hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 1, 2017 0:50:28 GMT -5
Despite how well we shot and the fact that we closed it out in crunch time, we can't afford to turn it over so many times and rebound so poorly against most teams and win. I'm glad this game came against DePaul. The fact that we won despite turning the ball over on almost 28% of our possessions is amazing to me.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,014
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Post by dense on Feb 1, 2017 1:38:24 GMT -5
Won on the road in the Big East despite not valuing the ball and almost zero paint presence. Take the W and get back to campus. yup the turnovers and missed FTS, if we play like that on Saturday we get beat for sure.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Feb 1, 2017 6:46:59 GMT -5
Happy for the young men. This good feeling thing could be habit forming for them.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 1, 2017 7:48:52 GMT -5
Late thoughts:
(1) Game-saving job from Reggie. His time has been limited all year because, well, he is limited (as we all know). He nearly transferred. And then our backup five goes out with injury and our backup four sits with foul issues. Great job on the defensive glass with simple positional awareness and fundamentals. Good job calmly taking part in the offense and hitting a big three. If this season (somehow) is saved, Reggie should be a hero of the telling.
(2). I loved taking things away from Garrett at the end. Sure, excellent player that he is, he showed terrific poise against the trap finding the walk-on for the contested layup, and on the last play made a tough pass to lead to a possible tying shot. But we made others' beat us. And they couldn't. Sometimes good schemes work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes bad schemes work! Even if that last three had gone in and they tied it, this was absolutely the right move. And was well-executed.
(3). I'm intrigued by the amoeba matchup zone. We have used it some in prior games. You would think a D like that would take far more communication and discipline than a regular zone. And to be fair, it's not like we shut them down while playing it. Something to watch for. Might be a weapon against Nova to try, if only to make them think some.
(4). I'm resigned to the fact that our rebounding stinks. But we need to eliminate the awful turnovers. We have a good enough offensive team (at least as of late) where if we just get a shot off, we have a decent chance of points. I don't mind the turnovers of aggression within reason. But we just had way too many awful ones last night.
(5). The late first half charge on LJ was game changing. We could have been up five at the half with LJ ready to play 18 minutes in the second. I think we likely would have rolled from there.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Feb 1, 2017 7:58:06 GMT -5
Also happy for the win, but there are no other teams in the Big East that the Hoyas can beat playing as sloppy as they did last night. Agree with those complimenting the coach on his decisions during the final stretch. Just cannot understand why a team that is this big cannot box-out and rebound and why this team has suddenly become so unreliable at the FT line. Everyone has their favorite whipping boy when it comes to this team, but it seems that the players (Reggie, Kaleb, Agau, etc.) are starting to define roles for themselves where they can maximize their contribution. My hope is that they can develop more of an offensive threat at the pg position--even give Tre another shot when the other two are playing poorly, get MD back in some kind of groove where he can stay on the floor longer and contribute without committing fouls and avoid having the ball movement stop when the pass goes into a big who is well-guarded (Govan holding the ball and Agau trying to dribble through traffic are not likely to lead to good outcomes).
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 1, 2017 8:15:58 GMT -5
Good, tough win on the road once again Hoyas! Yes sir! Hoya Saxa!
