sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 15:08:30 GMT -5
For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule. Although, you could spin his criticism of the schedule and the schedule itself: All press is good press. In some ways, the awful schedule has kept us nationally relevant in time where our one the court ability doesn't warrant it. Is it better to be part of the conversation, even negatively, than completely forgotten? I'd say, definitely yes. To make a joke, you have to be paying attention, and people (especially Goodman) are clearly paying attention.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 12, 2017 15:30:39 GMT -5
Although, you could spin his criticism of the schedule and the schedule itself: All press is good press. In some ways, the awful schedule has kept us nationally relevant in time where our one the court ability doesn't warrant it. Is it better to be part of the conversation, even negatively, than completely forgotten? I'd say, definitely yes. To make a joke, you have to be paying attention, and people (especially Goodman) are clearly paying attention. If you think people relentlessly mocking your program as a wimpy paper tiger has positive recruiting effects, sure, let's go ahead and revel in this.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 15:39:35 GMT -5
Although, you could spin his criticism of the schedule and the schedule itself: All press is good press. In some ways, the awful schedule has kept us nationally relevant in time where our one the court ability doesn't warrant it. Is it better to be part of the conversation, even negatively, than completely forgotten? I'd say, definitely yes. To make a joke, you have to be paying attention, and people (especially Goodman) are clearly paying attention. If you think people relentlessly mocking your program as a wimpy paper tiger has positive recruiting effects, sure, let's go ahead and revel in this. As far as recruiting goes, it's better than no one caring about your program at all. Ultimately, making fun our our schedule is a step up from being made fun of for getting upset in the tournament and playing an offense the media finds boring. No one isn't going to come up here because our OOC is too weak. Players won't come here because no one is talking or cares about the program though.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2017 15:40:32 GMT -5
For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever e) probably made it harder to hire experienced assistants given that it basically told everyone money is no object I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule. I honestly don't remember it being that big of a deal at the time but I could definitely be wrong about it.. Wasn't JT3 making 3.5 million per year?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 12, 2017 16:25:21 GMT -5
I honestly don't remember it being that big of a deal at the time but I could definitely be wrong about it..Wasn't JT3 making 3.5 million per year? I also don't remember it being a big deal. While I do remember Mack's name briefly coming up, I don't remember anybody taking that seriously or impacting what salary we would offer in any way. As you note, JT3 was already making a ton (and still is...), so it's not like one Goodman article would make a big difference there. As far as what others have said on recruiting - you can bet that if Georgetown consistently makes an OOC schedule that is this horrendous, that it will play a role in negatively recruiting against us. Things like the Maui tournament, Atlantis, etc. definitely have some level of appeal to recruits. I am not saying it's the deciding factor (or even close to one), but it's something other schools will use against us if that becomes Ewing's thing. If we continue to have OOC schedules like this one, it will be very hard for Ewing to succeed in or get to the NCAA tournament, and once that negatively impacts us, it will cause changes - one way or another. Personally, I am hopeful that after this season we will go back to a more "normal" OOC than we have this year.
