Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 23, 2016 11:44:22 GMT -5
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 23, 2016 13:58:35 GMT -5
Who's picking anything and what kind of message board is this that you can't have a discussion? You act like this is some high school program. If you want the continued group think, then create one thread (titled "group think") and I'll avoid any posts so you can have your utopia. Be real 54, you're snipin' right now.. In 2 threads you've pushed the "Folks can stop pretending gtown doesn't do what other programs do" theory(I agree with this btw) Or posting that folks are acting like Hayes is Kareem or Hakeem, no one is doing that.. Actually my bad, do you 54.. Sniping now? When is he not? He and MCI, SMH... Broken records.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 16:15:48 GMT -5
Be real 54, you're snipin' right now.. In 2 threads you've pushed the "Folks can stop pretending gtown doesn't do what other programs do" theory(I agree with this btw) Or posting that folks are acting like Hayes is Kareem or Hakeem, no one is doing that.. Actually my bad, do you 54.. Sniping now? When is he not? He and MCI, SMH... Broken records. Actually this is really not about me; I'm not on trial here. This also has nothing to do about broken records. A better analogy would be many of you folks spinning the same old song about trusting the coach. Let's be clear....III has EARNED many doubts and criticisms. If you want to fawn over every decision and excuse every outcome then so be it but don't get a hissy fit if I am a bit more dubious. Sorry if I failed to reach the Yes Man status that you appeared to have attained but it wasn't as if I was exactly striving to achieve that level of gullibility. And while we are it I noticed that many of you don't rush in and defend players when they are trashed or people cast doubts about them. Some of you even take part in the derision of players. But the coach is hands off? Good to know. Here's the thing....despite all the whining about me going after III you don't find me ripping his recruiting decisions or expressing doubts about players he brings into the program before or AFTER they suit up as Hoyas. But God forbid I criticize how he handled Hayes as a player and his move to get him back for a fifth year. Such remarks by me can't stand, making people go on the defensive....which is arguably just as repetitive as my criticisms of III are to many of you.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2016 16:20:41 GMT -5
Sniping now? When is he not? He and MCI, SMH... Broken records. Actually this is really not about me; I'm not on trial here. This also has nothing to do about broken records. A better analogy would be many of you folks spinning the same old song about trusting the coach. Let's be clear....III has EARNED many doubts and criticisms. If you want to fawn over every decision and excuse every outcome then so be it but don't get a hissy fit if I am a bit more dubious. Sorry if I failed to reach the Yes Man status that you appeared to have attained but it wasn't as if I was exactly striving to achieve that level of gullibility. And while we are it I noticed that many of you don't rush in and defend players when they are trashed or people cast doubts about them. Some of you even take part in the derision of players. But the coach is hands off? Good to know. Here's the thing....despite all the whining about me going after III you don't find me ripping his recruiting decisions or expressing doubts about players he brings into the program before or AFTER they suit up as Hoyas. But God forbid I criticize how he handled Hayes as a player and his move to get him back for a fifth year. Such remarks by me can't stand, making people go on the defensive....which is arguably just as repetitive as my criticisms of III are to many of you. So which is it? Do you want Hayes here or not. And why are you saying "the damage has been done" if you want him here.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 16:27:55 GMT -5
Easy Professor. Let's all take a breath and realize it's not Kareem or Olajuwon coming back which is how this board is reacting. I think this hurts in that he doesn't fit with the makeup of this current roster and will hold younger players back from playing time, being themselves and moving on. I think it can never hurt to have options; this allows us the chance to pound it inside against teams that struggle to defend a true center. That said, it will definitely be on the staff to recognize when Bradley can be a weapon vs. when the game/opponent is too quick for B. to be on the court. You see I don't even think its about yanking him when he is not quick enough to guard smaller bigs. To me it is more about playing him for 20 or so minutes (if there isn't any foul trouble) and keep pounding the ball into him. Make the smaller team pay for being small and let Hayes score on them. Then pull him for Govan and let him go to work doing the same. Just make it relentless. No holding back; rough the opposing teams inside, get their players into foul trouble, dominate the boards with a steady flow of fresh legged big men. For Hayes I don't want to see him in the highpost unless he is trying to set screens, I don't need the offense running through him from that part of the court. I want him inside the paint doing damage, help wearing the opponents down.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 16:33:56 GMT -5
