bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
|
Post by bamahoya11 on Feb 28, 2017 21:37:08 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if there is not some kind of early termination clause in his contract. It might be expensive to trigger, but it is almost certainly less than the total remaining on the contract (otherwise why have a buyout at all?). And we could use the extra money freed up to move in a different direction. JT3 re-upped his contract in 2013. Despite FGCU, he was in a very strong position to negotiate at the time. I find it hard to believe he doesn't have very favorable terms; in part because I think a scenario where he would be fired was not likely to happen. It's all speculation, but almost certainly any dismissal would warrant a large payout. Either way, it's a ton of money. The buyout observations that you and DFW and a couple others have advanced are good ones. To be honest, I hadn't put much thought into that because it's just so common in athletics to have a school pay a buyout without even thinking about it. But athletics is big money, and these buyouts can threaten even larger programs. One reason LSU hung on to Les Miles for so long was due to the fact that there were concerns that the size of his buyout might literally bankrupt the state of Louisiana. Basically, I think this means JTIII's tenure may well come down to what the handful of folks who could pay millions of dollars in buyout money think. That's the way it is. As for the game, disappointed for the team. Another forgetful performance in a forgettable season.
|
|
|
Post by FHillsNYHoya on Feb 28, 2017 21:38:33 GMT -5
Yes we lost because of the refs....
Agree to disagree.
|
|
|
Post by FHillsNYHoya on Feb 28, 2017 21:46:37 GMT -5
Its amazing how poorly this team executes after the last TV timeout. Awful turnovers. Foul a 3 point shooter. It seems like he does it once every single game. Slow lazy entry pass. Fumbling balls away. I really dont know what to say about the last possession. Even if designed for MD it would have been tough to get a great look w the close out coming and his release. Going to rim quick seems like much better option there. Credit to all of you who attend Saturday. As always i will be at the BET but for the first time ever (since 1989) im not feeling extremely excited about going. Peak didn't touch Dezi on that shot. He jumped pass the shooter......horrible call after the refs had been calling a really good game.....that play lost us the game.....horrible call!!!!! Just watched it again. He absolutely hit him. LJ even knew it.
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 28, 2017 21:50:40 GMT -5
Its amazing how poorly this team executes after the last TV timeout. Awful turnovers. Foul a 3 point shooter. It seems like he does it once every single game. Slow lazy entry pass. Fumbling balls away. I really dont know what to say about the last possession. Even if designed for MD it would have been tough to get a great look w the close out coming and his release. Going to rim quick seems like much better option there. Credit to all of you who attend Saturday. As always i will be at the BET but for the first time ever (since 1989) im not feeling extremely excited about going. Peak didn't touch Dezi on that shot. He jumped pass the shooter......horrible call after the refs had been calling a really good game.....that play lost us the game.....horrible call!!!!! Are you sure you were watching the right game?
|
|
hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
|
Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 28, 2017 21:56:38 GMT -5
For the people calling for a quick 2 - play out the percentages of us making a 3 to send the game to overtime vs making a 2, and then likely needing to make either a 2 or 3 on the next possession to send it to overtime. You'll be surprised.
The internet tends to love the idea of quick 2s because people seem to think it's virtually a lock you will score - but it most certainly isn't. Often you'll miss the two or take too long to get it off, especially in the college game.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2017 21:57:35 GMT -5
Wow, touchy! We all know he has a contract. I don't know how long it runs, but others who know sone of these things have indicated it is for probably 2 more years. But at the same time, we are on the hook for it either way, so the only real additional expense would be the new coach's salary, which would presumably be a few hundred thousand. I admit I am touchy and I apologize for my attacks! Just super frustrated like everyone else- and I am on the road and I stayed up until 3am for that ending. Well then bless you for your commitment! We are all pretty despondent at this point. For the second year in a row - the end cannot come quickly enough.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2017 22:01:51 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if there is not some kind of early termination clause in his contract. It might be expensive to trigger, but it is almost certainly less than the total remaining on the contract (otherwise why have a buyout at all?). And we could use the extra money freed up to move in a different direction. But with annual TV money, etc., it might be easier for the university to pay $3 million a year for 3 years than, say $5 million or $6 million all at once for a buyout. With some schools, that is where big boosters come in, to help pay the buyout.
