eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on May 30, 2016 1:12:55 GMT -5
If it's not his on campus popularity keeping his job and he's only dealing in W/L results then how is he still here? 3 Big East Championships, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 8 NCAA Tournament Appearances in 12 years, 1 Big East Tournament Championship, 65.5% winning Percentage. The fact that people are calling for his head is a joke. He's earned plenty of time to turn us around after all he's accomplished. No one's happy about last year, but people act like we didn't just finish 2nd in the BE the year before and go to the NCAA tournament. What era of basketball do you speak of? We have flamed out every year since 2007 so to bring this up is disingenuous and only the lackey's (and I see they are always right there on cue) will like this post. Very predictable from this board but at least try to be realistic about what we have achieved since 2007.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 30, 2016 1:42:14 GMT -5
3 Big East Championships, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 8 NCAA Tournament Appearances in 12 years, 1 Big East Tournament Championship, 65.5% winning Percentage. The fact that people are calling for his head is a joke. He's earned plenty of time to turn us around after all he's accomplished. No one's happy about last year, but people act like we didn't just finish 2nd in the BE the year before and go to the NCAA tournament. What era of basketball do you speak of? We have flamed out every year since 2007 so to bring this up is disingenuous and only the lackey's (and I see they are always right there on cue) will like this post. Very predictable from this board but at least try to be realistic about what we have achieved since 2007. The huge disconnect here is simply how one values March versus everything else. First, there's no doubt we've under achieved in March. I don't think anybody would dispute that. People might try to explain some of the losses as better or worse than others but still we lost. I get that. Second, the fact is Georgetown has had regular season success, which has yielded many good NCAA seeds during the same time we've underachieved once we've actually started playing in the tournament. Without good regular seasons we wouldn't get good seeds. Yes, maybe the tournament committee overrated the team a year or two by one or two seed positions but that's really not significant. The fact that the team got to the tournament with such high seeds is an accomplishment. Granted, that may mean very little to you but to others, it is a meaningful accomplishment. Now, if you value March success as the most important factor, of course you will believe that there has been a major problem. However, if you believe that the regular season also has a fair amount of significance, then those folks will be less concerned. People use examples of other programs that have not made many Sweet 16s and have had a series of coaching changes. In reality, Georgetown's situation is actually quite unique. It is simply not common for a team to make the tournament with such a high seed on a consistent basis, and do poorly in the tournament. That's why in many other situations it may be a no-brainer to replace a coach, whereas the situation might be different here. Personally, my belief is that if you had to the tournament and of times with a fairly high season, that eventually you will break through and have success. It has happened to other coaches, and I think it can happen at Georgetown.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:28:30 GMT -5
Yes, lots of them. I think your post needs more quotation marks. You should go back and edit it to add more. 1) Poor troll. Didn't even include a question. 2) Who? Of the 20 teams with as many or more tournament appearances than us, only two have failed to reach the Sweet 16 at least twice in the last 12 years: Temple and Arkansas. Both have had multiple coaches in that span. Pretty sure Fran Dunphy has been at Temple as long as 3 has been here fwiw... 15 yrs for Temple since last Sweet 16 20 for Ark...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 30, 2016 4:53:35 GMT -5
What era of basketball do you speak of? We have flamed out every year since 2007 so to bring this up is disingenuous and only the lackey's (and I see they are always right there on cue) will like this post. Very predictable from this board but at least try to be realistic about what we have achieved since 2007. The huge disconnect here is simply how one values March versus everything else. First, there's no doubt we've under achieved in March. I don't think anybody would dispute that. People might try to explain some of the losses as better or worse than others but still we lost. I get that. It doesn't matter what we think of it, it is more about how fans of sports in general, the media and even the TV viewing audience thinks of it. College basketball has become ALL ABOUT what a team does in March. As football, both college and pro, keep sucking up more and more attention as its seasons extend further into the winter, the hardcore sports fans increasingly only pay attention to what a team does in March (and if lucky, April). Not as many people pay attention to the regular season and with a million games being played on ESPN from November to the first week of March, a lot of sports fans find it a bit overwhelming to