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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 5, 2017 20:09:08 GMT -5
Depaul & St. John's I can see. Marquette & Butler hopefully we can scrap with, but only have a punchers chance with Creighton. I disagree, the Big East is a BEast this year What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 20:49:45 GMT -5
Depaul & St. John's I can see. Marquette & Butler hopefully we can scrap with, but only have a punchers chance with Creighton. I disagree, the Big East is a BEast this year What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists. They bring back their leading scorer, who's unanimous 1st team All BE & another double digit scorer, who's the BE DefPOY... and other pieces of a 25-win team. Add a top-25 recruiting class (3 4* kids) & that Suarez kid who we were after & Joseph (who is still battling injuries), and they've got a full roster. Their backcourt is terrific -- and while their frontcourt may be untested at this point, there are a lot of good pieces to choose from. They're picked 5th in the preseason poll, but that just goes to show how tough the conference is going to be again. I think they are the last team in that top group. I'm not sold on St Johns, Marquette, or Butler (at least, any as surefire tourney teams)
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 6, 2017 10:33:26 GMT -5
What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists. Using stats like average points per game is not always useful, but let's use this logic on Georgetown: What so great about Georgetown? They lose starters Peak, Pryor, sometimes-starter Bradley Hayes, transfer Akoy Agau, Tre Campbell, and Reggie Cameron. That's their 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 10th leading scorers. They also lose their leading rebounder in Pryor (though Govan was tied in rebounds per game), they lost a few seniors in their rotations, and a few other high-rotation guys like Agau. Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class. They have one top 100 guy in Jamarko Pickett who may get minutes, but no surefire 4 or 5 star guys. We don't even know if some of them, like Sodom, are even prepared to play more than a couple of minutes a game. It's always easy to rip on other teams, but it's important to remember that without looking at this in a biased manner, we are really in pretty weak shape, too. I am not saying we won't be better than expected if certain guys improve, but a LOT of good things need to happen for us to be competitive in the Big East, and it's more likely than not that these things won't happen. But, as I've said many times, I would be thrilled to be wrong.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 6, 2017 11:35:45 GMT -5
What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists. Using stats like average points per game is not always useful, but let's use this logic on Georgetown: What so great about Georgetown? They lose starters Peak, Pryor, sometimes-starter Bradley Hayes, transfer Akoy Agau, Tre Campbell, and Reggie Cameron. That's their 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 10th leading scorers. They also lose their leading rebounder in Pryor (though Govan was tied in rebounds per game), they lost a few seniors in their rotations, and a few other high-rotation guys like Agau. Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class. They have one top 100 guy in Jamarko Pickett who may get minutes, but no surefire 4 or 5 star guys. We don't even know if some of them, like Sodom, are even prepared to play more than a couple of minutes a game. It's always easy to rip on other teams, but it's important to remember that without looking at this in a biased manner, we are really in pretty weak shape, too. I am not saying we won't be better than expected if certain guys improve, but a LOT of good things need to happen for us to be competitive in the Big East, and it's more likely than not that these things won't happen. But, as I've said many times, I would be thrilled to be wrong. Some people around here seem to prefer ripping on our own team... Instead of pointing out everything that could be wrong with this year's Hoyas and hoping to be wrong, how about showing some faith and supporting the team. Reports say Pickett may start, you say he may get some minutes. Needless negativity like that just doesn't anything.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 6, 2017 17:49:25 GMT -5
What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists. Using stats like average points per game is not always useful, but let's use this logic on Georgetown: What so great about Georgetown? They lose starters Peak, Pryor, sometimes-starter Bradley Hayes, transfer Akoy Agau, Tre Campbell, and Reggie Cameron. That's their 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 10th leading scorers. They also lose their leading rebounder in Pryor (though Govan was tied in rebounds per game), they lost a few seniors in their rotations, and a few other high-rotation guys like Agau. Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class. They have one top 100 guy in Jamarko Pickett who may get minutes, but no surefire 4 or 5 star guys. We don't even know if some of them, like Sodom, are even prepared to play more than a couple of minutes a game. It's always easy to rip on other teams, but it's important to remember that without looking at this in a biased manner, we are really in pretty weak shape, too. I am not saying we won't be better than expected if certain guys improve, but a LOT of good things need to happen for us to be competitive in the Big East, and it's more likely than not that these things won't happen. But, as I've said many times, I would be thrilled to be wrong. I'm certainly not saying we should be picked ahead of them. Far from it. We're picked exactly where we should be. More likely than not it's also where we'll end up.
