Expectations for Ewing / Benchmarks

[TC]

What are your expectations for Ewing? Define your benchmarks here.

Mine are this - an NCAA basketball coach's goal should be to make the tournament. A successful year is qualifying for the tournament as an at large - or regular season success and winning the conference tournament. I don't consider flukey tourney runs coupled with a poor regular season a success.

My expectation would be for him to make the tournament by year 3. I think next year is a wash, and I'll basically write it off. Year 2 should be some improvement - a successful year 2 would be getting to .500 or close to .500 on in conference. Year 3, make the tournament as an at large or successful regular season conference champion, or else - that's the benchmark we established with JT3 - miss the tournament 2 years with your own team, that's a failure.

I'm interested to see what other people's benchmarks are given what I think are unfair expectations laid on JT3.

[Filo]

Apr 4, 2017 7:53:58 GMT -5 TC said:

What are your expectations for Ewing? Define your benchmarks here.

Mine are this - an NCAA basketball coach's goal should be to make the tournament. A successful year is qualifying for the tournament as an at large - or regular season success and winning the conference tournament. I don't consider flukey tourney runs coupled with a poor regular season a success.

My expectation would be for him to make the tournament by year 3. I think next year is a wash, and I'll basically write it off. Year 2 should be some improvement - a successful year 2 would be getting to .500 or close to .500 on in conference. Year 3, make the tournament as an at large or successful regular season conference champion, or else - that's the benchmark we established with JT3 - miss the tournament 2 years with your own team, that's a failure.

I'm interested to see what other people's benchmarks are given what I think are unfair expectations laid on JT3.

Those are pretty close to mine. It may take some time to get this program straightened out, given how depleted the roster is right now, but I absolutely want to see some improvement by Year 2.

As an aside, and I don't mean to hijack this discussion, if your benchmark is basically making the tournament and JTIII was unable to do that 3 of the past 4 years, how were the expectations unfair?

[TC]

Apr 4, 2017 7:58:14 GMT -5 Filo said:

As an aside, and I don't mean to hijack this discussion, if your benchmark is basically making the tournament and JTIII was unable to do that 3 of the past 4 years, how were the expectations unfair?

They centered around tournament success, which I think is basically a crapshoot. Missing the tournament 3 out of 4 years was obviously a disaster.

[professorhoya]

NCAA tourney in next two years
Out of first weekend in first 4 years
Sweet sixteen in 5 years

[hoyalove4ever]

I have said it before and will say it again: we will not have a fair or reasonably accurate evaluation of this coach, or any coach, for at least eight to ten years. You need to recruit several cycles of players and let those players' careers develop to see what you have.

Having said that, I want to see the Hoyas recruiting and signing really good high-major players. I would like to see the team working its way back toward the top of the Big East and into the NCAAs. I am not sure that is a two or three year objective for a new coach. Also, I do not expect linear progression every year. For instance, year four may be worse than year three, and that is nothing to freak out about.

Basically, in five years, I would like to see the staff recruiting elite players, competing toward the top of the Big East, and competing for NCAA bids. I expect there to be ups and downs, but would like to see more of the former than the latter.

[bostonfan]

Longer term (3 years and beyond) expectations would be to be a NCAA tournament team pretty much every year, with runs into the sweet 16 and beyond every 3-4 years. To also be in the top 3 teams in the Big East pretty much every year. Things happen where you might have an off year here and there (kids get hurt, a big time recruit turns out to be a bust and things like that) but if the program is built and run correctly these are reasonable expectations. Look at UConn this year with all those injuries, but I think that program is heading in a direction where they will be good every year

I would like to see them have a winning season next year and at least qualify for the NIT. They play enough fairly easy OOC games where, even with a somewhat depleted roster, they should still be able to win those games with a renew energy and attention to details. It means winning some conference games and maybe winning one or two other OOC games where they are not favored.

In year two I think they should be in, or at worst on the cusp of making the NCAA tournament. Things change really quickly in college basketball these days with grad transfers and even transfers that sit out a year that if Patrick can get the right staff together and close some deals on good players he should be very competitive by year 2.

[Elvado]

Fair or not, I believe Patrick will have the team in the tournament by 2019.

[CTHoya08]

Apr 4, 2017 8:07:28 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

NCAA tourney in next two years
Out of first weekend in first 4 years
Sweet sixteen in 5 years

I'm very curious to see how we make it past the first weekend in year 4 but don't make the Sweet Sixteen until year 5.

I'd like to see an NIT bid by year two, and into the NCAAs by year three.

[TC]

Apr 4, 2017 8:42:03 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

Apr 4, 2017 8:07:28 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

NCAA tourney in next two years
Out of first weekend in first 4 years
Sweet sixteen in 5 years

I'm very curious to see how we make it past the first weekend in year 4 but don't make the Sweet Sixteen until year 5.

It's a really long first weekend in year 4.

[lurkerhoya]

Apr 4, 2017 8:40:41 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Fair or not, I believe Patrick will have the team in the tournament by 2019.

Agreed, or at least he should.

To the extent next year is a wash, there is till talent on this team. I get the roster depletion issue, but aren't PEs two giant upsides here that he's game-ready and the potential recruiting uptick in the immediate short term? Don't all of these expectations go unrealistically high if the next month brings Waters back and who knows what else for this season?

