B Hayes returning for 5th year

[HometownHoya]

If the staff is applying for a 5th year for Hayes, I assume that means we have 1 more open scholarship (or Mourning has the option to drop his). If that is the case, who would you rather have: Hayes or Thompson?

[dreamhoya]

Hayes = space for Lykes, right? (or is it Pryor)

[dense]

Apr 18, 2016 13:03:12 GMT -5 dreamhoya said:

Hayes = space for Lykes, right? (or is it Pryor)

Pryor is space for Lykes

[dreamhoya]

Well where does that leave Hayes?

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Apr 18, 2016 14:10:34 GMT -5 dreamhoya said:

Well where does that leave Hayes?

If Hayes got an extra year then I believe Mourning would go down to walk on status and give up his scholarship as has been done by multiple other teams in the past. #speculation #canwepleasenotturnthisintoabigdebate

[RBHoya]

Apr 18, 2016 12:59:11 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

If the staff is applying for a 5th year for Hayes, I assume that means we have 1 more open scholarship (or Mourning has the option to drop his). If that is the case, who would you rather have: Hayes or Thompson?

This may be a minority opinion, but I'd love to nab Thompson even over a veteran Hayes (+ an extra 2017 scholarship). I think Thompson is going to be excellent and his style of play for the center position I think would work nicely with the direction the game is moving. He's athletic enough to play uptempo and can switch competently onto perimeter players as needed. Sort of like Mikael Hopkins, but with offensive ability too. I think that's the future of the center position, especially as our team moves to a more uptempo style.

So not really a knock on Hayes, but I think Taurean is for real and if there's any way we can land him, we have to do it. Would also mean we wouldn't need to find a center in 2017, where the prospects aren't looking fantastic for any of the big fish right now.

And FWIW I like Antwan Walker too and would love to have him. I know I'm getting greedy now but I'd love to keep bringing new blood and energy in at this point. The offseason has been great thus far but if there's a way to get Thompson or Walker in too, it'd be an ENORMOUS spring for the staff and exactly what was needed after last season. If forced to choose I'd say Thompson >> Walker >> 5th year of Hayes, but any of those would be a positive over standing pat with what we have right now.

[prhoya]

Apr 18, 2016 12:59:11 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

If the staff is applying for a 5th year for Hayes, I assume that means we have 1 more open scholarship (or Mourning has the option to drop his). If that is the case, who would you rather have: Hayes or Thompson?

Hayes! A year older Hayes will be a monster! If our offense, with the new weapons (Pryor and JMu) and the old "weapons" a year older, finally performs at a consistent level, Hayes would face a lot of one-vs-ones instead of the collapsing triple teams he got this year when we were missing open 3-pointers. If he added a move or two or use the bank more, it would be too easy for him. After last season, it is about winning right now with a sense of urgency (as it should be), not preparing someone for down the line. Besides, you have Govan, AA and Mourning getting more seasoning without the pressure of performing right now.

[goyahoya69]

Wait .. Is a 5th year for Hayes actually being sought? Where did anyone hear about this?

[LCPolo18]

Apr 18, 2016 16:21:16 GMT -5 goyahoya69 said:

Wait .. Is a 5th year for Hayes actually being sought? Where did anyone hear about this?

Probably not the best place (except that it could impact any possible 2016 available scholarship for Thompson), but it's been reported that the university is petitioning for another year of eligibility for Hayes per Standig. CasualHoya also confirmed the report.

www.csnmidatlantic.com/ncaa/hoyas-land-key-graduate-transfer-2016-17-season

There is some question about whether Georgetown can successfully petition the NCAA to grant 7-foot-0 senior Bradley Hayes an additional redshirt season. The Hoyas top interior threat last season, Hayes only played 14 minutes as a freshman. If a redshirt season is possible, another slot must open for Hayes to return.

