Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 16, 2016 7:43:59 GMT -5
After sleeping on it, I don't feel much better. On a personal level, what is most concerning is that I don't even care that much. In past seasons, a loss like this would have bugged the hell out of me for days. I think apathy is setting in for me, and, sorry folks, but I have to blame JTIII and several years of mediocrity for that. Just seems like more of the same...
In reviewing the posts here, I am so glad we have the venue/ terrible turnout discussion going full-bore. That never gets old. Can someone maybe mention Paul White now, and how the game would have been different if he was still on the team. That would be fun.
On a serious note though, I keep coming back to a few things --
- Ike is really just not very good. Have you ever seen a big guy get stuffed so many times? - Pryor's lack of composure is startling given his age and experience. - Govan's weak hands have been discussed, and they are a problem. I noticed that he really is not very toned or muscular - or at lest it appeared that way last night. That kid needs to hit the weight room and work on his strength. It may help his ability to box out and play some interior D.
Still can't believe how this team managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 16, 2016 7:45:03 GMT -5
As in many of JT3's years at GU, we need an inbound play for end-game situations with full-court pressure. No longer do we have the "give it to DSR" one. JT3 has good FT shooters. We need a new strategy that works. Totally agree here. You know the trap is coming, it feels we are either shocked every time or show no composure. MD ran a really good press break on us earlier by almost immediately passing back to the inbounder. It worked extremely well. I suppose, but I thought the end of the game offense was fine. We put in good FT shooters and 99 out of 100 times Pryor doesnt slip and Campbell gets the foul before he steps out. In fact, Turgeon was basically begging his guys to foul Campbell. They got lucky. It all goes back to the tentativeness on defense, especially in the last several minutes of games. We play like we know we are going to get fouls against us. We ole guards to go right by us and Govan just won't stand his ground because he thinks he'll foul. Again, I know it's dime store coaching, but why don't we sag and clog the lane with some sort of zone? Why do we go 1-1 in those spots when it's clear guards are going to sprint past us?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 16, 2016 7:57:42 GMT -5
Turgeon doesn't blame the refs for the Hoyas 42 FTs: “It was hard for both teams. It’s early season. I think a lot of our fouls is because Georgetown has such good players. They’re hard to guard. They’re athletic, they’re big, they’re fast. They were really hard for us to guard. Early season, this happens,” Turgeon said. “The other night we didn’t foul at all; tonight we did. We put so much time into press offense. We probably didn’t put enough time into guarding the basketball.” www.washingtonpost.com/news/terrapins-insider/wp/2016/11/15/three-takeaways-from-marylands-comeback-win-over-georgetown/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 8:23:05 GMT -5
Except for the fact that the refs proceeded to call 4 (I think) fouls on us in the next two minutes to start to even things up. That tech worked like a charm. I think it was 3, but your point is spot on; there are times when I wish JT III would take the technical to fire up the team and turn the refs. Yeah - it was 3. Felt like 4, or 5, or 10... Also: Turgeon got T'd up right after we had been whistled for a hold/obstruction type foul (I assume he said something like "It's about Editeding time"). The dead-ball calls against Campbell and Copeland in the last minute were exactly those kind of plays. Seems like he got into the refs' heads that they should be on the lookout for those things. Sometimes, it's not just about getting your team fired up - it's about getting the refs to see what you want them to see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 8:25:07 GMT -5
On a personal level, what is most concerning is that I don't even care that much. In past seasons, a loss like this would have bugged the hell out of me for days. I think apathy is setting in for me... I'll second that. I woke up this morning feeling...fine. Not good, not bad. Just...fine.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 16, 2016 8:28:42 GMT -5
