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Post by professorhoya on Nov 26, 2017 13:02:11 GMT -5
Could not find game on tv so I came to this board yesterday evening and from the latest page on the game, I thought the Hoyas had lost the game. Went to yahoo sports and to my pleasant surprise found the Hoyas had won. I know this Richmond team is a bad team, but they were at home in front of an enthusiastic crowd based on playback. The team overcame a listless start( probably looking at opponents record and thinking name on their uniform would produce a victory), and Richmond players playing above their usual output. The question of whether an easy ooc schedule or tough ooc is a he best way to go for a young team , is still open. What I liked were the comments of Govan and Derrickson’s comments after the game, taking ownership of their listless start and heir reaction to Ewing’s halftime instructions. With the Richmond team playing the Hoyas close using a packed zone and trapping Govan and Derrickson, the Hoyas are bound to see that defense the rest of the ooc games especially Syracuse. They will be relying on two freshmen(Blair and Pickett) and two upperclassmen(Johnson and Mulmore) to hit the open 3pt shots. All are trying to prove to themselves and the team that they can consistently hit that shot. We all would like to see thes Hoyas playing and beating top 25 teams but reality tells us that they are not ready for that now. Richmond actually isn't as bad as they've looked. They've been missing athletic 6-0 guard Khwwn Fore with a stress fracture for most of the games. Yesterday was the first game he played over 21 minutes (28 min). He gives them 3 scoring options along with Buckingham and Golden. 6-10 260 lbs Golden is a load. He's scored 24 points twice and 26 points already. The only game he didn't do well was against Cincinnati because he was in foul trouble and only played 22 min.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 26, 2017 13:05:46 GMT -5
Please join us in the 2017-18 Georgetown basketball season. It’s much more enjoyable than combing through the KenPom archives to fbe her he last war, trust me. This whole line of posts got started with: This is the type of game our previous coach would have lost. I am not interested in re-litigating the past, but if someone says something that's just factually wrong I am going to comment on it. It would be factually wrong if the person had written "the type of game that our previous coach always lost" or "the type of game that our previous coach tended to lose" or even the "type of game that our previous coach lost more times than not". Those you could have shot down with statistics or real numbers to counter. But what the person you responded to actually stated was more of an opinion. It was more subjective, perhaps based on frustrations of the results of the prior two seasons. And one can't write that off as being factually off base unless III had won all of his early season games against cupcake opponents over his last few years. Which of course his teams did not. Now that doesn't mean with III as coach GTown would have lost this game last night either, but we can not be certain they would have walked away with a victory. So it all comes down to a battle of opinions, right?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Nov 26, 2017 13:07:48 GMT -5
Great teaching moment by Pat: “They had a big three” said UR head guy Chris Mooney before looking at his stat sheet, of the game’s dispositive bucket, “by Pickett there, number one. He made it right at the end of the shot clock (versus) a good contest”. Interestingly enough that shot may not have happened, as Pickett prior to that was not locked in defensively, leading to Richmond targeting him. Ewing “took him out of the game, then I brought him back in, and he hit a big three. That was a key, key shot for us”. BTW, Pickett has a little Freshman Otto in him on the offensive end. Wish he would get any Otto in him on the defensive end, sheesh. Work in progress... Ewing on him...
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 26, 2017 13:12:05 GMT -5
We won because the players who were lost last year are now playing with vigor. Mulmore and Johnson seem more confident. Pleased so far with what Pat has done, especially without Pryor and Peak. Mulmore was very very good last night, 8 assists to 1 turnover is a nice line.. The 3 Johnson hit from the corner at 63-66 was huge.. It was good seeing both compete very well against more comparable competition.. Not sure why you're mentioning Peak & Pryor, they were never going to be part of this team.. I'm guessing he is probably pointing out that last season those were the only two guys who played with a consistent pulse on offense and Ewing is relying on guys whom the fanbase in general had little faith in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 14:13:05 GMT -5
This whole line of posts got started with: I am not interested in re-litigating the past, but if someone says something that's just factually wrong I am going to comment on it. It would be factually wrong if the person had written "the type of game that our previous coach always lost" or "the type of game that our previous coach tended to lose" or even the "type of game that our previous coach lost more times than not". Those you could have shot down with statistics or real numbers to counter. But what the person you responded to actually stated was more of an opinion. It was more subjective, perhaps based on frustrations of the results of the prior two seasons. And one can't write that off as being factually off base unless III had won all of his early season games against cupcake opponents over his last few years. Which of course his teams did not. Now that doesn't mean with III as coach GTown would have lost this game last night either, but we can not be certain they would have walked away with a victory. So it all comes down to a battle of opinions, right? Not directed at you MCI but It's not Pat vs JT3... It's Georgetown vs our next opponent. This stuff is old and tired already... Move on people, seriously...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 14:57:11 GMT -5
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 26, 2017 15:11:13 GMT -5