[goyahoya69]

Apr 18, 2016 16:28:51 GMT -5 LCPolo18 said:

Apr 18, 2016 16:21:16 GMT -5 goyahoya69 said:

Wait .. Is a 5th year for Hayes actually being sought? Where did anyone hear about this?

Probably not the best place (except that it could impact any possible 2016 available scholarship for Thompson), but it's been reported that the university is petitioning for another year of eligibility for Hayes per Standig. CasualHoya also confirmed the report.

www.csnmidatlantic.com/ncaa/hoyas-land-key-graduate-transfer-2016-17-season

There is some question about whether Georgetown can successfully petition the NCAA to grant 7-foot-0 senior Bradley Hayes an additional redshirt season. The Hoyas top interior threat last season, Hayes only played 14 minutes as a freshman. If a redshirt season is possible, another slot must open for Hayes to return.

whoa. didnt see that coming. i love it and hate it at the same time. love it cause he definitely brings some more offensive juice and hopefully realizes that if he gets more fit, he'll be more mobile on defense. hate it b/c i assume it means mourning would turn into a walk-on, which seems like a tiny slap in the face at first, until you realize that he'd be giving up his scholly for someone who's going to bump him down the depth chart. can't imagine him being happy about that.

[hoyarooter]

Is the chance of Hayes actually being granted a redshirt year now much greater than zero? Wouldn't this revolutionize the redshirt rule? I wouldn't mind having Hayes back for a fifth year, but if three years later a team could say hey, this guy hardly played three years ago, so we would now like to treat that freshman year as a redshirt year, I think it pretty much makes a mockery of the rule.

[bicentennial]

It would be a medical redshirt and it does not need to be applied for until when you are going to use it. You would have to document a potentially season ending injury to qualify.

[DFW HOYA]

Apr 18, 2016 18:01:59 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

Is the chance of Hayes actually being granted a redshirt year now much greater than zero? Wouldn't this revolutionize the redshirt rule? I wouldn't mind having Hayes back for a fifth year, but if three years later a team could say hey, this guy hardly played three years ago, so we would now like to treat that freshman year as a redshirt year, I think it pretty much makes a mockery of the rule.

It's about zero. I think Ben Standig has been reading too much HoyaTalk.

"For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:
The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided."

Hayes played in nine of 32 games as a freshman (28%) including four in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 16 of 33 games as a sophomore (48%) including ten in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 17 of 33 games as a junior (51%) including 12 in Big East play. No injury was reported.

This does not qualify as a medical redshirt.

[dreamhoya]

Apr 18, 2016 19:12:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Apr 18, 2016 18:01:59 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

Is the chance of Hayes actually being granted a redshirt year now much greater than zero? Wouldn't this revolutionize the redshirt rule? I wouldn't mind having Hayes back for a fifth year, but if three years later a team could say hey, this guy hardly played three years ago, so we would now like to treat that freshman year as a redshirt year, I think it pretty much makes a mockery of the rule.

It's about zero. I think Ben Standig has been reading too much HoyaTalk.

"For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:
The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided."

Hayes played in nine of 32 games as a freshman (28%) including four in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 16 of 33 games as a sophomore (48%) including ten in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 17 of 33 games as a junior (51%) including 12 in Big East play. No injury was reported.

This does not qualify as a medical redshirt.

...well why are they even applying?

[hoyasaxa2003]

Apr 18, 2016 19:59:40 GMT -5 dreamhoya said:

Apr 18, 2016 19:12:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

It's about zero. I think Ben Standig has been reading too much HoyaTalk.

"For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:
The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided."

Hayes played in nine of 32 games as a freshman (28%) including four in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 16 of 33 games as a sophomore (48%) including ten in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 17 of 33 games as a junior (51%) including 12 in Big East play. No injury was reported.

This does not qualify as a medical redshirt.

...well why are they even applying?

Hayes may want it. JT3 may want it, who knows. They've had success with these things before so my guess is they view it as a no downside proposition with possible upside. In this case, I agree with DFW and a few others. It would make a mockery of the rules.