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
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Post by vv83 on Feb 1, 2017 8:38:39 GMT -5
Late thoughts: (1) Game-saving job from Reggie. His time has been limited all year because, well, he is limited (as we all know). He nearly transferred. And then our backup five goes out with injury and our backup four sits with foul issues. Great job on the defensive glass with simple positional awareness and fundamentals. Good job calmly taking part in the offense and hitting a big three. If this season (somehow) is saved, Reggie should be a hero of the telling. (2). I loved taking things away from Garrett at the end. Sure, excellent player that he is, he showed terrific poise against the trap finding the walk-on for the contested layup, and on the last play made a tough pass to lead to a possible tying shot. But we made others' beat us. And they couldn't. Sometimes good schemes work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes bad schemes work! Even if that last three had gone in and they tied it, this was absolutely the right move. And was well-executed. (3). I'm intrigued by the amoeba matchup zone. We have used it some in prior games. You would think a D like that would take far more communication and discipline than a regular zone. And to be fair, it's not like we shut them down while playing it. Something to watch for. Might be a weapon against Nova to try, if only to make them think some. (4). I'm resigned to the fact that our rebounding stinks. But we need to eliminate the awful turnovers. We have a good enough offensive team (at least as of late) where if we just get a shot off, we have a decent chance of points. I don't mind the turnovers of aggression within reason. But we just had way too many awful ones last night. (5). The late first half charge on LJ was game changing. We could have been up five at the half with LJ ready to play 18 minutes in the second. I think we likely would have rolled from there. My favorite play of this game: Reggie boxing out his man very effectively - the ball hit the floor and rolled out of bounds. Seeing Reggie performing a perfect box out, and holding it even after the ball hit the floor, preventing the only DePaul player with a shot at the ball from getting it - the kind of fundamental stuff we neglect too often. Yes, it would have been nice if a teammate zipped in and grabbed the loose ball -but Reggie did the unglamorous work that assured us possession
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,509
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 1, 2017 8:49:11 GMT -5
Won on the road in the Big East despite not valuing the ball and almost zero paint presence. Take the W and get back to campus. yup the turnovers and missed FTS, if we play like that on Saturday we get beat for sure. Any road win in the Big East these days is a good win. Depaul is not very good, but they have played everyone in the conference tough at home this year, so getting out of there with a win is big if the Hoyas have any chance for the NCAA's. Hopefully they learn some lessons from the game last night. They simply can not let their offense get stagnant. When they don't have ball movement and player movement they seem to always end up with a turnover or a bad shot. Keep everyone cutting fast and hard and keep the ball moving and the offense seems to be pretty efficient. Those turnovers at key points last night kept Depaul in the game. Getting beat on the boards is really inexcusable agains that team last night. They need to keep focused on rebounding or a team like Seton Hall is going to run them out of the building. They have been pretty good from the FT line most of the year but had a bad night last night, hopefully that doesn't happen again soon!!! And stop fouling so much!!! LJ needs to be on the floor for most of the game for them to beat any good teams. Beat Seton Hall on Saturday and this season becomes really interesting!!!
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 1, 2017 9:04:46 GMT -5
Late thoughts: (1) Game-saving job from Reggie. His time has been limited all year because, well, he is limited (as we all know). He nearly transferred. And then our backup five goes out with injury and our backup four sits with foul issues. Great job on the defensive glass with simple positional awareness and fundamentals. Good job calmly taking part in the offense and hitting a big three. If this season (somehow) is saved, Reggie should be a hero of the telling. (2). I loved taking things away from Garrett at the end. Sure, excellent player that he is, he showed terrific poise against the trap finding the walk-on for the contested layup, and on the last play made a tough pass to lead to a possible tying shot. But we made others' beat us. And they couldn't. Sometimes good schemes work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes bad schemes work! Even if that last three had gone in and they tied it, this was absolutely the right move. And was well-executed. (3). I'm intrigued by the amoeba matchup zone. We have used it some in prior games. You would think a D like that would take far more communication and discipline than a regular zone. And to be fair, it's not like we shut them down while playing it. Something to watch for. Might be a weapon against Nova to try, if only to make them think some. (4). I'm resigned to the fact that our rebounding stinks. But we need to eliminate the awful turnovers. We have a good enough offensive team (at least as of late) where if we just get a shot off, we have a decent chance of points. I don't mind the turnovers of aggression within reason. But we just had way too many awful ones last night. (5). The late first half charge on LJ was game changing. We could have been up five at the half with LJ ready to play 18 minutes in the second. I think we likely would have rolled from there. 5, was a horrible call as you mention. It took 2 points away and gave LJ his third which forced us to sit him starting the second. Plenty to teach on about this W for the coaches but glad to get a W.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 1, 2017 9:18:36 GMT -5
Also happy for the win, but there are no other teams in the Big East that the Hoyas can beat playing as sloppy as they did last night. Agree with those complimenting the coach on his decisions during the final stretch. Just cannot understand why a team that is this big cannot box-out and rebound and why this team has suddenly become so unreliable at the FT line. Everyone has their favorite whipping boy when it comes to this team, but it seems that the players (Reggie, Kaleb, Agau, etc.) are starting to define roles for themselves where they can maximize their contribution. My hope is that they can develop more of an offensive threat at the pg position--even give Tre another shot when the other two are playing poorly, get MD back in some kind of groove where he can stay on the floor longer and contribute without committing fouls and avoid having the ball movement stop when the pass goes into a big who is well-guarded (Govan holding the ball and Agau trying to dribble through traffic are not likely to lead to good outcomes). Despite the late drama...we ended up shooting 70.4% from the line, which is just a shade below our season average of 74.5% but above our Big East average of 68.2%. The specifics: Pryor 6-8, Govan 4-5, Peak 2-3, Mulmore 3-4, and Mosely 4-5. Of course, Kaleb went 0-2. The real long term concern is that Pryor is only shooting 63.3% (19-30) compared to 74.7% (56-75) overall and Govan is shooting 43.8% (7-16)in Big East compared to 68.3% (43-63) overall.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 1, 2017 9:33:03 GMT -5
Poor effort I thought, but encouraging as we found a way to win. There were stretches of intensity from our group, but lots of stretches of just going through the motions at 80%. Saved by good outside shooting again.