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 28, 2017 22:03:58 GMT -5
For the people calling for a quick 2 - play out the percentages of us making a 3 to send the game to overtime vs making a 2, and then likely needing to make either a 2 or 3 on the next possession to send it to overtime. You'll be surprised. The internet tends to love the idea of quick 2s because people seem to think it's virtually a lock you will score - but it most certainly isn't. Often you'll miss the two or take too long to get it off, especially in the college game. The game doesn't happen in a vacuum. You're playing one of the worst FT shooting teams in the country. I'm absolutely trying to extend the game here and force them to make FTs, even if it's only one possession. As I said, I have no faith that our coach and team would be able to properly diagram/execute a play that gets a quick 2, but there are dozens of programs that can successfully get an easy 2 points there and extend the game. On top of that, literally THE ONLY THING this team does even remotely well, is get to the foul line. I know LJ played horribly down the stretch, but his going to the hoop is still our best chance at getting points one way or another. Passing the ball around and essentially killing 14 seconds before chucking up a prayer is just not the right call in this situation. It just isn't.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
|
Post by drquigley on Feb 28, 2017 22:05:44 GMT -5
Underlying all this angst isn't the losing it's the how we lose. Hey, if we're getting blown out by doubt digits we could just accept the fact that we stink and let it go. Almost every game we play there is a point where you think "now if we just get a stop and/or don't turn the ball over we can win this thing". And in almost every game we don't get a stop and do turn the ball over (sometimes, like last night, we turn it over several times). For example, I don't think you could think of more bonehead plays in the last 3 minutes of this game if you tried. Just so depressing...
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 28, 2017 22:07:32 GMT -5
Underlying all this angst isn't the losing it's the how we lose. Hey, if we're getting blown out by doubt digits we could just accept the fact that we stink and let it go. Almost every game we play there is a point where you think "now if we just get a stop and/or don't turn the ball over we can win this thing". And in almost every game we don't get a stop and do turn the ball over (sometimes, like last night, we turn it over several times). For example, I don't think you could think of more bonehead plays in the last 3 minutes of this game if you tried. Just so depressing... Bad teams find ways to lose....
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Feb 28, 2017 22:14:54 GMT -5
Just came home to another DVR'd version of the current day Hoyas. It's getting hard not to just fast forward to the collapse. You know it's coming and painful to watch.
Locked up the nine seed tonight though so at least we know our fate. How nice.
This is tiresome but I trudge through this board as logic is checked at the door upon login.
My guess is nothing changes next year and we suck again and we repeat this conversation again from December to March with even more people piling on the change bus and the same faithful bringing the same arguments.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2017 22:20:58 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:1. The starting PF & C positions need to be up for competition over the summer. Govan, Derrickson, & Johnson did not get it down in the scoring column nor on the boards. Govan and Derrickson stepped it up in the 2nd half with a better effort Govan 4Pts, 3 Rebs & Derrickson 9Pts, 4 Rebs This was better than the combines 0Pts, 3 Rebs in the 1st half Next year's team could look a lot like the 2013/2014 team which had a good backcourt (Starks & DSR) with a subpar front court and ended Losing in the 2nd rd of the NIT's to Florida State 2. Leading Scorers Peak 15pts, Pryor 11pts, Derrickson 9pts 3. Tonight's game was a Triple Header in regards to what has plagued JTIII I am going to go Micro and then Macro The Hoyas are up 59-56 with 2:28 left in the game after Peak's layup And then proceeded to go scoreless the rest of the game and got outscored 6-0 the final 2:27 of the game The last 3 possessions included 2 turnovers and only one shot at the basket which went over the back board (A) JTIII's close game record (5pts and less and OT) 17-22 Overall "in close games" (43%) vs Non Big East Opponents: 10-7 (58%) vs New Big East Opponents: 7-15 (30%) 5-6 this season "in close games" 3-1 vs Non BE Opponents (80%) Losses to Maryland 76-75 2-5 vs New BE Opponents (28%) Losses to Xavier 81-76 Butler 85-76 OT Seton Hall 68-66 OT DePaul 67-65 Seton Hall 62-59 Currently JTIII is on 3 game