I'm just saying they're a team I could see us catching if everything breaks right for us and if they don't find answers to their question marks at PG and in the post.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 6, 2017 21:37:35 GMT -5
“Our strengths are on the wing with Khyri Thomas and Marcus Foster,” McDermott said. “Our pace will also be a strength. I think we can still play at a considerable pace and put pressure on the defense. And I think our depth is pretty good, albeit some of it will be young. But our freshmen have proven in practice that they are ready to contribute in some form.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 10:29:07 GMT -5
What's so great about Creighton? They lose starters Watson, Patton, Zierdan, and Huff and Major rotation player Zach Hanson. That's their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th leading scorers, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7, 9th leading rebounders, their leading assist man who when he went down with injury they went 7-9 down the stretch. Yes they have a good recruiting class with a number of top 100 recruits. But no sure fire 5 star guys. Yes they add Kaleb joseph from Cuse. But heck he did nothing there and through two exhibition games is averaging 1 point, 1.5 rebounds, and 2 assists. Using stats like average points per game is not always useful, but let's use this logic on Georgetown: What so great about Georgetown? They lose starters Peak, Pryor, sometimes-starter Bradley Hayes, transfer Akoy Agau, Tre Campbell, and Reggie Cameron. That's their 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 10th leading scorers. They also lose their leading rebounder in Pryor (though Govan was tied in rebounds per game), they lost a few seniors in their rotations, and a few other high-rotation guys like Agau. Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class. They have one top 100 guy in Jamarko Pickett who may get minutes, but no surefire 4 or 5 star guys. We don't even know if some of them, like Sodom, are even prepared to play more than a couple of minutes a game. It's always easy to rip on other teams, but it's important to remember that without looking at this in a biased manner, we are really in pretty weak shape, too. I am not saying we won't be better than expected if certain guys improve, but a LOT of good things need to happen for us to be competitive in the Big East, and it's more likely than not that these things won't happen. But, as I've said many times, I would be thrilled to be wrong. I said this in a different thread a while back, and I do think it's relevant generally: the vast majority of teams in the country lose some combination of their "best" players EVERY year. That's the nature of the beast. Whether it's the # 1, 3, and 6 scorers, or the #2, 4, and 5 rebounders, or whatever. You can point to pretty much any team out there and make that case. It's pretty rare that a group of great Fr/So/Jr players all come back for a team. Yes, we lost our two "best" players from last year. But we have no idea how the current group will mesh, or who will step up, or who might have stepped up last year if P&P hadn't used more than half of the possessions. 20-30 years ago, you could look at a group of guys like Ewing and Wingate and Martin and Jackson (or like Laettner and Hill and Hurley) and reasonably project what they might look like a year or two later. And you could actually count on that coming together (barring injury or something unforeseen). There was some continuity: if someone graduated, you'd look at the incoming freshmen and say "Who in this group can help replace what was lost?" But it was easier to know your baseline going into a season. Nowadays, guys go pro, "leave the program", transfer at the drop of a hat, whatever. Guys drop into programs for a year or two (grad transfers, jucos). Roster construction really is more of a year-to-year thing, even for programs that don't get one-and-dones. If you look at our roster this year as opposed to last (and even last year as opposed to the year before), you could argue that they're completely different teams. In 2015, a reasonable Hoya fan would have assumed that the 2016-17 team would be led by Paul White, Isaac Copeland, Tre Campbell, and LJ Peak, and wouldn't have been able to pick Mulmore and Pryor out of a lineup of two. Granted, we were circling the drain in advance of a coaching change, but significant roster turnover is more the norm than the exception these days. And it's not just about plugging numbers/stats in and out. It's about how guys mesh and fit together as a group, too. I guess my bigger point is that it's really hard in this day and age to look at college hoops teams in any sort of linear fashion.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 7, 2017 11:27:45 GMT -5