Actually this is really not about me; I'm not on trial here. This also has nothing to do about broken records. A better analogy would be many of you folks spinning the same old song about trusting the coach. Let's be clear....III has EARNED many doubts and criticisms. If you want to fawn over every decision and excuse every outcome then so be it but don't get a hissy fit if I am a bit more dubious. Sorry if I failed to reach the Yes Man status that you appeared to have attained but it wasn't as if I was exactly striving to achieve that level of gullibility. And while we are it I noticed that many of you don't rush in and defend players when they are trashed or people cast doubts about them. Some of you even take part in the derision of players. But the coach is hands off? Good to know. Here's the thing....despite all the whining about me going after III you don't find me ripping his recruiting decisions or expressing doubts about players he brings into the program before or AFTER they suit up as Hoyas. But God forbid I criticize how he handled Hayes as a player and his move to get him back for a fifth year. Such remarks by me can't stand, making people go on the defensive....which is arguably just as repetitive as my criticisms of III are to many of you. So which is it? Do you want Hayes here or not. And why are you saying "the damage has been done" if you want him here. I think my preference was clear. I preferred to move on from the DSR-Hayes era. But if the decision is made (which is a my less hyperbolic way of saying the damage is done) then I have no choice but to accept it and hope for the best. I hope Hayes has a GREAT season, great enough to make me eat my words. I will be rooting for him. As I've pointed out before I think Hayes is talented. I think he may even have a shot a an NBA career going the backdoor route ala Henry Sims and Hollis Thompson (in other words....not drafted, playing in the D-league first). My doubts/concerns lay more with how I think III will both use him and utilize his roster.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2016 16:38:19 GMT -5
So which is it? Do you want Hayes here or not. And why are you saying "the damage has been done" if you want him here. I think my preference was clear. I preferred to move on from the DSR-Hayes era. But if the decision is made (which is a my less hyperbolic way of saying the damage is done) then I have no choice but to accept it and hope for the best. I hope Hayes has a GREAT season, great enough to make me eat my words. I will be rooting for him. As I've pointed out before I think Hayes is talented. I think he may even have a shot a an NBA career going the backdoor route ala Henry Sims and Hollis Thompson (in other words....not drafted, playing in the D-league first). My doubts/concerns lay more with how I think III will both use him and utilize his roster. I guess what I don't understand is that on one hand you seem pretty vocal that Bradley Hayes get a 5th year. And that it's III's fault that Hayes didn't get a 5th year. But here he is getting a 5th year and you don't want him to get that 5th year now. So those two things seem contradictory.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 23, 2016 17:23:57 GMT -5
Happy for the kid, now please spend the summer practicing quickness, particularly lateral quickness, and strengthen those hands. Also would be helpful to try and add a passable 7-10 foot shot if he is going to be played out top again.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 23, 2016 17:56:15 GMT -5
I think it can never hurt to have options; this allows us the chance to pound it inside against teams that struggle to defend a true center. That said, it will definitely be on the staff to recognize when Bradley can be a weapon vs. when the game/opponent is too quick for B. to be on the court. You see I don't even think its about yanking him when he is not quick enough to guard smaller bigs. To me it is more about playing him for 20 or so minutes (if there isn't any foul trouble) and keep pounding the ball into him. Make the smaller team pay for being small and let Hayes score on them. Then pull him for Govan and let him go to work doing the same. Just make it relentless. No holding back; rough the opposing teams inside, get their players into foul trouble, dominate the boards with a steady flow of fresh legged big men. For Hayes I don't want to see him in the highpost unless he is trying to set screens, I don't need the offense running through him from that part of the court. I want him inside the paint doing damage, help wearing the opponents down. I can certainly get with that.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Apr 23, 2016 18:22:55 GMT -5
Hayes is by no means Patrick Ewing. But he was as good a low post player as I saw in college last year. Pretty good rebounder as well. Obviously, if he could shoot outside and play defense, as well, he'd be in the NBA by now. Overall, seems like a good kid, who has shown amazing improvement. Thrilled to have him back.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Apr 23, 2016 18:46:07 GMT -5
