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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 16, 2016 14:45:47 GMT -5
Believe it or not, when it happens to you, it's like the sky has fallen, the sky has fallen. However, upsets and "debacles" happen almost every week. As tough as it was for many of you, it was even more tough for me. The DVR did not capture the last 2-3 minutes, Our Hoyas were up by six or seven, then the next thing I am hearing during halftime of the Creighton game is that we lost. Still reeling.
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bkhoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 117
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Post by bkhoya on Nov 16, 2016 15:19:19 GMT -5
I don't think neither Jagan or Tre are play making point guards which is what this team desperately needs. I need to see more of Mulmore but that was a huge ingredient last night that was missing was not having a settling force in the backcourt to handle the ball and get us out of danger. However, from what I can see so far, Tre appears to have the best handle of all of our guards. So we have to keep faith that he'll get better.
Also the offense has to run through Peak, not Pryor. Pryor was a turnover machine and played selfish and out of control too often. He also appeared to play a lot of matador defense as well. I was definitely disappointed in someone who acts like a leader but still feel like he didn't want any part of a game winning shot at the end. He gave the ball up to Jagan so quick I knew he didn't want any part of taking a big shot at that point.
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,008
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Post by jester on Nov 16, 2016 15:27:31 GMT -5
PG issue aside, I'll reserve some judgement until I see Derrickson play the minutes he deserves, Hayes provides some interior presence, LJ plays more and stops fouling as he is right now our best player, we leverage Isaac more/in right spots, Govan gets more comfortable quickly passing out of double teams, Pryor settles somewhere between Game 1 and Game 2, and Akoy continues to come back. A lot of places of improvement that can get us to a good place, even if not having an elite PG doesn't get us to that next level. Its been 2 games.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 16, 2016 15:39:34 GMT -5
I didn't see Cameron on the bench. Story or no? I also thought Agau was horrendous. Fouls a lot but I guess he is getting back into playing form.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 16, 2016 15:55:13 GMT -5
I've been over this in much more detail before, but the 2003-2004 team basically only played cupcakes and some really really bad ones. Contrarily, last year we played some good teams. So yes, our record was worse last season but that's because we had a challenging schedule. Esherick scheduled putrid teams, which is why he did well OOC and got slaughtered in the Big East. No doubt the 2003-2004 team was much worse. However, he did beat those putrid teams which is more than last year's team could say. No, no it's not. Maybe read posts in their entirety before responding to them...
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,222
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 16, 2016 16:16:44 GMT -5
Now that I've had a night to sleep on this, I've decided that to me, this was worse than Monmouth, worse than Radford. In fact, because of the opponent and the manner in which we lost, I would call this the worst non-conference (and non-NCAA tournament, of course) loss since I was a student, and that goes back to the Jack McGee days. Somewhere Lefty Dreisell (may he rot in hell) is laughing.
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Post by whatrocks33 on Nov 16, 2016 16:30:36 GMT -5
A colleague of mine from UMCP reminded me that Anthony Cowan grew up cheering for the Hoyas. That nugget stings a little more today.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 16, 2016 16:32:33 GMT -5
Not only cheered for, but was a damn ballboy for three years. How, why? Doesn't matter. Our game day experience stinks in verizon. Can't believe 13.5 was the number for that game. Shoulda easily been 18.5 but as everyone pointed out, now W's, no big crowds.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Nov 16, 2016 16:38:08 GMT -5
Now that I've had a night to sleep on this, I've decided that to me, this was worse than Monmouth, worse than Radford. In fact, because of the opponent and the manner in which we lost, I would call this the worst non-conference (and non-NCAA tournament, of course) loss since I was a student, and that goes back to the Jack McGee days. Somewhere Lefty Dreisell (may he rot in hell) is laughing. Watch out. Some posters might be about to go ALL CAPS on you.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Nov 16, 2016 17:00:02 GMT -5
SO, I've been as critical of JT3 and Campbell for their culpability in last night's debacle as anyone. Despite that, one thing that's been bothering me - and don't get me wrong, I know the refs didn't screw us last night overall - but was anybody at the game in a good position to see if Campbell _did_ step out of bounds? The angle shown on TV was far less than obvious, and I was shocked that they didn't show another replay (at least I didn't see one). Also, would this have been reviewable if a replay showed otherwise? Somebody please tell me he was clearly on the line, so I can sleep tonight. Looked pretty clear from the overhead shot that he was at least 2-3 inches out. He did get nudged by Huerter, but as an upperclassman he HAS to know better. Tre should have gone down Italian-soccer or Duke-like. Force the refs to call the nudge.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 16, 2016 17:01:50 GMT -5
Like Melo did when LJ nudged him in the baseline double team. Although in the last seconds refs often let those things slide.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Nov 16, 2016 17:08:52 GMT -5
How many of us thought we would miss DSR so soon? Man, with him out there the last 3 minutes we win by 10. That said, what is bothering me the most about last night's game is Tre Campbell. Notice how whenever he gets the ball he is always looking to pass it. He has now caught up to Lubic in causing me to shout at the screen. For Lubic it was, "Turn around and shoot". With Campbell it is, "Look up and drive to the hoop". There was one TV shot where he was bringing the ball up. He was ten feet passed mid court. We had spread the flour and there was only one man between him and the basket. Instead of taking him off the dribble he passed to a man on the wing. He's just not a true PG.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,389
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 16, 2016 17:19:51 GMT -5
College Hoops segment on "Around the Horn" on ESPN led with highlight (lowlight?) of Moseley getting blocked by Huerter with the segment entitled "How much do last night's outcomes matter?". Commentators mostly agree it doesn't matter in terms of the entire season. So there's that.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Nov 16, 2016 17:33:43 GMT -5
A colleague of mine from UMCP reminded me that Anthony Cowan grew up cheering for the Hoyas. That nugget stings a little more today. Did we recruit him?
