eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 12, 2016 21:24:58 GMT -5
Shocking, guy clearly couldn't play at a BE level and he and the coach were the last two to realize it. Curious to see what program he ends up with but I'm thinking something like Benimon did with the Towson transfer. At least coach and player figured it out before conference play.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
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Post by AltoSaxa on Dec 12, 2016 21:29:59 GMT -5
Can't help but think this worsens the optics for a struggling program. Paul White and now this.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Dec 12, 2016 21:33:53 GMT -5
Wow. I really thought once he found his shot he would propel this team to a deep run in the NCAA. So much potential. I'm sorry but I see this as a big loss...
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Dec 12, 2016 21:37:02 GMT -5
I just saw the story in the Washington Post and figured I would migrate over here and get the sense of the board. Although I almost feel bad about it, my initial reaction when I saw the story was to more or less shrug and say, "Ok." It just didn't move me a whole lot either way. As far as the season goes, I think we more or less settled on a lineup structure against LaSalle. I really like Govan-Hayes at the 5, Agau-Derrickson at the 4, Pryor, Peak, and then Moseley-Campbell. If anything, I would like Kaleb Johnson or Reggie Cameron to find a way to be able to spell Pryor or Peak for 2-3 minutes a game to get their overall minutes down a little bit heading into conference play. That just doesn't leave a lot for Copeland.
Copeland will go down in Hoya history I think as a very confusing player. He had incredible talent and potential but just never seemed to put it all together. Personally, I wish him the best.
Now, putting this season aside, I do agree with the posters asking questions about what this means for us long-term. Simply put, the last few months have been pretty bizarre. We lost Paul White late in the game but before the new season, basically lost Cameron for about a month, and now have lost Copeland. It's not exactly a sign of stability. Now, I will say that when any program changes coaches or systems, this type of stuff happens with some frequency. We didn't change at head coach last year (much to the chagrin of some), but we did change virtually every other position. Lots of new staff, a new system, and I would hazard to guess, some new standards and rules to try to address what happened last year. Changes like that are sure to sow some backlash/discord. So, I have my issues with the staff and I think it's fair to ask questions, but I'm holding judgment on this one for now.
I'd also point out that it doesn't seem, bigger picture, that JTIII has lost the team. The guys on the court over the last few games have shown lots of effort on the court and commitment to improving. Frankly, they've done incredible work to get us back even approaching a point of respectability. So, I'm just not willing to read too much into this until I see more on the court. Copeland could be a sign of the state of the program generally, or he could just be a player who wasn't fully ready to buy in to whatever the new vision/direction for the team is. In some ways, we'll see Saturday and next week by how the team responds with its play.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Dec 12, 2016 21:38:16 GMT -5
Shocking, guy clearly couldn't play at a BE level and he and the coach were the last two to realize it. Curious to see what program he ends up with but I'm thinking something like Benimon did with the Towson transfer. At least coach and player figured it out before conference play. I see him going to a major college program. Maybe one with less academic pressure and greater visibility. ACC or SEC anyone?
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Post by burnell on Dec 12, 2016 21:40:17 GMT -5
I wish him good luck the change might do him good he needs to work on his game.but he didn't deserve to start.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Dec 12, 2016 21:41:04 GMT -5
Shocking, guy clearly couldn't play at a BE level and he and the coach were the last two to realize it. Curious to see what program he ends up with but I'm thinking something like Benimon did with the Towson transfer. At least coach and player figured it out before conference play. I see him going to a major college program. Maybe one with less academic pressure and greater visibility. ACC or SEC anyone? AAC/BIG12
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Post by hoya137 on Dec 12, 2016 21:42:55 GMT -5
Another bummer. To say he wasn't going to play seems pretty shortsighted to me. Depth matters. One injury and one guy in foul trouble and we have a huge hole in our rotation -- it's a long BE season. His tantalizing potential (and HS rating) made his shortcomings that much more frustrating, but he was good enough to get meaningful minutes. It's a real slippery slope on this board -- per some people, Paul White was never gonna get minutes because of Copeland and Govan, and only a week ago that we had people arguing that Jesse Govan was a waste of a scholarship.
In my opinion his shot wasn't great but it wasn't beyond repair. The main flaw in his game offensively was that he had a complete inability to finish in traffic or through any contact. Hopefully he can figure that out at his next spot because he sure has athleticism to boot.