losing streak "in close games" vs New Big East Opponents Feb. 4th, Seton Hall 68-66 OT Loss Feb. 22nd, DePaul 67-65 Loss Tonight Feb. 28th, Seton Hall 62-59 (B) The Month of Feb. continues to haunt this team February is gut check time and the Hoyas' record the last 4 years for this month 2014 5-3 NIT 2015 3-3 NCAA 2016 1-6 No Bids 2017 1-6 Combined Feb. Record since the NBE 10-18 (35%) The last 2 years, 2-12 (14%) For the 3rd consecutive year the Hoyas will fail to post an above .500 mark for the month of February For the 2nd consecutive year the Hoyas will have won only 1 game in the month of February (C) Currently the Hoyas are on a 4 game losing streak with a very possible 5th on Saturday vs Villanova Now have lost 6 of 7 with the first loss at the hands of Seton Hall in OT JTIII is now assured of back to back losing seasons for the 1st time in his career and the 1st time for the Hoyas since the early 70's Below is the overall record vs in the NBE of the 3 previous opponents Record vs Creighton: 5-3 (.625) Record vs St. Johns : 5-2 (.714) Record vs DePaul: 7-2 (.777) These figures above are updated and JTIII does have a winning % above .500 vs all 3 opponents despite losing the latest contest against them JTIII's New BE Reg. Season record to date 32-37 (46%) Record vs Seton Hall : 2-6 (25%) If the front court would have crashed the glass accordingly in the 1st half, this game might have been an W But when you have a player in Delgado out rebounding the Hoyas starting 5; 9rebs to 6 rebs Any game will be an uphill in addition to all the other struggles the team currently faces Final Grade: D
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Feb 28, 2017 22:26:57 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:1. The starting PF & C positions need to be up for competition over the summer. Govan, Derrickson, & Johnson did not get it down in the scoring column nor on the boards. Govan and Derrickson stepped it up in the 2nd half with a better effort Govan 4Pts, 3 Rebs & Derrickson 9Pts, 4 Rebs This was better than the combines 0Pts, 3 Rebs in the 1st half Next year's team could look a lot like the 2013/2014 team which had a good backcourt (Starks & DSR) with a subpar front court and ended Losing in the 2nd rd of the NIT's to Florida State 2. Leading Scorers Peak 15pts, Pryor 11pts, Derrickson 9pts 3. Tonight's game was a Triple Header in regards to what has plagued JTIII I am going to go Micro and then Macro The Hoyas are up 59-56 with 2:28 left in the game after Peak's layup And then proceeded to go scoreless the rest of the game and got outscored 6-0 the final 2:27 of the game The last 3 possessions included 2 turnovers and only one shot at the basket which went over the back board (A) JTIII's close game record (5pts and less and OT) 17-22 Overall "in close games" (43%) vs Non Big East Opponents: 10-7 (58%) vs New Big East Opponents: 7-15 (30%) 5-6 this season "in close games" 3-1 vs Non BE Opponents (80%) Losses to Maryland 76-75 2-5 vs New BE Opponents (28%) Losses to Xavier 81-76 Butler 85-76 OT Seton Hall 68-66 OT DePaul 67-65 Seton Hall 62-59 Currently JTIII is on 3 game losing streak "in close games" vs New Big East Opponents Feb. 4th, Seton Hall 68-66 OT Loss Feb. 22nd, DePaul 67-65 Loss Tonight Feb. 28th, Seton Hall 62-59 (B) The Month of Feb. continues to haunt this team February is gut check time and the Hoyas' record the last 4 years for this month 2014 5-3 NIT 2015 3-3 NCAA 2016 1-6 No Bids 2017 1-6 Combined Feb. Record since the NBE 10-18 (35%) The last 2 years, 2-12 (14%) For the 3rd consecutive year the Hoyas will fail to post an above .500 mark for the month of February For the 2nd consecutive year the Hoyas will have won only 1 game in the month of February (C) Currently the Hoyas are on a 4 game losing streak with a very possible 5th on Saturday vs Villanova Now have lost 6 of 7 with the first loss at the hands of Seton Hall in OT JTIII is now assured of back to back losing seasons for the 1st time in his career and the 1st time for the Hoyas since the early 70's Below is the overall record vs in the NBE of the 3 previous opponents Record vs Creighton: 5-3 (.625) Record vs St. Johns : 5-2 (.714) Record vs DePaul: 7-2 (.777) These figures above are updated and JTIII does have a winning % above .500 vs all 3 opponents despite losing the latest contest against them JTIII's New BE Reg. Season record to date 32-37 (46%) Record vs Seton Hall : 2-6 (25%) If the front court would have crashed the glass accordingly in the 1st half, this game might have been an W But when you have a player in Delgado out rebounding the Hoyas starting 5; 9rebs to 6 rebs Any game will be an uphill in addition to all the other struggles the team currently faces Final Grade: D Season Grade: F
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 28, 2017 22:31:24 GMT -5
