TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Apr 4, 2017 10:44:10 GMT -5
You could have said the same thing about Bowman, Owens, Ross, Reed, and Cook in 2004.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 4, 2017 10:44:12 GMT -5
Roster returning: Derrickson, Govan, Johnson, Mosely, Mulmore, Campbell, Agau, Mourning (maybe), and Walker.
With the transfer & 5th year route, it is possible and frankly expected that we should never bottom out the way St. Johns & Depaul did. Those are my first two year expectations: Be competitive & improve. I also think you will see some roster turnover as you have to remember III's first class which largely flopped in '05 with Egerson, Thorton, SPann, Guibunda. The coach needs to recruit his guys. Our frontcourt is passable for next year if it stays in tact. Our back court is another story. I hope he can get some solid pieces for next year along with building a foundation for the '18 & '19 recruiting classes. We should be in the tourney consistently starting in year three. You gotta remember that the tourney bubble is doughboy soft ever since they expanded it to 68. K State, USC, Wake & Provy were first four and frankly that was one of the better first fours in awhile. Their RPI's were: 57, 41, 39 & 56.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,411
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Post by Jack on Apr 4, 2017 10:46:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I am not looking to defend the current roster and agree that we should hope for improved talent, but plenty of teams have received at-large bids with less talent than the guys who will be wearing blue and gray next year. A longish rebuilding process is acceptable if progress is shown, but that does not mean that we must abandon all hope until 2020.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 10:53:49 GMT -5
Honestly, I am not looking to defend the current roster and agree that we should hope for improved talent, but plenty of teams have received at-large bids with less talent than the guys who will be wearing blue and gray next year. A longish rebuilding process is acceptable if progress is shown, but that does not mean that we must abandon all hope until 2020. Not in this conference.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 4, 2017 10:54:24 GMT -5
68 teams make the tournament, including 7 from our conference this year. I am not saying I will ready to change the coaching staff if it takes a couple of years to get up to the top of the conference, but is it really insane to think that the returning roster and a well-placed transfer or two could be as good as this year's Providence squad and sneak in as an 11 seed? Is a lineup with Derrickson, Govan, Mulmore, Mosely, and Walker, with Johnson, Campbell and Agau off the bench really so much less talented than what Marquette was putting on the floor this year? "Expecting" to make the tournament with that team would be foolish, not to mention unfair, but hoping for some improvement and sneaking in for a game or two wouldn't be the strangest development ever, right? And what exactly have Mosely, Johnson, Campbell, and Agua done in a Hoya uniform of note??? Most of those guys would have never received a scholarship on a good Hoya team. Nothing says promising about them. Talent wise, we're pretty much starting over. Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 10:55:05 GMT -5
You could have said the same thing about Bowman, Owens, Ross, Reed, and Cook in 2004. No sir, Bowman was a contributor and brought a lot of energy on offense and defense. Compare the stars he played with to our returning top players. It's not close, and our top 2 returning players don't even attempt to play defense. Good try though.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Apr 4, 2017 10:57:03 GMT -5
1st Year- above .500 Record 2nd Year- NIT 3rd Year- NCAA
If by Year 3 there is not an NCAA invite, the program is headed in the wrong direction.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 10:58:34 GMT -5
And what exactly have Mosely, Johnson, Campbell, and Agua done in a Hoya uniform of note??? Most of those guys would have never received a scholarship on a good Hoya team. Nothing says promising about them. Talent wise, we're pretty much starting over. Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve. Combined those guys probably average 15 pts a game, none of them do a good job of creating for others. They're all pretty bad on defense, and neither one of them are a threat. We have 2 guys returning who are good contributors to this team. I hate to say it, but the guys you mentioned are simply bodies. If they all left the team today, none of them would be missed.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 4, 2017 11:00:08 GMT -5
And what exactly have Mosely, Johnson, Campbell, and Agua done in a Hoya uniform of note??? Most of those guys would have never received a scholarship on a good Hoya team. Nothing says promising about them. Talent wise, we're pretty much starting over. Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve. I would like to have a sip or puff of whatever you are treating yourself to.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 11:02:40 GMT -5
Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve. I would like to have a sip or puff of whatever you are treating yourself to. lol, I'd like a sip too.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,775
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2017 11:09:58 GMT -5
I'm not going to set a benchmark based on wins/losses/BET success/NCAA success at this point.
I don't want to see opposing players' post-game comments about how the Hoyas are lazy defensively and don't care about working hard.
I want to see a faster paced offense. I want to see aggressive defense. I want to see backcourt pressure. I want to see rebounding dominance. I want to see diminishing unforced turnovers.
If we do those things, we'll have the type of success that is reflected in wins, March success in New York City and NCAA long-term success.