Using stats like average points per game is not always useful, but let's use this logic on Georgetown: What so great about Georgetown? They lose starters Peak, Pryor, sometimes-starter Bradley Hayes, transfer Akoy Agau, Tre Campbell, and Reggie Cameron. That's their 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 10th leading scorers. They also lose their leading rebounder in Pryor (though Govan was tied in rebounds per game), they lost a few seniors in their rotations, and a few other high-rotation guys like Agau. Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class. They have one top 100 guy in Jamarko Pickett who may get minutes, but no surefire 4 or 5 star guys. We don't even know if some of them, like Sodom, are even prepared to play more than a couple of minutes a game. It's always easy to rip on other teams, but it's important to remember that without looking at this in a biased manner, we are really in pretty weak shape, too. I am not saying we won't be better than expected if certain guys improve, but a LOT of good things need to happen for us to be competitive in the Big East, and it's more likely than not that these things won't happen. But, as I've said many times, I would be thrilled to be wrong. Some people around here seem to prefer ripping on our own team... Instead of pointing out everything that could be wrong with this year's Hoyas and hoping to be wrong, how about showing some faith and supporting the team. Reports say Pickett may start, you say he may get some minutes. Needless negativity like that just doesn't anything. I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't trying to rip on Georgetown at all. My post was said in the "voice" of what an opposing fan might say about us (which is why I said, "let's use this logic on Georgetown" and proceeded to mimic the post I quoted). So for example, when I said, "Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class," that was said in the voice of somebody who might criticize our team - I was not trying to say I thought our recruiting class is bad. So to use your example, I do think Pickett could start and I certainly think he will be given a chance to get solid minutes. But, if you were an outside observer looking in, I think you could certainly be skeptical of that. That's all I was trying to say. I do think it's important to be realistic as a fan, at least to some extent. The blunt fact is that we did lose our two best players, and we don't have two guys who obviously will be stepping into their shoes (that last part is crucial - most teams lose key guys, but many times they have people ready to fill their shoes or top recruits coming in - we generally do not). And while Pickett was a great late recruiting win, most of the guys we recruited are raw, or will need to further develop to be major contributors this season. That's not to say our guys won't improve or that certain guys may surprise us, but right now there's no reason to think we are going to be better than any other Big East team, except perhaps for DePaul. If you go back and read through my posts on HoyaTalk over the years, I think you will see that I have always supported the team, I have always supported our players, I have always hoped for the best, and I have generally tried to be optimistic, even where sometimes it was not warranted. And I supported the staff and coaches to a far greater extent than most against "needless negativity" that was rampant here over the last couple of years. While I think I have generally tried to keep a realistic mindset about this year's team, I have said on numerous occasions that I hope our guys surprise us and I hope some of our guys will be improve. And I've said multiple times that I sincerely hope that I am wrong that we are going to have a difficult year. I would absolutely love for this team to be much better than expected.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 7, 2017 14:15:56 GMT -5
Some people around here seem to prefer ripping on our own team... Instead of pointing out everything that could be wrong with this year's Hoyas and hoping to be wrong, how about showing some faith and supporting the team. Reports say Pickett may start, you say he may get some minutes. Needless negativity like that just doesn't anything. I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't trying to rip on Georgetown at all. My post was said in the "voice" of what an opposing fan might say about us (which is why I said, "let's use this logic on Georgetown" and proceeded to mimic the post I quoted). So for example, when I said, "Georgetown doesn't have a good recruiting class," that was said in the voice of somebody who might criticize our team - I was not trying to say I thought our recruiting class is bad. So to use your example, I do think Pickett could start and I certainly think he will be given a chance to get solid minutes. But, if you were an outside observer looking in, I think you could certainly be skeptical of that. That's all I was