After sleeping on it, I don't feel much better. On a personal level, what is most concerning is that I don't even care that much. In past seasons, a loss like this would have bugged the hell out of me for days. I think apathy is setting in for me, and, sorry folks, but I have to blame JTIII and several years of mediocrity for that. Just seems like more of the same... In reviewing the posts here, I am so glad we have the venue/ terrible turnout discussion going full-bore. That never gets old. Can someone maybe mention Paul White now, and how the game would have been different if he was still on the team. That would be fun. On a serious note though, I keep coming back to a few things -- - Ike is really just not very good. Have you ever seen a big guy get stuffed so many times? - Pryor's lack of composure is startling given his age and experience. - Govan's weak hands have been discussed, and they are a problem. I noticed that he really is not very toned or muscular - or at lest it appeared that way last night. That kid needs to hit the weight room and work on his strength. It may help his ability to box out and play some interior D. Still can't believe how this team managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Agreed on the apathy. It's not at all surprising anymore when this coach and team blow a lead or incur yet another painful, needless loss. It's just more of the same. Maryland appeared to be far better coached throughout the game last night. They broke our press with ease over and over, their guards were able to easily penetrate our defense and either take it to the basket or kick it out to a wide open shooter. They missed a ton of wide open shots in the first half. At one point in the second half, we threw a zone at them off one of their inbounds plays and they seamlessly shifted, found a guy at the elbow for an open jumper. Their inbounds play under their own basket that was part of their comeback was smoothly run and resulted in an easy layup. These are all areas where our team has struggled enormously in the past and struggled again last night. All that said, we were in position to win this game, and the players collapsed down the stretch. Still - and call it hating and type in all caps all you want - it feels like we are at a coaching disadvantage just about every time out.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 16, 2016 8:30:06 GMT -5
Woke up and still cannot accept another meltdown, particularly by a team that features only one freshman (who did not appear to lose his composure at all). Some random thoughts after a lousy night. Hoyas lose another "road" game at home against a decent opponent. You can blame the fans for not coming but after another disappointing result it won't get better soon. I blame Fox for ridiculous scheduling (leaving work out West to catch a 3:30 start is at least a little hard to justify). After two games and one major letdown I have more questions than answers about this team:
Agau seems slow to react and no better at defense or rebounding than Govan. Was the pre-season hype from the coach premature? Realizing that he has literally not played much in years, more time is warranted.
Can Mosley or Mulmore shoot from mid-range or beyond the 3pt line? It won't take long for opponents to test them and thus far I cannot recall either looking to score except in penetration and on the break. From 3 pt range I believe that Peak was 1-2, Pryor was 3-6 and Govan was 2-2, Tre was 0-2. Copeland also missed as well. Based upon last year we have two others who can hit the 3, one of whom was apparently not in the arena and the other played mostly in the 1st half and primarily as an undersized post, not in a position to take the 3. Even an uptempo team needs a half-court offense and that requires some outside shooters. Govan and Derrickson could be nightmares for opponents out there.
In crunch time we appeared to play with a very short bench again. Needed defense against their guards. Why not Kaleb, a long and proven defender?
Finally, NCAA, you have ruined the game through your misguided efforts to introduce more offense. Instead, you have slowed down a game and allowed part-time officials to take over. Watching the officials impact that game from the outset with very tight and often unwarranted calls in the first half (to the benefit of the Hoyas), then back off in the second half to "let them play" and then reassert themselves at the end is a prime example of how to ruin this sport. It is unfair to coaches, players and most importantly the fans who are paying top dollar for what should be a 2 hour event. Instead we get endless parades to the FT line and coaches encouraged to explode in an effort to influence calls.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Nov 16, 2016 8:45:16 GMT -5
Haven't read through posts, so sorry for repetition. This was a tough loss, no question. No one said this will be a smooth transition to a new system. they will work on their press offense, and that will improve.
I really don't get why so many of you are so down on Isaac. I think he has shown a big improvement from last season. Ok. He needs to finish plays and make his shots. All of the Hoyas do. But he was active on both ends of the floor (13 rebounds!) and his ball handling has improved tremendously. (2 assists! 3 steals!). I mean, come on.
Also, I think Jagan will be a very important 4-year player and is already showing signs of leadership. Watching tv you couldn't see this, but he was talking to the refs after a couple of calls. There will be bumps along the way, but his floor leadership will be important this year and, of course, only become more important in successive seasons. I absolutely love the kid already.