This is tiresome but I trudge through this board as logic is checked at the door upon login. My guess is nothing changes next year and we suck again and we repeat this conversation again from December to March with even more people piling on the change bus and the same faithful bringing the same arguments. eagle54, your position is clear. While I disagree with you, a lot of people who regularly post here agree with you that change is needed. That's why I don't understand your "logic is checked at the door upon login." Even when people agree with you, you seem to play the martyr role of being the sole voice of reason among others. I just don't get it.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2017 22:33:15 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:1. The starting PF & C positions need to be up for competition over the summer. Govan, Derrickson, & Johnson did not get it down in the scoring column nor on the boards. Govan and Derrickson stepped it up in the 2nd half with a better effort Govan 4Pts, 3 Rebs & Derrickson 9Pts, 4 Rebs This was better than the combines 0Pts, 3 Rebs in the 1st half Next year's team could look a lot like the 2013/2014 team which had a good backcourt (Starks & DSR) with a subpar front court and ended Losing in the 2nd rd of the NIT's to Florida State 2. Leading Scorers Peak 15pts, Pryor 11pts, Derrickson 9pts 3. Tonight's game was a Triple Header in regards to what has plagued JTIII I am going to go Micro and then Macro The Hoyas are up 59-56 with 2:28 left in the game after Peak's layup And then proceeded to go scoreless the rest of the game and got outscored 6-0 the final 2:27 of the game The last 3 possessions included 2 turnovers and only one shot at the basket which went over the back board (A) JTIII's close game record (5pts and less and OT) 17-22 Overall "in close games" (43%) vs Non Big East Opponents: 10-7 (58%) vs New Big East Opponents: 7-15 (30%) 5-6 this season "in close games" 3-1 vs Non BE Opponents (80%) Losses to Maryland 76-75 2-5 vs New BE Opponents (28%) Losses to Xavier 81-76 Butler 85-76 OT Seton Hall 68-66 OT DePaul 67-65 Seton Hall 62-59 Currently JTIII is on 3 game losing streak "in close games" vs New Big East Opponents Feb. 4th, Seton Hall 68-66 OT Loss Feb. 22nd, DePaul 67-65 Loss Tonight Feb. 28th, Seton Hall 62-59 (B) The Month of Feb. continues to haunt this team February is gut check time and the Hoyas' record the last 4 years for this month 2014 5-3 NIT 2015 3-3 NCAA 2016 1-6 No Bids 2017 1-6 Combined Feb. Record since the NBE 10-18 (35%) The last 2 years, 2-12 (14%) For the 3rd consecutive year the Hoyas will fail to post an above .500 mark for the month of February For the 2nd consecutive year the Hoyas will have won only 1 game in the month of February (C) Currently the Hoyas are on a 4 game losing streak with a very possible 5th on Saturday vs Villanova Now have lost 6 of 7 with the first loss at the hands of Seton Hall in OT JTIII is now assured of back to back losing seasons for the 1st time in his career and the 1st time for the Hoyas since the early 70's Below is the overall record vs in the NBE of the 3 previous opponents Record vs Creighton: 5-3 (.625) Record vs St. Johns : 5-2 (.714) Record vs DePaul: 7-2 (.777) These figures above are updated and JTIII does have a winning % above .500 vs all 3 opponents despite losing the latest contest against them JTIII's New BE Reg. Season record to date 32-37 (46%) Record vs Seton Hall : 2-6 (25%) If the front court would have crashed the glass accordingly in the 1st half, this game might have been an W But when you have a player in Delgado out rebounding the Hoyas starting 5; 9rebs to 6 rebs Any game will be an uphill in addition to all the other struggles the team currently faces Final Grade: D Foot note: In regards to Seton Hall, JTIII has now loss 4 straight to Kevin Willard and has not scored a "W" in over 2 years.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Feb 28, 2017 22:33:58 GMT -5
This is tiresome but I trudge through this board as logic is checked at the door upon login. My guess is nothing changes next year and we suck again and we repeat this conversation again from December to March with even more people piling on the change bus and the same faithful bringing the same arguments. eagle54, your position is clear. While I disagree with you, a lot of people who regularly post here agree with you that change is needed. That's why I don't understand your "logic is checked at the door upon login." Even when people agree with you, you seem to play the martyr role of being the sole voice of reason among others. I just don't get it. You got it wrong 2003. These are new posters and some that are coming around. It's getting lonely on your side but the faithful will burn this place before they give up that fight. Where do you stand these days? Four more years for this coach so we can let him see it through his contract?
