... Plenty of reporters have had a lot to say about it, and it's fair game to be critical of our schedule. Think fans are smart enough to tell the difference between someone fairly criticizing our soft schedule, and someone who seems to have an axe to grind... My guess is if everyone ignored Goodman and his criticism, and not respond on twitter with some not so nice remarks, he would move onto something else and forget about the program until there was something actually relevant to report. I get the sense he is getting a kick out of how fired up everyone is getting about his comments on the schedule Maybe, but he's been taking shots way before people started to notice.. I'm all for ignoring him though
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 12:39:16 GMT -5
Listen to Tyler. He's a great Hoya who tells no lies.... Haha... The part you guys seem to be missing is Goodman has gone way beyond criticizing our schedule. That's just his latest thing... Plenty of reporters have had a lot to say about it, and it's fair game to be critical of our schedule. Think fans are smart enough to tell the difference between someone fairly criticizing our soft schedule, and someone who seems to have an axe to grind... My guess is if everyone ignored Goodman and his criticism, and not respond on twitter with some not so nice remarks, he would move onto something else and forget about the program until there was something actually relevant to report. I get the sense he is getting a kick out of how fired up everyone is getting about his comments on the schedule I think if it was attention he wanted, he would go after a school with a much larger fanbase. This is just odd. We aren't even good or relevant right now.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 12, 2017 12:45:10 GMT -5
Access restriction might not necessarily be active. A reporter may have the cell phone number of the coach who is now gone but not the new coach. The gatekeeper has also changed - the new coach brought in his own person and the person with whom the reporter had a relationship is gone. If the reporter’s resume is full of negative attacks on the program what is the incentive to grant the reporter special access? (Pretty much the bite the hand that feeds you argument from above)
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 12, 2017 13:30:08 GMT -5
There's a difference between calling a spade a spade and what Goodman is doing imo.... Probably. I haven't followed Goodman and was referring more to Etomic's WaPo criticism.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 12, 2017 13:33:30 GMT -5
It easier to pick a fight with a school with a small fanbase if you are a reporter. Less impact from backlash. Shows you the type of person he is and will most likely damage his career arc to some degree. ESPN has no alliance to the Big East any longer.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
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Post by TC on Dec 12, 2017 15:00:22 GMT -5
Are you referring to the posts implying he was cut off access from the program for lying about job offers and salaries to help his friend at the detriment of our program and having 4 anonymous Georgetown player sources in a hit piece against the then current coach? If not, I missed the posts your referring to and would like to know what has been done to Goodman to justify any sort of personal attacks. For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever e) probably made it harder to hire experienced assistants given that it basically told everyone money is no object I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule.
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