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harlemhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by harlemhoya on Nov 16, 2016 17:54:05 GMT -5
A colleague of mine from UMCP reminded me that Anthony Cowan grew up cheering for the Hoyas. That nugget stings a little more today. Did we recruit him? That kid is a natural point guard. He is already better than Campbell.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,961
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 16, 2016 18:03:04 GMT -5
Disagree. Mosely is a pure point guard. He is not a shooter. I thought he did a credible job last night. However, he still is a freshman. However, I do agree that this is too early in the year to come to any conclusions. I do believe that by 2017, this team is going to be very very good. While I stand firm that the notion of what a point guard is supposed to be is antiquated, whether Jagan is a pure point is irrelevant to the point that he isn't a dynamic playmaker and that's what this team desperately needs. I've had arguments for days with people who tell me that players like Russell Westbrook and Kylie Irving aren't point guards, and I honestly don't care how they are defined: they make plays, bottom line. Last night, there were long stretches of the game where we needed a guard(s) to make a play and with Peak on the bench, we were stuck. I think Mulmore can be that guy, but time will tell. Waters will definitely be that guy, but it can't just be him. Not to turn this into the recruiting thread but this is why I didn't get it when folks said the program didn't need another lead type guard after Waters committed.. It's hard for a program to have enough guards imo..
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Thomas
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
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Post by Thomas on Nov 16, 2016 18:23:20 GMT -5
During Maryland's game against AU, the announcers mentioned that Anthony Cowan's father and uncle are Maryland grads, and his grandmother is a professor at Maryland, so it may have been a situation where he was going to Maryland no matter who recruited him. Cowan and Tre Campbell were teammates at St.John's in 2013-2014, was the staff looking at/recruiting Cowan when they were recruiting Campbell?
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Post by trillesthoya on Nov 16, 2016 18:28:15 GMT -5
trigger warning
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Nov 16, 2016 20:21:02 GMT -5
I didn't have time to post last night because I was late getting home from the game, but I've read through some of the comments today. I get the dispirited attitude. That was the most difficult basketball loss I've ever felt in person. Granted, I've never been to any of the NCAA Tournament upsets in person, but this was rough. In some ways, the feeling I felt convinced me that this was a rivalry we need to continue. The Maryland fans were loud and whiny, complaining (somewhat fairly) about the officiating. But at the end, I wanted to beat them in the worst way, and it was all I could do to walk to the Metro in silence after the game. I felt the same way I feel when Alabama loses to Auburn in football; not good.
As for the team, I saw plenty to like. It's clear that the coaches have adjusted the team to the new rules. We regularly drove the ball to the basket and picked up foul calls. The fouls hurt us, too, but we got the better of most of the calls. I think our aggression in going for fouls hurt our field goal percentage. The team had a hard time building momentum on offense, and we were frequently throwing up off-balance shots to draw contact. Maybe these are the rules we have, but they aren't that fun to play under.
Bright spots for me -- LJ Peak was fierce. He fouls way too much because he plays so hard, but he is a joy to watch when things are clicking. The only current player who can really finish plays inside and hit the outside shot. I also know he's gotten mixed reviews, but I really, really liked what I saw from Isaac Copeland. Yes, his shot was off last night, but he kept fighting and contributed to the game in a lot of ways. He had 13 rebounds and was swarming all over the ball. He was one of the only players who, all night long, was looking to get his hands on the basketball. Goven also played really well. I like what his range brings to our offense. He looks a lot stronger and more confident than last year, in my opinion.
Low spots, besides the obvious -- Akoy Agau does not look ready for prime time. I get that he's returning from an injury and he made a couple good plays on defense, but it was tough to watch him on offense. He couldn't handle a pass and just cannot give us position inside. This team really misses Hayes, in my opinion. Rodney Pryor is a terrific player, but he disappeared in stretches last night when he was unable to score. Better on rebounding from the first game, but no assists -- that'll need to change.
Overall -- This was an awful game to lose. I'm withholding judgment on the coaches/team before I see more. I need to have a bigger sample set, but I totally get the frustration. This was a game we had won, and we failed to put it away because we made repeated, stupid, mistakes. I do feel bad for the players, especially Tre. They are still kids, and I'm sure no one feels worse than them about how the game ended. I hope they take it out on Arkansas State and the teams they face out in Hawaii.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 16, 2016 20:21:45 GMT -5
We did recruit Cowan. But the Terps made him a priority since he was a freshman. That's why they got him. And they have done the same with Prentiss Hubb and Jalen Smith. They will get both.
I don't think we recruit the obvious studs in our backyard early enough. We tried with Foster, that was a poor evaluation.
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