My benchmark? I want to be able to watch a Hoya game and not count turnovers for amusement, but instead enjoy watching exciting, competitive basketball without spending half of the game with my head in my hands and reaching for a consoling bourbon.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 4, 2017 11:11:49 GMT -5
We had two guys who could create last year and neither were point guards. If Patrick can get a 5th year point and hopefully a freshman point, those "bodies" as you put it start to produce more.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 4, 2017 11:15:03 GMT -5
Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve. I would like to have a sip or puff of whatever you are treating yourself to. It's called being optimistic. Maybe you should try it some time. Doesn't require mind altering substances to be positive.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 4, 2017 11:17:53 GMT -5
Moseley - Freshman. Showed lots of poise. Can pass well. Solid on defense. Needs to work on finishing. Lots of room for improvement. Johnson - Highly athletic. Improved last year. Will his confidence make the jump for him to be effective at all times on the court. Think Aaron Bowen. Campbell - Solid role player. Allows other guards to rest. Agau - down low banger. Only big that fights for rebounds. High energy. Has skills including a jump shot and dribble drive.] They may not be NBA guys but they're all solid basketball players and can improve. Combined those guys probably average 15 pts a game, none of them do a good job of creating for others. They're all pretty bad on defense, and neither one of them are a threat. We have 2 guys returning who are good contributors to this team. I hate to say it, but the guys you mentioned are simply bodies. If they all left the team today, none of them would be missed. And no one improves year after year? They are also Hoyas. It doesn't hurt to believe rather then just ting on everything that has to do with the program. Of those 4, Moseley is the only one required to create for others and he was only a Freshman...plenty of room for improvement. Also Agau, Johnson, and Moseley are not bad on defense, they're not incredible but they're average. Take off your anti-JT3 blinders and realize that we have players with skills, even if they didn't result in wins last year.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 4, 2017 11:22:33 GMT -5
I don't like listing expectations because I'm a very positive person and will support the team/coach no matter what. I just want to see continued improvement over the next few years.
That being said, because I'm so delusional I really don't think the rebuild will take very long. I don't think we can make accurate predictions until we see what the roster looks like, but I don't think the current roster is as devoid of talent as people are painting it.
I was a proponent of JT3 but his biggest weakness was motivation of players. With a new coach I think we can be remarkably better as early as this year.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 11:25:58 GMT -5
Combined those guys probably average 15 pts a game, none of them do a good job of creating for others. They're all pretty bad on defense, and neither one of them are a threat. We have 2 guys returning who are good contributors to this team. I hate to say it, but the guys you mentioned are simply bodies. If they all left the team today, none of them would be missed. And no one improves year after year? They are also Hoyas. It doesn't hurt to believe rather then just Editedting on everything that has to do with the program. Of those 4, Moseley is the only one required to create for others and he was only a Freshman...plenty of room for improvement. Also Agau, Johnson, and Moseley are not bad on defense, they're not incredible but they're average. Take off your anti-JT3 blinders and realize that we have players with skills, even if they didn't result in wins last year. Funny, how much did Campbell and Johnson improve? How is no one else "required" to create for others? That's plain silly. Campbell is a point guard too, and small forwards can create for others as well. Players are required to do whatever it takes to win. Why did Pryor and Peak lead the team in rebounding? What were Govan and Hayes "required" to do?
Yes we have players with skills, but their names are not Campbell, Johnson, and Agau. That skill would have resulted in some offensive and defensive numbers. It didn't. The numbers were plain offensive.
I'm just being realistic about what Ewing will be inheriting, too bad if that offends you, and trust me, it's not much.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 4, 2017 11:36:45 GMT -5
And no one improves year after year? They are also Hoyas. It doesn't hurt to believe rather then just Editedting on everything that has to do with the program. Of those 4, Moseley is the only one required to create for others and he was only a Freshman...plenty of room for improvement. Also Agau, Johnson, and Moseley are not bad on defense, they're not incredible but they're average. Take off your anti-JT3 blinders and realize that we have players with skills, even if they didn't result in wins last year. Funny, how much did Campbell and Johnson improve? How is no one else "required" to create for others? That's plain silly. Campbell is a point guard too, and small forwards can create for others as well. Players are required to do whatever it takes to win. Why did Pryor and Peak lead the team in rebounding? What were Govan and Hayes "required" to do?
Yes we have players with skills, but their names are not Campbell, Johnson, and Agau. That skill would have resulted in some offensive and defensive numbers. It didn't. The numbers were plain offensive.
I'm just being realistic about what Ewing will be inheriting, too bad if that offends you, and trust me, it's not much.
I haven't supported Campbell one bit today. I called him a role player, which is what he is. I hope he improves but it hasn't been evident so far. Johnson has definitely improved. He was clearly a project when he first stepped on campus and had the opportunity for quality minutes last year. He's also improved every year since we've started watching him (including HS), so I'm optimistic he will get better. He also has a high energy (second highest after Pryor last year), which is something we need and that Ewing can use. Agau was our 3rd C and backup PF. 4.5pts/4.3reb in 15 minutes for a guy still getting to full speed after a big injury is hopeful. A point guard is required to create for others. It would be nice if forwards can as well but very few are advanced enough to both be effective scoring and distributing. I do agree that Campbell and Johnson are on the lower end of the skill range of our players but I believe they can improve. This isn't the NBA. Most teams aren't made up of fully developed players who can dominate the court at all times. I'm also realistic about what Ewing is inheriting and that is D1 basketball players. Not all stars, but solid players. I also don't expect the guys that were literally the 8th-10th guys on the rotation to be filling up the stat sheet. The only thing that offends me is people insinuating I must be on substances to support players on our roster and see their positives.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 4, 2017 11:55:07 GMT -5
Those guys have done close to nothing here. They're d-1 players, but they really shouldn't be at Georgetown, and if III could recruit, they wouldn't be.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Apr 4, 2017 12:00:29 GMT -5
I want (in roughly this order):
Winning seasons. Competitive scheduling. Conference dominance (top four finish more often than not). Conference tournament dominance (playing Friday night more often than not). Regular NCAA bids (roughly 3 out of every 4 years, post-recovery) -- this should work itself out with the above three. Deep NCAA runs (roughly 1 out of every 3 years, post-recovery).
Id like to see a Final Four run in the next ten years.
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paranoia2
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 847
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Post by paranoia2 on Apr 4, 2017 12:01:49 GMT -5
Couple big IF's but 1) it waters ends up at Georgetown 2) Mourning returns and a late recruit-graduate transfer of note appears
The Hoyas could sneak into the big dance next year.
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