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Post by ewingitrust on Dec 12, 2017 16:31:51 GMT -5
Although, you could spin his criticism of the schedule and the schedule itself: All press is good press. In some ways, the awful schedule has kept us nationally relevant in time where our one the court ability doesn't warrant it. Is it better to be part of the conversation, even negatively, than completely forgotten? I'd say, definitely yes. To make a joke, you have to be paying attention, and people (especially Goodman) are clearly paying attention. If you think people relentlessly mocking your program as a wimpy paper tiger has positive recruiting effects, sure, let's go ahead and revel in this. Let the wins continue. I can't wait for the media write ups when we beat Cuse on Sat.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 12, 2017 16:46:59 GMT -5
I honestly don't remember it being that big of a deal at the time but I could definitely be wrong about it..Wasn't JT3 making 3.5 million per year? I also don't remember it being a big deal. While I do remember Mack's name briefly coming up, I don't remember anybody taking that seriously or impacting what salary we would offer in any way. As you note, JT3 was already making a ton (and still is...), so it's not like one Goodman article would make a big difference there. As far as what others have said on recruiting - you can bet that if Georgetown consistently makes an OOC schedule that is this horrendous, that it will play a role in negatively recruiting against us. Things like the Maui tournament, Atlantis, etc. definitely have some level of appeal to recruits. I am not saying it's the deciding factor (or even close to one), but it's something other schools will use against us if that becomes Ewing's thing. If we continue to have OOC schedules like this one, it will be very hard for Ewing to succeed in or get to the NCAA tournament, and once that negatively impacts us, it will cause changes - one way or another. Personally, I am hopeful that after this season we will go back to a more "normal" OOC than we have this year. Yea but that is if it continues, which is a whole different problem than the press around a single season OOC schedule.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 12, 2017 16:51:03 GMT -5
Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever e) probably made it harder to hire experienced assistants given that it basically told everyone money is no object I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule. I honestly don't remember it being that big of a deal at the time but I could definitely be wrong about it.. Wasn't JT3 making 3.5 million per year? In 2014, JT3 was paid $3,624,303 plus $47,317 in other compensation per IRS 990. He was the highest paid university employee. pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2016_08_EO/53-0196603_990_201506.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA%2F20171212%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20171212T214316Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=e0dd316033ef407c494048f5db613be4b844cae5ba45fa59eaaa6dd22ef8eee0
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 12, 2017 16:56:05 GMT -5
Yea but that is if it continues, which is a whole different problem than the press around a single season OOC schedule. I agree - let's hope it doesn't continue. Like others, I think Goodman is basically trolling for attention. It's weird, but who knows where his motivations lie.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Dec 12, 2017 17:24:35 GMT -5
Why are we talking about this putz when we could be talking about how SOFT the SUckers are? I mean really, some low level schlock from a failing network happens to have noticed that we have a weak OOC? Who cares. Focus on the fact that Boeheim's minions are so soft we'll be able to use them as this weekend.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2017 17:40:41 GMT -5
For the sake of argument, I'll agree that he lied about the 4 million dollar offer from Gtown.. How did that lie hurt Gtown? Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever e) probably made it harder to hire experienced assistants given that it basically told everyone money is no object I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/30220/next-georgetown-head-basketball-coach?page=93Pretty much as I remembered the conversations to be, no one on the board was up in arms about the news of this offer.. It actually reads more like folks liked the idea.. Tbh I only read until page 100 so maybe the outrage picked up later on in the thread.. Don't judge me for looking this up, I'm an empty nest golf addict living in CT so you have to know my life is a struggle right now..
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 12, 2017 18:04:59 GMT -5
If you think people relentlessly mocking your program as a wimpy paper tiger has positive recruiting effects, sure, let's go ahead and revel in this. Let the wins continue. I can't wait for the media write ups when we beat Cuse on Sat. If we are good enough to beat Cuse who seem like a decent team, then why are we playing the rest of these cupcakes?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 12, 2017 18:23:09 GMT -5
Let the wins continue. I can't wait for the media write ups when we beat Cuse on Sat. If we are good enough to beat Cuse who seem like a decent team, then why are we playing the rest of these cupcakes? I believe the theory is that by playing cupcakes, it enables the team to learn the offense and gain confidence. Without playing these cupcakes, the team would not be prepared to play a Syracuse. At least I guess that's the theory. . . Cuse down to 8 scholarship players but Boeheim never went deep into his bench anyway.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 12, 2017 18:53:31 GMT -5
If we are good enough to beat Cuse who seem like a decent team, then why are we playing the rest of these cupcakes? I believe the theory is that by playing cupcakes, it enables the team to learn the offense and gain confidence. Without playing these cupcakes, the team would not be prepared to play a Syracuse. At least I guess that's the theory. . . Cuse down to 8 scholarship players but Boeheim never went deep into his bench anyway. OK if you believe that theory then why have 2 more cupcakes after this game.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Dec 12, 2017 18:59:13 GMT -5
I believe the theory is that by playing cupcakes, it enables the team to learn the offense and gain confidence. Without playing these cupcakes, the team would not be prepared to play a Syracuse. At least I guess that's the theory. . . Cuse down to 8 scholarship players but Boeheim never went deep into his bench anyway. OK if you believe that theory then why have 2 more cupcakes after this game. Roll with it. There are dumber theories around here; see a fan site caused us to lose Waters. hm
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 12, 2017 19:05:52 GMT -5
I believe the theory is that by playing cupcakes, it enables the team to learn the offense and gain confidence. Without playing these cupcakes, the team would not be prepared to play a Syracuse. At least I guess that's the theory. . . Cuse down to 8 scholarship players but Boeheim never went deep into his bench anyway. OK if you believe that theory then why have 2 more cupcakes after this game. Hey, nowhere did I say I believe the theory! If I expand the theory, the Syracuse game will be a test for Ewing and the two more cupcakes after that game prior to the start of the Big East schedule will give him and the team a chance to work on the stuff they learned from the Syracuse game. At least that's consistent with the theory. . .