A very small thing that I also noticed, but really liked. After a Maryland foul, the players were getting into position. JT3 encouraged them to come together into a huddle to talk things over. It made me feel good that he is trying to promote the type of chemistry we will need to win.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Nov 16, 2016 8:49:08 GMT -5
On a personal level, what is most concerning is that I don't even care that much. In past seasons, a loss like this would have bugged the hell out of me for days. I think apathy is setting in for me... I'll second that. I woke up this morning feeling...fine. Not good, not bad. Just...fine. I wish I could say the same (and yes i should probably get priorities in my life in order) but this one still really hurt this morning. I do see changes but so much seems still unchanged and i was hoping I guess for just a whole new look. 2 games in and plenty of positives but this would have been such a great early season win for so many reasons.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 16, 2016 8:57:19 GMT -5
I think it was 3, but your point is spot on; there are times when I wish JT III would take the technical to fire up the team and turn the refs. Yeah - it was 3. Felt like 4, or 5, or 10... Also: Turgeon got T'd up right after we had been whistled for a hold/obstruction type foul (I assume he said something like "It's about Editeding time"). The dead-ball calls against Campbell and Copeland in the last minute were exactly those kind of plays. Seems like he got into the refs' heads that they should be on the lookout for those things. Sometimes, it's not just about getting your team fired up - it's about getting the refs to see what you want them to see. Turgeon was way out of the coaching box and was told to get back, did not, and got T'd up. The ref pointed at the line. I'm sure there was language involved but looked like a box violation primarily.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 16, 2016 9:01:38 GMT -5
Finally, NCAA, you have ruined the game through your misguided efforts to introduce more offense. Instead, you have slowed down a game and allowed part-time officials to take over. Watching the officials impact that game from the outset with very tight and often unwarranted calls in the first half (to the benefit of the Hoyas), then back off in the second half to "let them play" and then reassert themselves at the end is a prime example of how to ruin this sport. It is unfair to coaches, players and most importantly the fans who are paying top dollar for what should be a 2 hour event. Instead we get endless parades to the FT line and coaches encouraged to explode in an effort to influence calls. Cannot agree more. Ref crews like last night heavily impact games, slow them to a crawl, and suck any flow out of the game. It makes the games virtually unwatchable.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 16, 2016 9:04:12 GMT -5
After sleeping on it, I don't feel much better. On a personal level, what is most concerning is that I don't even care that much. In past seasons, a loss like this would have bugged the hell out of me for days. I think apathy is setting in for me, and, sorry folks, but I have to blame JTIII and several years of mediocrity for that. Just seems like more of the same... In reviewing the posts here, I am so glad we have the venue/ terrible turnout discussion going full-bore. That never gets old. Can someone maybe mention Paul White now, and how the game would have been different if he was still on the team. That would be fun. On a serious note though, I keep coming back to a few things -- - Ike is really just not very good. Have you ever seen a big guy get stuffed so many times? - Pryor's lack of composure is startling given his age and experience. - Govan's weak hands have been discussed, and they are a problem. I noticed that he really is not very toned or muscular - or at lest it appeared that way last night. That kid needs to hit the weight room and work on his strength. It may help his ability to box out and play some interior D. Still can't believe how this team managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I agree with your comments regarding ike and Jessie. Ike just seems to be rushing everything. He rarely looks composed when he has the ball in his hands. Jessie just looks weak and poses no threat as a shot blocker for penetrating guards. I love that he can hit his free throws and has a nice stroke from three....but he has no mean streak and it shows. I was really missing Bradley Hayes last night. He's a tough kid. In fact at one point he got into it with a Maryland player while on the sideline. He's going to be important for us this year.
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Post by upstatesaxa on Nov 16, 2016 9:07:40 GMT -5
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 16, 2016 9:17:40 GMT -5
Positives - love that this team goes to the rim and gets to the line; FT margin will be huge and win us lots of ugly games this season
*Give the staff credit for Jagan - he's going to be very solid in a Trawick -type role going forward.
Negatives - *We have no PG - huge issue in this offense - until Waters arrives, we have an ugly situation there
*Pryor is a very good spot-up shooter and little more against good defenses
*Ike can't be No. 1 option - marginal shooter who doesn't finish at anything approaching a high rate of efficiency inside
*Govan is improving, but his defensive instincts are dreadful (turns back routinely after closeouts and not quick off the floor on weak side rotations)
*Peak has to stop with stupid fouls and forced offense and learn to be intelligent No. 1 option. He is exponentially more efficient than Cope and must take the alpha role
*Comparisons between Mulmore and AI are beyond laughable. Mulmore is insanely raw, not insanely gifted
*JT3 is still horribly shaky in end-of-game situations. His teams have always looked panicked, uncertain and confidence-challenged as time winds down. Our last first half possession foreshadowed the poor preparation, strategy and execution that would cost us in the final 19 seconds.
As others have said, new style but many of same ugly JT3 hallmarks. We're never going to outfox opponents, but perhaps this group will bond and grow emotionally instead of imploding like last season's. Problematic when there is no obvious leader - that certainly can't come from sideline.
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Post by manilahoyafan on Nov 16, 2016 9:23:04 GMT -5
Losing sucks. Especially when you give it away.
That said -- as much as you guys know much more about the intricacies of basketball than I do -- the team is still just 1-1. If there wasn't sweat left on the court, we would have won that game. I know there were bad plays, but we got that close.