I think the fact of th matter is, if PE is as advertised, he should be taking an under-talented team at least into the top half of our conference (which would mean NCAAs) in his second year.

[drquigley]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Picture this. First game of the season against major competition. Hoyas undermanned due to transfers and late recruiting come out and play with passion. Stifling man to man defense, crashing boards, forcing turnovers. Govan and Derrickson playing with enthusiasm and attacking the paint. A bunch of fast break baskets (remember those?) and an offense that features less back door cuts and more high ball screens and cuts to the hoop. And lots of 3's. Do we win? Probably not and probably not for the first 1-2 years. But suddenly the Hoyas will be fun to watch and maybe, just maybe, will attract the kind of attention that draws more fans and top recruits. After the last two years that's all I want and all I think any of us should expect. And something tells me that if we do this then the wins and NCAA tournament appearances will eventually come.

[jwp91]

Apr 4, 2017 10:09:10 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Picture this. First game of the season against major competition. Hoyas undermanned due to transfers and late recruiting come out and play with passion. Stifling man to man defense, crashing boards, forcing turnovers. Govan and Derrickson playing with enthusiasm and attacking the paint. A bunch of fast break baskets (remember those?) and an offense that features less back door cuts and more high ball screens and cuts to the hoop. And lots of 3's. Do we win? Probably not and probably not for the first 1-2 years. But suddenly the Hoyas will be fun to watch and maybe, just maybe, will attract the kind of attention that draws more fans and top recruits. After the last two years that's all I want and all I think any of us should expect. And something tells me that if we do this then the wins and NCAA tournament appearances will eventually come.

+1,000,000

[the_way]

Give him a 5 year grace period.

Frank Martin? 5 years.

Jay Wright? 4 years.

Coach K? 4 years.

Give him time. It takes time.

[FrazierFanatic]

Yeah 2 years to make the NCAA's is almost assuredly a pipe dream. Not only are we starting with a seriously depleted roster, we are also way behind for 2018 recruiting, and just may not be able to make it up.

3 years may even be a stretch, but at least is a little more realistic. 4 years should be a definite.

[TC]

Apr 4, 2017 10:17:05 GMT -5 the_way said:

Give him a 5 year grace period.

Frank Martin? 5 years.

Jay Wright? 4 years.

Coach K? 4 years.

Give him time. It takes time.

And at the end of 5 years, what do you expect? What's a success? What's a failure?

[TC]

Just a reminder that we fired a coach that took over a roster not much better this one and he put us in the Sweet 16 year 2, the Final Four year 3.

[hoyacane11]

Tournament in 4 years.
I'm more concerned about how quickly he can get our guys to playing Hoya defense and playing with heart every game all game. He does that, we make the tournament by year 3.

If he can get Peak to stay and Waters to come, it may be next season.

[hoyacane11]

Apr 4, 2017 10:34:43 GMT -5 TC said:

Just a reminder that we fired a coach that took over a roster not much better this one and he put us in the Sweet 16 year 2, the Final Four year 3.

He also had Hibbert, Wallace, and Green. Those three alone make that team much better than this one.

[Jack]

Apr 4, 2017 10:24:42 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Yeah 2 years to make the NCAA's is almost assuredly a pipe dream. Not only are we starting with a seriously depleted roster, we are also way behind for 2018 recruiting, and just may not be able to make it up.

3 years may even be a stretch, but at least is a little more realistic. 4 years should be a definite.

68 teams make the tournament, including 7 from our conference this year. I am not saying I will ready to change the coaching staff if it takes a couple of years to get up to the top of the conference, but is it really insane to think that the returning roster and a well-placed transfer or two could be as good as this year's Providence squad and sneak in as an 11 seed? Is a lineup with Derrickson, Govan, Mulmore, Mosely, and Walker, with Johnson, Campbell and Agau off the bench really so much less talented than what Marquette was putting on the floor this year? "Expecting" to make the tournament with that team would be foolish, not to mention unfair, but hoping for some improvement and sneaking in for a game or two wouldn't be the strangest development ever, right?

[hoyacane11]

Apr 4, 2017 10:36:54 GMT -5 Jack said:

Apr 4, 2017 10:24:42 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Yeah 2 years to make the NCAA's is almost assuredly a pipe dream. Not only are we starting with a seriously depleted roster, we are also way behind for 2018 recruiting, and just may not be able to make it up.

3 years may even be a stretch, but at least is a little more realistic. 4 years should be a definite.

68 teams make the tournament, including 7 from our conference this year. I am not saying I will ready to change the coaching staff if it takes a couple of years to get up to the top of the conference, but is it really insane to think that the returning roster and a well-placed transfer or two could be as good as this year's Providence squad and sneak in as an 11 seed? Is a lineup with Derrickson, Govan, Mulmore, Mosely, and Walker, with Johnson, Campbell and Agau off the bench really so much less talented than what Marquette was putting on the floor this year? "Expecting" to make the tournament with that team would be foolish, not to mention unfair, but hoping for some improvement and sneaking in for a game or two wouldn't be the strangest development ever, right?

And what exactly have Mosely, Johnson, Campbell, and Agua done in a Hoya uniform of note??? Most of those guys would have never received a scholarship on a good Hoya team. Nothing says promising about them. Talent wise, we're pretty much starting over.