keep up with college hoops (Or they don't put in the effort). Thus they pay little attention to what teams are doing in the regular season unless those teams are the true blue bloods or unless those teams have frosh sensations that people are interested in because of the NBA draft. So March and the tournament becomes the one time in which college basketball gets to be at the front of the stage and because of this in the eyes of the public what a team does during that period is all that matters. And to be blunt the media has pretty much taken this cue as well. How many @#%* times do you have to hear professional sports radio talkshow hosts or sports columnists being interviewed admit, just as the tourney is beginning, that they haven't kept up with the college bball season and therefore they will have some difficulty with their brackets? I hear it every year now going on over a decade. You would think such paid "professionals" would be worried about telling people they haven't done their job by keeping it up with a major sport like college basketball, but these folks don't have a problem stating they don't keep up because they realize the public hasn't kept up either and therefore there won't be any retribution. The media also pretty much determines the strength of and respect for a program based upon what that team does in March. If Josh Hart had not returned to Villanova the Wildcats would have still been, despite losing three starters and double figure scorers, a pre-season top 25 team to those in the media, right or wrong. That would have largely been the result of the perception the media had of Villanova when it last saw them: cutting down the nets after the championship game. Meanwhile some of III's trams have only had to deal with the loss of one player after a very successful regular season but don't get many if any pre-season votes the following year. Why? Because in almost every instance the last image the media had of the Hoyas were of them failing to live up to their seeding by exiting the tournament early. And that has been the Hoyas' MO since 2007 : early exits. I'm sorry but a coach's Final Four run (and we're talking just about a F4 appearance, not a national championship) is kinda cancelled out when the same coach breaks a record for the most consecutive years that a team as a high seed loses in the first round. It is also kinda cancelled out when that same program hasn't done much of anything in the tournament since that F4 appearance. So that is almost a decade of being inconsequential WHEN IT MATTERS in college basketball to college hoops fans, the casual sports viewers, the media and to elite recruits. When the world is actually watching and paying attention that is typically when Gtown is failing. And, no, making it to the second round three times during that stretch don't mean jack if each time the team was seeded with the expectation of going much further. Besides....three years during that span the Hoyas fail to make the tourney at all. While III has undeniably done some terrific things for the program and has had some great regular seasons, the truth is that if this program was more high profile and operated, good or bad, like most D1 schools he likely would have been fired by now. There were guys who actually won championships and were still pushed out the door because of a string of disappointing seasons that followed. If III was coaching in a professional league he would have been let go because no one gives two cents what the coach's record is during the regular season or that the coach got his teams to the cusp of a championship game nine years ago. It is all about what you have done for me lately. And the tired excuses of how the opposing team should have been a higher seed or that the Hoyas ran into a stud player (like Curry whom last time I checked didn't win any national championship games at college which meant other teams found ways to defeat Davidson) or that the Hoyas just weren't as good as their seeding have just become even more tired over the years. Let me add it doesn't help that III never takes sole public accountability for any of his team's failings. He never calls himself out and puts the onus squarely on himself or say he has to do better or that such and such loss was on him. At best he may use the word "we" and proclaim "we as a team have to do better, blah, blah, blah". At best. Most times he shifts blame on his players and tell the press that the players have to improve on something or have to be better at something or have to pass the ball better. And there of course is the obligatory "the shots didn't fall but they will eventually". Granted some many argue that when he makes criticism of players or of how the team is playing overall he s actually being critical of himself. Possible...debatable. But even if he doesn't feel he has done anything wrong as coach can't he at least fake it and take more of the blame is post game interviews? Such talk may be superficial but they nonetheless serve an important role in assuring fans that the coach can see his own mistakes.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 30, 2016 8:29:40 GMT -5