Hayes I recommend in the off season that you work on your foot movement, your mid-range jumper, and defense around the rim.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Apr 23, 2016 20:55:15 GMT -5
I think my preference was clear. I preferred to move on from the DSR-Hayes era. But if the decision is made (which is a my less hyperbolic way of saying the damage is done) then I have no choice but to accept it and hope for the best. I hope Hayes has a GREAT season, great enough to make me eat my words. I will be rooting for him. As I've pointed out before I think Hayes is talented. I think he may even have a shot a an NBA career going the backdoor route ala Henry Sims and Hollis Thompson (in other words....not drafted, playing in the D-league first). My doubts/concerns lay more with how I think III will both use him and utilize his roster. I guess what I don't understand is that on one hand you seem pretty vocal that Bradley Hayes get a 5th year. And that it's III's fault that Hayes didn't get a 5th year. But here he is getting a 5th year and you don't want him to get that 5th year now. So those two things seem contradictory. I think it's that he didn't want Hayes for a fifth year because it won't really help move us forward and may hold some others back. It's a separate more general argument to say the staff should have made the red shirt call earlier on Hayes or any player that they think can develop and aren't getting time. Let's not confuse the two.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 21:56:39 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2016 22:15:18 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on. From the sounds of it the reason he received the hardship exception was because his father died during his senior year in high school. If you look at the rules, the clock starts ticking on the first day of your senior year of high school. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread and before the decision, family illness is one of the ways one can get a hardship exception. Combine that with the fact that he played less than 30% of the games and only 14 minutes or something and the. redshirt was always there. It was just a matter of Bradley and III deciding to use it. I know you like to promote this idea that III was just using BJ and was gonna discard him in the trash if he didn't pan out but from every interview BJ has given he said how much it meant to him that III was there for him during his senior year of high school when his dad suddenly died. Some of his friends wanted him to transfer for more PT but Hayes stuck win the program because of the relationship with III and how much that meant to him. So I find it rather disingenuous to insinuate that III somehow used this kids like some kind of discardable commodity. Read the Hayes interviews and you will get a much better perspective on the subject than the party line that some are spewing.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Apr 23, 2016 22:21:45 GMT -5
Can we all just agree that a good kid, who happens to have some nice offensive skills at 7 ft tall, is coming back for an unexpected fifth year..and that is good news for all concerned?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 23, 2016 22:37:52 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on. You never request the hardship waiver until the end of their career. This could have been the plan since that freshman season. It doesn't make sense to request it until you need it because you could end up having a better option by the time you would request it and then you can go ahead and not request it.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 23, 2016 23:03:56 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on. You never request the hardship waiver until the end of their career. This could have been the plan since that freshman season. It doesn't make sense to request it until you need it because you could end up having a better option by the time you would request it and then you can go ahead and not request it. I don't think this is the case because it hurts the player, in actuality it's the player who applies not the school.. Even if Gtown had pulled Harry Giles for next season, Hayes should have still applied so he could use his 5th year at another school.. Not to mention we knew that both Moses & Aaron had medical red shirt waivers long before they graduated..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 23, 2016 23:11:09 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on. From the sounds of it the reason he received the hardship exception was because his father died during his senior year in high school. If you look at the rules, the clock starts ticking on the first day of your senior year of high school. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread and before the decision, family illness is one of the ways one can get a hardship exception. Combine that with the fact that he played less than 30% of the games and only 14 minutes or something and the. redshirt was always there. It was just a matter of Bradley and III deciding to use it. I know you like to promote this idea that III was just using BJ and was gonna discard him in the trash if he didn't pan out but from every interview BJ has given he said how much it meant to him that III was there for him during his senior year of high school when his dad suddenly died. Some of his friends wanted him to transfer for more PT but Hayes stuck win the program because of the relationship with III and how much that meant to him. So I find it rather disingenuous to insinuate that III somehow used this kids like some kind of discardable commodity. Read the Hayes interviews and you will get a much better perspective on the subject than the party line that some are spewing. I'm pretty sure his father passed away during his freshman year, there was an article stating that JT3 stayed with him in his dorm room the night he found out.. IIRC JT3 also flew back to Florida with him for the funeral, Hayes said after that he knew he'd be a Hoya for life.. Also Medical redshirts are different from normal RS's(the type Mikal Bridges from Nova had his freshman season) where a program just states that they aren't going to play a kid during the season.. That's the type of RS Hayes should have gotten when he 1st came to Gtown.. Honestly they could/should have done it his Soph season also.. All of this was talked about like crazy in the 60 page Hayes thread on the main board 2 years ago, it's not a new topic.. If we're being honest, folks would have to admit that if Hayes had a season like Moses did his RS Jr. year, he more than likely wouldn't be coming back.. MCI is not way out there making this assumption or saying the staff lacked a plan for Hayes, in the end it worked out which is a very good thing imo..
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 24, 2016 9:35:09 GMT -5
You never request the hardship waiver until the end of their career. This could have been the plan since that freshman season. It doesn't make sense to request it until you need it because you could end up having a better option by the time you would request it and then you can go ahead and not request it. I don't think is the case because it hurts the player, in actuality it's the player who applies not the school.. Even if Gtown had pulled Harry Giles for next season, Hayes should have still applied so he could use his 5th year at another school.. Not to mention we knew that both Moses & Aaron had medical red shirt waivers long before they graduated.. Well I know you don't have to apply right after the season you're asking for you can ask for it at any time. And I don't think it was formerly announced before their senior years for Moses or Aaron. We were able to assume because they had known injuries, while Hayes did not. But whatever doesn't matter. Glad to have Hayes back.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 24, 2016 10:54:57 GMT -5
Was never vocal regarding Hayes getting a fifth year. What I stressed was how III could have been spared trying to get a last minute approval of an extra year from the NCAA by redshirting Hayes in his first season when he pretty much never used him. That would have made me feel as if III had a plan or an idea how to bring Hayes along. Instead the impression I get is that III had never seriously contemplated seeking that fifth year from Hayes until he discovered Hayes could, you know, actually play and thus fell in love with him all of a sudden. Ask yourself this....if Hayes' injury that led to this granting of the fifth year happened during Hayes' freshman season, why did III wait until Hayes was a senior before he sought this extension? I'm pretty sure he could have tried to get this done for Hayes in the prior years, however if I'm wrong on that front please correct me. It would seem it wasn't on III's agenda to secure that extra year until he suddenly became impressed with Hayes' performance. No crime in that, but it leaves me with the feeling that the coach had little faith in this player whom he initially believed to have upside when he offered him a schollie or that III didn't trust in Hayes' ability to perform for pretty much three seasons. Again as I've written already I feel that III should have accelerated Hayes' learning curve by giving steady but limited minutes early on. But if he was going to use the option of not playing him at all his frosh season (which was pretty much how it turned out) then giving him a redshirt year his first season would have probably been best. That's just my opinion but apparently that still upsets some of the usual suspects. I think however we can all agree that what's done is done and we hope for the best. Time to move on. Since when does III show his hand? He applied for the fifth year at a regular time to apply and got it. You're literally complaining about nothing. Maybe your post would make a little more sense if it was denied, but it wasn't. For all you know this was the plan from day 1 and Brad wanted to surprise people. But much more likely is that the hardship Brad faced was not fully recognized until distancing himself from the situation. The waiver was more than just about being in a cast for part of freshman year
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