I believe the kid played hard for the Hoyas, and I wish him all the best at his next school.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 12, 2016 21:44:07 GMT -5
His outside shot had become a complete disaster. He's lost all confidence in it. He really needs a year off to rework that because otherwise it becomes very easy to guard him.
The other problem was that his short wingspan and narrow shoulders made it hard for him to rebound or be a rim protector.
Honestly at this point it's hard to justify playing Copeland over Agau at the 4 because Agau is a rim protector, rebounder, defender and can handle he ball just as well, plus pass and even shoot from outside better than current Copeland.
I still contend that Copelands best position was at the 3. And shiftin Peak to the point and pryor to the two was the way to go but it never happened.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 12, 2016 21:47:48 GMT -5
Shocking, guy clearly couldn't play at a BE level and he and the coach were the last two to realize it. Curious to see what program he ends up with but I'm thinking something like Benimon did with the Towson transfer. At least coach and player figured it out before conference play. I see him going to a major college program. Maybe one with less academic pressure and greater visibility. ACC or SEC anyone? There's no way with his tape he ends up in the ACC or SEC unless he's at a bottom feeder. Not sure if you know something about his academics but I don't think that was his problem but then again I don't know that it wasn't. His problem seemed more like someone who couldn't defend at 6'9" or shoot. I say he goes down a level and doesn't play power five unless he's in a struggling program. Maybe he talked to Dr. G after the LaSalle game for such a quick announcement?
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:05:07 GMT -5
I see him going to a major college program. Maybe one with less academic pressure and greater visibility. ACC or SEC anyone? There's no way with his tape he ends up in the ACC or SEC unless he's at a bottom feeder. Not sure if you know something about his academics but I don't think that was his problem but then again I don't know that it wasn't. His problem seemed more like someone who couldn't defend at 6'9" or shoot. I say he goes down a level and doesn't play power five unless he's in a struggling program. Maybe he talked to Dr. G after the LaSalle game for such a quick announcement? His tape shows an excellent freshman year, a good first half of his sophomore year, and problems since then. If I'm a coach in a top conference with a need for a SF and an open scholarship, I take a chance with a former five star. Either he does well on the team and contributes, or he struggles to make a mark and leaves after a year or so. Low risk high reward.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:05:24 GMT -5
All that potential flushed down the drain. Maybe he'll do better elsewhere. Never played much defense or developed a decent handle, so when he lost his shooting touch, what was left? The off-season dunking videos and the hairdo?
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:10:16 GMT -5
Guy was a 5 star coming out of high school. He will get picked up by a solid major conference team. Vernon Macklin was more of a disaster than Ike--went to Florida and became a very solid contributor. Ike will land somewhere and with the right coaching will be a very good player again.
Its a shame he never put it together as a Hoya. Not sure where the blame lies, but now there are 2 high level recruits to transfer from the 2014 class. Thank god for Peak.
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by DallasHoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:11:54 GMT -5
He couldn't defend, he had no ability to beat his man off the dribble, he rebounded based on jumping ability alone, and his shot got worse with each game. He just doesn't appear to be as talented as his ranking. Derrickson has NBA talent based on his size and range, both of which are substantially better than Copeland, and ought to get as many minutes as his health permits. Hate to say addition by subtraction, but other than depth what have we really lost?