While III has undeniably done some terrific things for the program and has had some great regular seasons, the truth is that if this program was more high profile and operated, good or bad, like most D1 schools he likely would have been fired by now. There were guys who actually won championships and were still pushed out the door because of a string of disappointing seasons that followed. If III was coaching in a professional league he would have been let go because no one gives two cents what the coach's record is during the regular season or that the coach got his teams to the cusp of a championship game nine years ago. It is all about what you have done for me lately. And the tired excuses of how the opposing team should have been a higher seed or that the Hoyas ran into a stud player (like Curry whom last time I checked didn't win any national championship games at college which meant other teams found ways to defeat Davidson) or that the Hoyas just weren't as good as their seeding have just become even more tired over the years. It was said many years ago what the expectations of coaches were at Georgetown. Like it or not, post-season results were not mentioned. "These are the three commitments we ask you to make when you accept the responsibility for this program: You accept the challenge of coaching in a university that places the highest priority on the academic performance of our students. We do not meet our mission if each of these young men do not perform to the best of their abilities in the classroom. You accept the challenge of setting the highest possible moral standards in the execution of our mission. And you accept the challenge of ensuring that our young men are prepared to go out on the court and win basketball games." --Jack DeGioia, April 11, 2003
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on May 30, 2016 8:37:37 GMT -5
2 sweet 16s in 12 years. Would any other "major" program accept that and say that coach has "earned plenty of time" to turn it around? Perpetual Big East Coach of the Year Mike Brey had one sweet 16 in 13 seasons and finished 15-17 just two years ago. He turned it around, didn't he? Would any other "major" program say JTIII has "earned plenty of time" to turn it around... ...because he has only coached in 2 Sweet 16s in 12 years... ...which is a similar to a run MIKE BREY had... ...who is the former boss of NEW ASST COACH - ND'S ANTHONY SOLOMON! YAAAAAAAY! I love playing Six Degrees of a Hoyatalk Thread.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 30, 2016 8:57:15 GMT -5
Echoing FLHoya, is it too much to ask to simply discuss the thread topic? There are ample threads here that have pages and pages of the same tired 'III is a flameout' 'no he's not' argument replete with the same tired 'then you're an idiot' 'no, you're a bigger one' posts. Go spew those there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 11:22:32 GMT -5
I like that he got 2 guys that have a track record of recruiting and developing talent. Hopefully they make a major impact in both areas...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 30, 2016 13:10:17 GMT -5
While III has undeniably done some terrific things for the program and has had some great regular seasons, the truth is that if this program was more high profile and operated, good or bad, like most D1 schools he likely would have been fired by now. There were guys who actually won championships and were still pushed out the door because of a string of disappointing seasons that followed. If III was coaching in a professional league he would have been let go because no one gives two cents what the coach's record is during the regular season or that the coach got his teams to the cusp of a championship game nine years ago. It is all about what you have done for me lately. And the tired excuses of how the opposing team should have been a higher seed or that the Hoyas ran into a stud player (like Curry whom last time I checked didn't win any national championship games at college which meant other teams found ways to defeat Davidson) or that the Hoyas just weren't as good as their seeding have just become even more tired over the years. It was said many years ago what the expectations of coaches were at Georgetown. Like it or not, post-season results were not mentioned. "These are the three commitments we ask you to make when you accept the responsibility for this program: You accept the challenge of coaching in a university that places the highest priority on the academic performance of our students. We do not meet our mission if each of these young men do not perform to the best of their abilities in the classroom. You accept the challenge of setting the highest possible moral standards in the execution of our mission. And you accept the challenge of ensuring that our young men are prepared to go out on the court and win basketball games." --Jack DeGioia, April 11, 2003 Which is why I wrote above : the truth is that if this program was more high profile and operated, good or bad, like most D1 schools he likely would have been fired by now
So I think I have that part covered. For better or worse Gtown does not operate like a normal high profile D1 school, particularly one striving to win championships fair and square. Of course an argument could be made that maybe, under those stated goals, Coach Esherick could have gotten a couple of more years at the helm too rather than being let go. But I doubt any of what I write would get through much of the herd-mentality of this board. Anyway as pointed out earlier this has gotten off topic. So I'll add that these current two hires by III appear to be very good ones. Positive results should come from them.