However, the idea that this team is going to win 5 out of the next 8 games is crazy. Will lose to Nova x2 and Creighton away. Will probably lose at least 1 of the other games, probably 2 (Seton Hall away and Marquette). My guess is 16-15 and 7-11 in conference.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 1, 2017 9:52:18 GMT -5
Poor effort I thought, but encouraging as we found a way to win. There were stretches of intensity from our group, but lots of stretches of just going through the motions at 80%. Saved by good outside shooting again. However, the idea that this team is going to win 5 out of the next 8 games is crazy. Will lose to Nova x2 and Creighton away. Will probably lose at least 1 of the other games, probably 2 (Seton Hall away and Marquette). My guess is 16-15 and 7-11 in conference. What is more infuriating is that knowing this team, we may steal a couple wins from Nova (senior night) and Creighton, get two from the home matchups with DePaul and Seton Hall...but then drop the away game to Seton Hall, the home game against Marquette, the away game at St. John's and the away game with Nova, putting us at 17-14, 8-10 in conference. That would put us somewhere right at 60 on the RPI with an SOS of 15 - we would have 5 top 25 wins. We would be the weirdest, most infuriating bubble case.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 1, 2017 10:28:45 GMT -5
Poor effort I thought, but encouraging as we found a way to win. There were stretches of intensity from our group, but lots of stretches of just going through the motions at 80%. Saved by good outside shooting again. However, the idea that this team is going to win 5 out of the next 8 games is crazy. Will lose to Nova x2 and Creighton away. Will probably lose at least 1 of the other games, probably 2 (Seton Hall away and Marquette). My guess is 16-15 and 7-11 in conference. The idea that this team is going to LOSE 5 out if the next 8 might be just as crazy. Nova is probably 2 losses. Creighton? We just thumped them without Watson; they had a very nice win at Butler last night, but counting it as a definite loss makes no sense. If we play like we did last night, of course we will struggle to win 5. If we play like we did last week, I think 5 is extremely realistic - maybe even low!
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Feb 1, 2017 11:18:35 GMT -5
Fair enough we'll have to agree to disagree. I think we can both agree the offensive execution late was much better than it has been in close games this year. The late game plays from the last two games should be a huge part of the offense but for some reason they are only allowed to do it when they are trying to bleed the clock out at the end of a game. My feelings exactly. When we need a bucket anytime in the game and we are facing M to m defense let's spread the floor and let LJ drive. BTW, early in the game Mulmore had some nice penetration and dish moves. Love to see more of that too. But it is just that constant bitch about our offense. We don't open the floor and rely too much on great cuts and passes. Expects too much out of this bunch and becoming too easy to defend against.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,775
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 1, 2017 11:47:21 GMT -5
Plus/minus for last night's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Mosely +8, Agau +5, Derrickson +5, Peak +4, Cameron +3, Johnson even, Pryor -1, Mulmore -2, Campbell -3, Govan -4, Hayes DNP/injured (foot), Hines DNP/coach's decision, Mourning DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 1, 2017 12:40:07 GMT -5
Plus/minus for last night's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com: Mosely +8, Agau +5, Derrickson +5, Peak +4, Cameron +3, Johnson even, Pryor -1, Mulmore -2, Campbell -3, Govan -4, Hayes DNP/injured (foot), Hines DNP/coach's decision, Mourning DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision. Pryor at -1 emphasizes just how meaningless this stat is.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 1, 2017 12:50:36 GMT -5
Hope Hayes is not injured but I was not surprised that he did not play last night even without an injury. He is slow on his recovery once the trap is used to stop the pg from penetrating. Garrett is a big pg unlike the Creighton and Butler pg's. He would have either split the trap with Hayes and Hoya pg or waited to Hayes retreated and went to the basket behind him. Agau was the better substitution for Govan in this game. His footwork is much better than Hayes. I too was happy to see Reggie play some real positive minutes for the Hoyas even though he did not score many points. I felt sorry for Campbell though. The young man's value to the team at this point is his ability to hit the open 3pt shot. Last night in his limited time I saw two open shots he had, but he did not shoot. I have to think it was from a lack of confidence in his shot. The young man has to realize that barring injury he is not going to be the starting pg for the Hoyas for reasons already discussed in other posts, but like Reggie he has a skill(3pt shot) that if he makes it reliable, can really help the team. Right now he is only a spot up 3pt shooter and even that is not that reliable. He should work on coming off a pick and rising up to hit that shot.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 1, 2017 12:52:17 GMT -5