This is not the same team as any other year's, so it will have to develop its own personality. I'm not sure we've identified it yet. Who knows? Maybe this will make these guys pull together and be tougher. It's just to early to come to a conclusion.
I shared the pain of 86 years of WS failure, but the Red Sox finally won...and won...and won. I am a 1982 GU grad, so I know the lows and highs of the Hoyas.
Hang tough, people. Heart attacks are part of the fun. Repeated deaths...and rebirths...are part of the excitement.
We are.....
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 16, 2016 9:40:07 GMT -5
Positives - love that this team goes to the rim and gets to the line; FT margin will be huge and win us lots of ugly games this season *Give the staff credit for Jagan - he's going to be very solid in a Trawick -type role going forward. Negatives - *We have no PG - huge issue in this offense - until Waters arrives, we have an ugly situation there *Pryor is a very good spot-up shooter and little more against good defenses *Ike can't be No. 1 option - marginal shooter who doesn't finish at anything approaching a high rate of efficiency inside *Govan is improving, but his defensive instincts are dreadful (turns back routinely after closeouts and not quick off the floor on weak side rotations) *Peak has to stop with stupid fouls and forced offense and learn to be intelligent No. 1 option. He is exponentially more efficient than Cope and must take the alpha role *Comparisons between Mulmore and AI are beyond laughable. Mulmore is insanely raw, not insanely gifted *JT3 is still horribly shaky in end-of-game situations. His teams have always looked panicked, uncertain and confidence-challenged as time winds down. Our last first half possession foreshadowed the poor preparation, strategy and execution that would cost us in the final 19 seconds. As others have said, new style but many of same ugly JT3 hallmarks. We're never going to outfox opponents, but perhaps this group will bond and grow emotionally instead of imploding like last season's. Problematic when there is no obvious leader - that certainly can't come from sideline. I knew the team would miss DSR a lot, he wasn't perfect but be knew how to play.. I agree on all your points..
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 16, 2016 10:06:18 GMT -5
I hope that's the last we've seen of those white uniforms this year... had a bad feeling as soon as I saw them laid out in that tweet, thought they did look great IFF you are a team that's home color is white. For us, they looked awfully not gray.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 10:08:51 GMT -5
I have so many mixed feelings. However one stands out. This team just does not understand how to break a press. Their inability to handle the press was the major cause for the loss last night. Recently I watched a replay of the Princeton-Georgetown NCAA game of many years ago. Georgetown had a great press and was causing teams to turn the ball over. Princeton had one guard who could dribble, but no one else really was a good dribbler nor much of a handle.. So how did they totally neutralize Georgetown's press?? Rule #1. If you try to dribble out of a double team trap you will lose the ball more times than not. The key is passing and spacing. To my untrained eye, it appeared that the players just don't understand the tactics of beating a press. Our players were constantly trying to beat the press by dribbling out of it (dribbling out of a double team). Of course anyone can slip, but they just didn't know how to get the ball in and when they did it was frantic dribbling. For example on Tre's stepping out of bounds; If you are going to go to the corner to get an inbounds pass (a bad idea in the first place), you have to be ready to pass the ball immediately before the trap comes and other players have to be cognizant of spacing and position to allow the trapped play a place to pass. Anyway, enough of this. Just my thoughts. What do you guys think??
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 16, 2016 10:23:46 GMT -5
Was LJ's foul 70 feet from the basket the worst Hoya foul since Sam Jefferson at the Dome? Or at least since Bowman fouled the guy on the 3 in the last few seconds? I know it was an effort foul, but you HAVE to be smarter there.
Then again, if Peak doesn't foul, we would have just let Trimble stroll to the basket unimpeded again. At least with the foul, we had a few seconds left to try to do something (I don't think Jagan coast to coast is our preferred go-to last second strategy.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 16, 2016 10:26:16 GMT -5
Was LJ's foul 70 feet from the basket the worst Hoya foul since Sam Jefferson at the Dome? Or at least since Bowman fouled the guy on the 3 in the last few seconds? I know it was an effort foul, but you HAVE to be smarter there. Then again, if Peak doesn't foul, we would have just let Trimble stroll to the basket unimpeded again. At least with the foul, we had a few seconds left to try to do something (I don't think Jagan coast to coast is our preferred go-to last second strategy. Yeah, when Campbell stepped out, I knew it was over. Credit the Hoyas for always keeping me on my toes for horribly dramatic losses. I was sure it was going to be Trimble driving the lane and getting fouled with 1 second left. But, that wasnt good painful enough for us...They had to step it up!
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