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Post by Problem of Dog on May 30, 2016 17:14:34 GMT -5
1) Poor troll. Didn't even include a question. 2) Who? Of the 20 teams with as many or more tournament appearances than us, only two have failed to reach the Sweet 16 at least twice in the last 12 years: Temple and Arkansas. Both have had multiple coaches in that span. Pretty sure Fran Dunphy has been at Temple as long as 3 has been here fwiw... 15 yrs for Temple since last Sweet 16 20 for Ark... 2 years less. In the last 9 years, both have been at their school without a Sweet Sixteen. Also, I'm being generous with my criteria, since I don't think many see the A10 or AAC as a major conference, or Temple as a major program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:45:18 GMT -5
Pretty sure Fran Dunphy has been at Temple as long as 3 has been here fwiw... 15 yrs for Temple since last Sweet 16 20 for Ark... 2 years less. In the last 9 years, both have been at their school without a Sweet Sixteen. Also, I'm being generous with my criteria, since I don't think many see the A10 or AAC as a major conference, or Temple as a major program. You said they had multiple coaching changes that's what I was responding 2. Temple has had a nice program under Dunphy regardless though imo. Ark has struggled after Norm Robinson a great bit. I personally think that criteria is a bit silly considering nobody would say the SEC isn't a major conference but they have less bids over the last 3 years than the A10. The AAC won a Chip in that span. The HM vs MM whatever major stuff is kid of silly at this point imo, folks were saying the same thing about the BE before last year. Hopefully Solomon has some magic, ND hasn't been to a sweet 16 without him on the bench.
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Post by Problem of Dog on May 31, 2016 23:51:09 GMT -5
2 years less. In the last 9 years, both have been at their school without a Sweet Sixteen. Also, I'm being generous with my criteria, since I don't think many see the A10 or AAC as a major conference, or Temple as a major program. You said they had multiple coaching changes that's what I was responding 2. Temple has had a nice program under Dunphy regardless though imo. Ark has struggled after Norm Robinson a great bit. I personally think that criteria is a bit silly considering nobody would say the SEC isn't a major conference but they have less bids over the last 3 years than the A10. The AAC won a Chip in that span. The HM vs MM whatever major stuff is kid of silly at this point imo, folks were saying the same thing about the BE before last year. Hopefully Solomon has some magic, ND hasn't been to a sweet 16 without him on the bench. With regard to my definition of major program, I'm not trying to say HM or MM, just that we consider ourselves a big time program, and comparable programs change coaches when they don't make it to the Sweet Sixteen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 10:42:06 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 1, 2016 11:06:16 GMT -5
It bears reminding that Twitter is not journalism. Just because a reporter says something does not make it true.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jun 1, 2016 11:14:45 GMT -5
On the immediate impact of Coach Solomon -- before official announcement: www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/news/st-johns-georgetown-relentless-for-2019-stars-lewis-antoine/181447212Meantime, Georgetown's hiring of former Notre Dame assistant Anthony Solomon seems to be paying immediate dividends. "Solomon went over to Georgetown and he was in real early with these guys," Klatsky said. "What he said back in December was that the fact that you guys are here at Ranney School proves that you're going to develop the right habits to be successful at Notre Dame. And that's the kind of kid we need to recruit. And obviously him going over to Georgetown, he has the same feelings for them whether it's Notre Dame or Georgetown. "So they had developed an early relationship with Notre Dame and now both Notre Dame and Georgetown are interested with him moving."
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Jun 1, 2016 12:53:21 GMT -5
Fwiw - it's also on the Georgetown bball Facebook page.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 1, 2016 13:10:31 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 3, 2016 0:18:30 GMT -5
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jun 9, 2016 12:46:40 GMT -5
COACH SOLOMON IS THE KEY TO A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. WE GOT THE GUARDS NOW LET'S MOVE EM! EVERYTHING ELSE WILL FALL INTO PLACE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 11:18:53 GMT -5
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