trying to say. I do think it's important to be realistic as a fan, at least to some extent. The blunt fact is that we did lose our two best players, and we don't have two guys who obviously will be stepping into their shoes (that last part is crucial - most teams lose key guys, but many times they have people ready to fill their shoes or top recruits coming in - we generally do not). And while Pickett was a great late recruiting win, most of the guys we recruited are raw, or will need to further develop to be major contributors this season. That's not to say our guys won't improve or that certain guys may surprise us, but right now there's no reason to think we are going to be better than any other Big East team, except perhaps for DePaul. If you go back and read through my posts on HoyaTalk over the years, I think you will see that I have always supported the team, I have always supported our players, I have always hoped for the best, and I have generally tried to be optimistic, even where sometimes it was not warranted. And I supported the staff and coaches to a far greater extent than most against "needless negativity" that was rampant here over the last couple of years. While I think I have generally tried to keep a realistic mindset about this year's team, I have said on numerous occasions that I hope our guys surprise us and I hope some of our guys will be improve. And I've said multiple times that I sincerely hope that I am wrong that we are going to have a difficult year. I would absolutely love for this team to be much better than expected. Hint: When you have to devote 2 paragraphs to explaining your point in a previous post, you're doing it wrong.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Nov 7, 2017 14:59:27 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 7, 2017 17:04:01 GMT -5
Hint: When you have to devote 2 paragraphs to explaining your point in a previous post, you're doing it wrong. You're insightful as always. Thanks for the tip. Go Hoyas.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 10, 2017 0:05:45 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 10, 2017 1:28:17 GMT -5
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 10, 2017 9:47:23 GMT -5
Gotta give credit to Cooley for his recruiting. Providence is not the easiest place to recruit D1 athletes to, and he consistently does a good job getting players and coaching them up and keeping the Friars competitive. He sees to be able to find a way to connect with young kids and has had enough success with his players to convince them he gives them a chance to get to the NBA
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 10, 2017 11:10:16 GMT -5
Gotta give credit to Cooley for his recruiting. Providence is not the easiest place to recruit D1 athletes to, and he consistently does a good job getting players and coaching them up and keeping the Friars competitive. He sees to be able to find a way to connect with young kids and has had enough success with his players to convince them he gives them a chance to get to the NBA I don't think Cooley is selling an NBA dream at all, he tells kids we'll make you better and we're gonna win games.. Personally I think the "get to the NBA" ploy is fools gold..
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 10, 2017 11:19:14 GMT -5
Gotta give credit to Cooley for his recruiting. Providence is not the easiest place to recruit D1 athletes to, and he consistently does a good job getting players and coaching them up and keeping the Friars competitive. He sees to be able to find a way to connect with young kids and has had enough success with his players to convince them he gives them a chance to get to the NBA I don't think Cooley is selling an NBA dream at all, he tells kids we'll make you better and we're gonna win games.. Personally I think the "get to the NBA" ploy is fools gold.. I don't disagree with you that the "NBA dream" is fools gold for 90-95% of the recruits, but I think alot of the D1 players going to schools in major conferences "think" they have a chance of playing in the NBA. I am not sure if Cooley sells that or not as a recruiting pitch, but he has had just enough success getting players into the league that a recruit with those dreams thinks he has a chance playing at Providence. He is a good coach and does a really good job with that program. And like you said, they win games which makes his recruiting pitch much easier.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 11, 2017 19:23:55 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 13, 2017 13:38:16 GMT -5
Good chance Holt is out all season! Nate Watson looked very good in their first game and so did sophomore BIG Kalif Young.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 13, 2017 13:52:02 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 13, 2017 16:15:48 GMT -5
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