I would also add that if you had seen the way team mobbed LJ after he got the MVP award in Miami, there is no way you could say that JTIII has lost this team.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:13:37 GMT -5
I just saw the story in the Washington Post and figured I would migrate over here and get the sense of the board. Although I almost feel bad about it, my initial reaction when I saw the story was to more or less shrug and say, "Ok." It just didn't move me a whole lot either way. As far as the season goes, I think we more or less settled on a lineup structure against LaSalle. I really like Govan-Hayes at the 5, Agau-Derrickson at the 4, Pryor, Peak, and then Moseley-Campbell. If anything, I would like Kaleb Johnson or Reggie Cameron to find a way to be able to spell Pryor or Peak for 2-3 minutes a game to get their overall minutes down a little bit heading into conference play. That just doesn't leave a lot for Copeland. Copeland will go down in Hoya history I think as a very confusing player. He had incredible talent and potential but just never seemed to put it all together. Personally, I wish him the best. Now, putting this season aside, I do agree with the posters asking questions about what this means for us long-term. Simply put, the last few months have been pretty bizarre. We lost Paul White late in the game but before the new season, basically lost Cameron for about a month, and now have lost Copeland. It's not exactly a sign of stability. Now, I will say that when any program changes coaches or systems, this type of stuff happens with some frequency. We didn't change at head coach last year (much to the chagrin of some), but we did change virtually every other position. Lots of new staff, a new system, and I would hazard to guess, some new standards and rules to try to address what happened last year. Changes like that are sure to sow some backlash/discord. So, I have my issues with the staff and I think it's fair to ask questions, but I'm holding judgment on this one for now. I'd also point out that it doesn't seem, bigger picture, that JTIII has lost the team. The guys on the court over the last few games have shown lots of effort on the court and commitment to improving. Frankly, they've done incredible work to get us back even approaching a point of respectability. So, I'm just not willing to read too much into this until I see more on the court. Copeland could be a sign of the state of the program generally, or he could just be a player who wasn't fully ready to buy in to whatever the new vision/direction for the team is. In some ways, we'll see Saturday and next week by how the team responds with its play. At the end of the day it's all about PT. Rivers PT went down and he left. Meschiriakov got alot of PT for setting a good example and then zero minutes the next year and skeddadled. Bennimon got recruited over by Otto Porter and Whittington. Cameron got a lot of PT when their was a void and now seems to be complaining about a lack of PT. I think the one thing you can see is that players who get alot minutes start to believe there's an expectation that they should automatically continue getting those minutes the following year. It happens everywhere but I kind of see where when there is a void at a certain position, III inserts a guy with lesser ability who hustles and listens and then the following year that same guy is disgruntled because he is no longer needed. Obviously in Copeland's case it is different but Copelands play in the last half of last year and this year has been horrendous so it was almost impossible to give him major minutes if you didn't want to keep losing. I mean his shot is kind of flat but it's a mystery to me how he went from a great rhythm catch and shoot 3pt shooter to a guy who couldn't even do that or shoot off the dribble.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:14:50 GMT -5
Now, if Trey Mourning announces he's transferring . . . I was thinking more of Kaleb and its effect on Keldon. For the most improved player, he's seeing little pt. I'm guessing JT3 knows the early record is not good, and will run his best players to the ground to get the now-crucial Ws. What effect will that have in March? Stay tuned.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 12, 2016 22:15:06 GMT -5
Guy was a 5 star coming out of high school. He will get picked up by a solid major conference team. Vernon Macklin was more of a disaster than Ike--went to Florida and became a very solid contributor. Ike will land somewhere and with the right coaching will be a very good player again. Its a shame he never put it together as a Hoya. Not sure where the blame lies, but now there are 2 high level recruits to transfer from the 2014 class. Thank god for Peak. Macklin was way better than Copeland and was misused when he was here. Copeland was overused and it hurt this team. Copeland won't be able to contribute to a program like Florida.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:16:34 GMT -5
He couldn't defend, he had no ability to beat his man off the dribble, he rebounded based on jumping ability alone, and his shot got worse with each game. He just doesn't appear to be as talented as his ranking. Derrickson has NBA talent based on his size and range, both of which are substantially better than Copeland, and ought to get as many minutes as his health permits. Hate to say addition by subtraction, but other than depth what have we really lost? I would also add that if you had seen the way team mobbed LJ after he got the MVP award in Miami, there is no way you could say that JTIII has lost this team. Sadly I agree. He was becoming a huge liability on both ends of the court. Add to that his short wingspan and it's hard for him to contribute with even dirty work like rebounding or blocking shots (.6 blocked shots per game).
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:18:14 GMT -5
Now, if Trey Mourning announces he's transferring . . . I was thinking more of Kaleb and its effect on Keldon. For the most improved player, he's seeing little pt. I'm guessing JT3 knows the early record is not good, and will run his best players to the ground to get the now-crucial Ws. What effect will that have in March? Stay tuned. If anything this will open more time for Mourning. And frankly I though Mourning was playing much better than Copeland was at the 4. I still think though that the major mistake was not playing Copeland at the 3 exclusively where he would have a size advantage.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Dec 12, 2016 22:18:49 GMT -5
His final shooting stats for this year: 11 for 40, 0 for 10 from three.
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