What's getting lost in all the shuffle between the present and the past is that the majority of us on this board were looking forward to this game as a true indication as to where we are as a team. True? We won against a team that was playing at home in front of what must have been an enthusiastic crowd. To see our guys persevere and play with such confidence and poise, it was a answer to a big question we all had. Now, we just have to keep growing, gelling, and really working on our defense.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 26, 2017 16:22:17 GMT -5
Observations from the Game Against Richmond--1st Half (Again, thanks to the poster that made the game available to the masses) -Quality win! -Love Ewing's demeanor on the sidelines -My prediction is that we have the nucleus of a solid team, guys who are not afraid to shoot the rock -proud of our guys and the way they played, even in the first half. They hung in there, fought back to recapture the lead. One of the things the announcer said a couple of times--and I agree--this team has some good shooters who are not afraid to shoot it. -Good, solid first half by Johnson. Didn't hear much about this in the post-game commentary on this board -Dare to say, Picket has got some Otto in him. If he stays around for a couple more years, I can see him being the go-to guy. -This team can be very good, but needs to play with more tenacity, no loafing around, period! I want to see our guys contesting every shot, making the opposing team pay for even trying to put up any junk. No easy baskets. We have to tighten up, close those back doors. Hopefully, this will come with time.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 26, 2017 18:58:14 GMT -5
I'm sure Govan's account of Coach Ewing's halftime discussion is the PG heavily edited version of the real conversation.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 26, 2017 19:54:22 GMT -5
I didn't get to see the game -- seriously, just streaming? -- since I was I out with the family. But I will say I'm happy we managed a road win -- which is the most impressive part of this win -- even if it was close.
It's not a shock their Princeton ripped apart our man defense -- that's exactly what it does. Our team is not talented defensively yet -- it needs a ton of work. (For all those wondering where the back door cuts went over the years, most of that had to do with the fact that no one played aggressive man to man against us or at least not very often). Our lack of any zone meant that we weren't going to be good here. And honestly, while I know people love tough man to man, this team is better suited to zone in a lot of ways.
If you are looking for concerning signs -- the fact that we only won by six and shot 10-18 on 3s while they shot 7-27 is a pretty good one. Lot of work still to be done.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 26, 2017 22:01:41 GMT -5
I didn't get to see the game -- seriously, just streaming? -- since I was I out with the family. But I will say I'm happy we managed a road win -- which is the most impressive part of this win -- even if it was close. It's not a shock their Princeton ripped apart our man defense -- that's exactly what it does. Our team is not talented defensively yet -- it needs a ton of work. (For all those wondering where the back door cuts went over the years, most of that had to do with the fact that no one played aggressive man to man against us or at least not very often). Our lack of any zone meant that we weren't going to be good here. And honestly, while I know people love tough man to man, this team is better suited to zone in a lot of ways. If you are looking for concerning signs -- the fact that we only won by six and shot 10-18 on 3s while they shot 7-27 is a pretty good one. Lot of work still to be done. I have to say, I go back and forth on us using zone and here's where I end up. I'm not sure one is particularly more effective than the other so go ahead Pat if you prefer man. It has the added benefit of keeping these guys engaged on defense. I kind of think we're headed towards not being any worse on defense than the last few years. Faint praise for sure, but I would rather bet long term on a long athletic team getting a few steals than taking my chances with the 2-3 foulfest.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 26, 2017 22:31:02 GMT -5
I didn't get to see the game -- seriously, just streaming? -- since I was I out with the family. But I will say I'm happy we managed a road win -- which is the most impressive part of this win -- even if it was close. It's not a shock their Princeton ripped apart our man defense -- that's exactly what it does. Our team is not talented defensively yet -- it needs a ton of work. (For all those wondering where the back door cuts went over the years, most of that had to do with the fact that no one played aggressive man to man against us or at least not very often). Our lack of any zone meant that we weren't going to be good here. And honestly, while I know people love tough man to man, this team is better suited to zone in a lot of ways. If you are looking for concerning signs -- the fact that we only won by six and shot 10-18 on 3s while they shot 7-27 is a pretty good one. Lot of work still to be done. I have to say, I go back and forth on us using zone and here's where I end up. I'm not sure one is particularly more effective than the other so go ahead Pat if you prefer man. It has the added benefit of keeping these guys engaged on defense. I kind of think we're headed towards not being any worse on defense than the last few years. Faint praise for sure, but I would rather bet long term on a long athletic team getting a few steals than taking my chances with the 2-3 foulfest. Yeah, I have no issues with it. I do hope that we have more than one defensive look long term, and I do think that our players are not overly suited to man to man. That said, I'm fine with teaching fundamentals in man to man and learning one defense first, and I'm fine with Ewing building a system for fundamentally better talent than he has now. I'm not all that concerned with results this year. That said, Ewing has never coached a zone, and likely never played in one, unless it was in high school, so I do wonder if that ever shows up. EDIT: Been corrected, apparently Big John coached some zone back in the day.