The late game plays from the last two games should be a huge part of the offense but for some reason they are only allowed to do it when they are trying to bleed the clock out at the end of a game. My feelings exactly. When we need a bucket anytime in the game and we are facing M to m defense let's spread the floor and let LJ drive. BTW, early in the game Mulmore had some nice penetration and dish moves. Love to see more of that too. But it is just that constant bitch about our offense. We don't open the floor and rely too much on great cuts and passes. Expects too much out of this bunch and becoming too easy to defend against. The only problem - spreading the floor can work if you have finishers. LJ is our only proven finisher. Mulmore has done it a couple of times, but still very inconsistent.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 1, 2017 13:01:38 GMT -5
The late game plays from the last two games should be a huge part of the offense but for some reason they are only allowed to do it when they are trying to bleed the clock out at the end of a game. My feelings exactly. When we need a bucket anytime in the game and we are facing M to m defense let's spread the floor and let LJ drive. BTW, early in the game Mulmore had some nice penetration and dish moves. Love to see more of that too. But it is just that constant bitch about our offense. We don't open the floor and rely too much on great cuts and passes. Expects too much out of this bunch and becoming too easy to defend against. We do it a heck of a lot! First off, all we do is spread the floor, generally, so that part isn't an issue. Second, LJ is continually either coming off a ball screen (like last night) or a dribble hand-off. And he takes it strong through a vacated lane all the time. Pryor did it a ton against Butler, too, though he's not nearly as adept at it. The real problem is that LJ is really the only guy on the team with that skill-set. And, naturally, teams play to take it away from him. Especially once he starts dribbling, since he fairly infrequently pulls up for a J. It's not a hard scouting report to give your team. Just like "stay inside Pryor's shorts and force him right and if he drives by you so be it" isn't all that hard. Mulmore has shown flashes, but he's just as likely to turn it over, at least for now. My major complaint right now (offensively) is that I'd much rather see us emphasize Marcus in the post instead of Jesse, when we're trying to get the ball in there. His offensive foul last night notwithstanding. Jesse is so much better facing the hoop than with his back to it. In fact, even when we dump it in to him and he gets it fairly deep (say, 8 feet from the hoop). I'd almost rather have him turn and face and look to shoot a J -- or at least do it every so often. Last night he did draw some fouls, which was great, but he's not terribly adept at going up strong in ways that tend to draw fouls. Marcus is. And if you use Marcus in the post, they may have to use a bigger body on him, which then lets you stick him outside and get some threes. And I've said this before in prior years, but I'll say it again: A staple of the Princeton offense is reversing the post and having the guards dive down and post up. But we very infrequently do it. LJ would seem to have an outstanding set of skills to make that work and you would think Rodney would too with his shooting and leaping ability. Especially when those two are being well-defended off the bounce, I'd love to see us get them involved that way.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 1, 2017 13:26:49 GMT -5
The idea that this team is going to LOSE 5 out if the next 8 might be just as crazy. Nova is probably 2 losses. Creighton? We just thumped them without Watson; they had a very nice win at Butler last night, but counting it as a definite loss makes no sense. If we play like we did last night, of course we will struggle to win 5. If we play like we did last week, I think 5 is extremely realistic - maybe even low! I do this to myself every year for the last few years and get excited after a big in-conference win. I dont think 2 decent games negates an entire 2-3 year stretch of underachievement. I wouldn't say we played well in the 2 wins versus ranked opponents. I think we played decently. Creighton played very poorly. And so did Butler with us hitting 10 threes. I think 4-4 down the stretch but would not be surprised at 3-5. When is the last time we were truly on the bubble? We usually are firmly in or peter out with a prolonged losing streak in Feb/March.
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