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 12, 2017 19:30:57 GMT -5
Let the wins continue. I can't wait for the media write ups when we beat Cuse on Sat. If we are good enough to beat Cuse who seem like a decent team, then why are we playing the rest of these cupcakes? In case you lose to Cuse, you need to eat a couple more cupcakes to work on things before Big east play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 8:43:57 GMT -5
Remember that this lie was smack dab in the middle of radio silence, and for a few days, was the only thing we knew about the Georgetown coaching situation. a) it hurt our reputation, basically saying that we are such a bad job opportunity that no one will take the job at 2x the market rate b) it set a public price on our job, and probably hurt us in negotations with Ewing and every other coach we were talking to, assuming the search committee bothered c) it made our search look even more hapless and the direction of the program aimless that we are throwing around money at people seemingly randomly that have no interest d) made Ewing look like a last resort option, behind Mack when I'm not sure they cared about Mack whatsoever e) probably made it harder to hire experienced assistants given that it basically told everyone money is no object I'd argue that one lie probably hurt our reputation inside the industry more than the schedule, and I *hate* the schedule. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/30220/next-georgetown-head-basketball-coach?page=93Pretty much as I remembered the conversations to be, no one on the board was up in arms about the news of this offer.. It actually reads more like folks liked the idea.. Tbh I only read until page 100 so maybe the outrage picked up later on in the thread.. Don't judge me for looking this up, I'm an empty nest golf addict living in CT so you have to know my life is a struggle right now.. Idk about here, but on social media folks hated the idea and were vocal about it... Plenty of people called Goodman out on it. Most thought it was a made up story, and It's been a running punchline since.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 13, 2017 9:34:20 GMT -5
Right - we liked the idea because we assumed that the search committee actually made this offer and was acting aggressively on outside candidates with no ties whatsoever to Georgetown. I personally loved the idea of us poaching Cooley. In retrospect, does anyone believe that it went down the way Goodman says? That we were throwing around $4M offers wildly to people with no ties whatsoever to Georgetown? Here's Thamel's article reaming our search, mid-search - he cites that we were rebuffed by Chris Mack. Where do you think Thamel got that from? www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/04/02/georgetown-coaching-search-hoyas-thompson
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 13, 2017 9:42:07 GMT -5
OK if you believe that theory then why have 2 more cupcakes after this game. Hey, nowhere did I say I believe the theory! If I expand the theory, the Syracuse game will be a test for Ewing and the two more cupcakes after that game prior to the start of the Big East schedule will give him and the team a chance to work on the stuff they learned from the Syracuse game. At least that's consistent with the theory. . . Here's the thing. Like every argument on the internet no one is going to change the other sides mind. No matter the results you can make an argument for either side. 1) Hoyas do great this year beat cuse, and have a good BE record. anti schedule people: See we didn't need to play this soft schedule we were good enough to play a real schedule. We only hurt ourselves in making the tournament or getting a better seed. not anti schedule people: See the schedule worked we gained confidence and worked out kinks and it resulted in good play by the time BE came around. 2) Hoyas do poorly this year get crushed in the BE antischedule people: See the schedule didn't work we weren't tested enough so we weren't prepared for the BE. not anti schedule people: See the schedule was justified we were never going to be good enough so padding the OOC record was the right move. No matter what the schedule argument will never be settled. The only way it really gets settled is if we end up 9-9 and miss the tournament because of poor SOS, but even then you could argue we only got to 9-9 because of the confidence we gained OOC and if we had lost several games in the OOC we would've done much worse because our confidence had been crushed.
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