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Nov 26, 2017 22:48:05 GMT -5
Coach Orr ought to be able to teach the zone pretty well...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 22:56:26 GMT -5
I didn't get to see the game -- seriously, just streaming? -- since I was I out with the family. But I will say I'm happy we managed a road win -- which is the most impressive part of this win -- even if it was close. It's not a shock their Princeton ripped apart our man defense -- that's exactly what it does. Our team is not talented defensively yet -- it needs a ton of work. (For all those wondering where the back door cuts went over the years, most of that had to do with the fact that no one played aggressive man to man against us or at least not very often). Our lack of any zone meant that we weren't going to be good here. And honestly, while I know people love tough man to man, this team is better suited to zone in a lot of ways. If you are looking for concerning signs -- the fact that we only won by six and shot 10-18 on 3s while they shot 7-27 is a pretty good one. Lot of work still to be done. 4evr pointed out that you can still watch it if you follow the link. The game starts around 5 mins into the video.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Nov 26, 2017 23:03:20 GMT -5
From what I've seen so far, I think that Patrick will demand his guys do things the right way on the court, even the little things. Glad that he is making these guys run more than they ever have, that he let's them have it at halftime, calls timeouts the minute he sees a problem, etc etc. That said, I am not sure what to make of the Richmond game. I watched it on Fios and was not overly impressed with the performance against a below average team ( not awful like the prior opponents, of course.) Does that mean we are doomed...of course not..its one early season game. But honestly, I had hoped we would play a bit better, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Regarding zone, the previous poster said Ewing didn't play in zone defenses since HS. Actually, the Hoyas played plenty of zone when Patrick was at Georgetown. Pops played a lot of different and innovative zones..both presses and in the halfcourt. In fact, his teams played zone very well. They obviously were strong in man defense as well.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 27, 2017 0:11:36 GMT -5
I’ve been intending on writing a longer post with thoughts on the game, which would have included defense but I haven’t had time. Yesterday, after a stretch of bad defense, Ewing did change them from man to man to zone for a few possessions. Overall, the zone didn’t look very good but that’s not surprising because it was really awful last year too and the personnel hasn’t changed enough to make a big difference.
I was surprised to see zone. Given that is largely absent from the NBA, I wasn’t expecting to see it. That said, I’m glad that Ewing is exploring options and possibilities. With this group, I’m not sure zone is the answer without major improvement though.
One easier way I think the defense could improve would be to improve help defense rotations. There were several instances where the dribble drive penetration was successful in part because of poor help defense. In one possession Govan could have slid over to the paint to help, yet he went the opposite way for no obvious reason. Our rotations in this regard really need help - a great zone defense would help here obviously but I just don’t think we’ve got one right now.
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dense
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2017 3:47:35 GMT -5
Thats the one thing that I have loved so far from Ewing, if something is not working he quickly tries something else. he doesnt do that if we just run our stuff it will change crap.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 27, 2017 6:55:39 GMT -5
Thats the one thing that I have loved so far from Ewing, if something is not working he quickly tries something else. he doesnt do that if we just run our stuff it will change crap. Yes, it's early, but from the looks of it, Ewing doesn't do the stubborn "try, try again" crap.
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aristides
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Post by aristides on Nov 27, 2017 9:11:45 GMT -5
A couple observations: I was disappointed in Govan's defense that game. I think he can and should be more aggressive and physical down low. Maybe he is worried about getting in foul trouble, maybe the matchup was tough for him; I don't know, but he should be more of a presence in the post.
I thought there were times the Hoyas should have made an extra pass on offense and moved the ball around more. The freshmen, Blair and Pickett, seemed the most guilty of this. And I'd like to see Johnson get more aggressive. I know I'm a bit of a homer on Johnson but good things seem to happen when he is attacking the basket and I think the numbers support it.
Road games are always tough. They walked away with the win while learning about what they need to work on. Good game!
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 27, 2017 10:23:17 GMT -5
A couple observations: I was disappointed in Govan's defense that game. I think he can and should be more aggressive and physical down low. Maybe he is worried about getting in foul trouble, maybe the matchup was tough for him; I don't know, but he should be more of a presence in the post. I thought there were times the Hoyas should have made an extra pass on offense and moved the ball around more. The freshmen, Blair and Pickett, seemed the most guilty of this. And I'd like to see Johnson get more aggressive. I know I'm a bit of a homer on Johnson but good things seem to happen when he is attacking the basket and I think the numbers support it. Road games are always tough. They walked away with the win while learning about what they need to work on. Good game! Really that's it. If Govan helps out for others mistakes he's going to foul out early. And Marcus is too small and gets manhandled by guys like Golden and Radwan Bakkali (Jacksonville) when he shifts to the five. The best thing we can do is try to accelerate Sodoms Development so that he can be a Mutombo type eraser and rebounder quickly. This is the one glaring weakness on this team, especially when we hit big east play. No serviceable backup at center.
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