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 28, 2017 22:44:00 GMT -5
eagle54, your position is clear. While I disagree with you, a lot of people who regularly post here agree with you that change is needed. That's why I don't understand your "logic is checked at the door upon login." Even when people agree with you, you seem to play the martyr role of being the sole voice of reason among others. I just don't get it. You got it wrong 2003. These are new posters and some that are coming around. It's getting lonely on your side but the faithful will burn this place before they give up that fight. Where do you stand these days? Four more years for this coach so we can let him see it through his contract? If you say so. I think JT3 should be given another year. I've explained why before and won't get into it again. But, I can tell you from the many responses to much of my posts that more people agree with you than me. I know that's not useful for your schtick but it's reality. Anyway, we can take this argument elswhere. This isn't about the Seton Hall game.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,775
|
Post by njhoya78 on Feb 28, 2017 23:03:06 GMT -5
Plus/minus for tonight's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at shupirates.com:
Mosely +4, Derrickson +1, Pryor +1, Govan even, Johnson even, Peak -2, Agau -3, Cameron -3, Hayes -6, Mulmore -7, Campbell DNP/coach's decision, Hines DNP/coach's decision, Mourning DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Feb 28, 2017 23:15:44 GMT -5
You got it wrong 2003. These are new posters and some that are coming around. It's getting lonely on your side but the faithful will burn this place before they give up that fight. Where do you stand these days? Four more years for this coach so we can let him see it through his contract? If you say so. I think JT3 should be given another year. I've explained why before and won't get into it again. But, I can tell you from the many responses to much of my posts that more people agree with you than me. I know that's not useful for your schtick but it's reality. Anyway, we can take this argument elswhere. This isn't about the Seton Hall game. It's not schtick it's now reality. You and the faithful can't put out the flames on this board any longer as they are coming from everywhere. If the Admin continues to ignore it they will squander this program's brand.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 1, 2017 0:39:03 GMT -5
Back to the Seton Hall game. As I said before, I was about seven rows back behind our bench (purchased through Tickemaster, which shows how well the Pirates draw, even when they are decent), so I got a pretty good view of the team throughout the game, during timeouts, etc. These are merely observations:
- In the first half, on defense (when we were defending in front of our bench), JT3 frequently yelled instructions to our guys telling them where to be on rotations, etc. Interestingly, Agau did the same thing a few times.
- Wallace and Ewing Jr. seem very actively involved.
- I didn't see anything approximating bad body language. Even when we were down by 8 at one point, the guys seemed in it (and they did come back from that deficit), slapping hands, etc.
- On one of the last possessions (around 01:12), Delgado scored and totally manhandled Govan. Hayes actually tried to check in for the possession, but the referees already blew the whistle.
- The personnel substitutions were odd to me. Cameron did have a pretty good game offensively, though his defense was really atrocious (though as calhoya pointed out, if we sat everyone bad on defense we couldn't field a team). I would've liked to see more Kaleb Johnson.
- The last play was obviously a mess. If you go back and look at it, Peak brings it up, hands off to Derrickson who passes to Govan, who passes back to Peak, who passes to Cameron who then passes to Pryor, who is less open than Peak (in person at the game, it looked like Peak was not open at all, similar to Pryor on his shot, but on TV it looks like Peak had a little more room).
I don't know what happened here. Govan got the ball in a position where he couldn't shoot. I think Govan was then supposed to set up a screen after handing off to Peak, to free up Peak for a three point shot, but Govan missed his man, and so Peak was not open. So then we have Peak up top, with Govan to the right, Cameron setting up a screen in the high post, Derrickson out of position (eventually he cuts in toward the basket), and Pryor in the corner. When Cameron got the ball, Peak was actually more open than Pryor in the corner. Oh well, a bad play all around.
- I firmly believe this group is trying hard. I saw a team listening to their coach, and trying to win, but they fell short. A bunch of turnovers down the stretch really killed us, especially Peak's foul on the three (especially since that was unlikely to go in).
- It's a disappointing year, yet I am sad it's almost over. I still love college basketball and prefer to have it than not. Granted, I'd like a version that wins a lot more!
|
|