The only reason this is a possibility is the complete unpredictable way in which the NCAA handles these things.

[professorhoya]

Apr 18, 2016 16:21:16 GMT -5 goyahoya69 said:

Wait .. Is a 5th year for Hayes actually being sought? Where did anyone hear about this?

Lichihoya first mentioned it.

[SaxaCD]

Apr 18, 2016 21:30:17 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Apr 18, 2016 19:59:40 GMT -5 dreamhoya said:

...well why are they even applying?

Hayes may want it. JT3 may want it, who knows. They've had success with these things before so my guess is they view it as a no downside proposition with possible upside. In this case, I agree with DFW and a few others. It would make a mockery of the rules.

The only reason this is a possibility is the complete unpredictable way in which the NCAA handles these things.

The NCAA makes a mockery of their own rules all the time. It's sort of what they do.

[professorhoya]

Apr 18, 2016 19:59:40 GMT -5 dreamhoya said:

Apr 18, 2016 19:12:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

It's about zero. I think Ben Standig has been reading too much HoyaTalk.

"For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:
The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided."

Hayes played in nine of 32 games as a freshman (28%) including four in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 16 of 33 games as a sophomore (48%) including ten in Big East play. No injury was reported.

Hayes played in 17 of 33 games as a junior (51%) including 12 in Big East play. No injury was reported.

This does not qualify as a medical redshirt.

...well why are they even applying?

"Medical Hardship Requirements

To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.
The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.
The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.
The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater."

www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm

This article from 2012 says it is 30% not 20%

Maybe the rule has changed but 2012 was Bradley's freshman seasons so maybe they are trying to get him grandfathered in under the 2012 30% rule.

*the senior year of high school thing is also interesting although I don't think it applies to Hayes

[DFW HOYA]

Here is the exact wording from the 2016 NCAA Manual. Since we're citing various web sites, it might help to go to the source.

12.8.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference
or the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for reasons of “hardship.” Hardship is defined as
an incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised:
1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 11/1/01, 4/3/02, 8/8/02, 3/10/04,
5/11/05, 8/4/05, 4/26/07, 9/18/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 4/24/08, 7/31/14)

(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any twoyear
or four-year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete’s senior year
in high school;

(b) The injury or illness occurs prior to the first competition of the second half of the playing season that concludes
with the NCAA championship in that sport (see Bylaw 12.8.4.3.4) and results in incapacity to compete
for the remainder of that playing season;

(c) In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three
contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is
greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only
scheduled or completed competition against outside participants during the playing season that concludes
with the NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season
in that sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), shall be countable under this limitation in calculating both the
number of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of
scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. Dates of competition
that are exempted (e.g., alumni contests, foreign team in the United States) from the maximum permissible
number of contests or dates of competition shall count toward the number of contests or dates in which the
student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition
in the season, except for scrimmages and exhibition contests that are specifically identified as such in the
sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season regulations. Scrimmages and exhibition contests that are not
exempted from the maximum permissible number of contests or dates of competition may be excluded from
the calculation only if they are identified as such in the sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season regulations;
and

(d) In individual sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than
three dates of competition or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the maximum permissible number
of dates of competition as set forth in Bylaw 17 plus one date for a conference championship (e.g., gymnastics:
13+1=14, wrestling: 16+1=17), regardless of whether the team participates in the conference championship,
provided the institution is a member of a conference and the conference holds a championship event
in the applicable sport. Dates of competition that are exempted per Bylaw 17 (e.g., alumni contests, foreign
team in the United States) from the maximum permissible number of dates of competition do not count
toward the number of dates in which the student-athlete has participated.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Apr 18, 2016 23:12:22 GMT -5 SaxaCD said:

Apr 18, 2016 21:30:17 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Hayes may want it. JT3 may want it, who knows. They've had success with these things before so my guess is they view it as a no downside proposition with possible upside. In this case, I agree with DFW and a few others. It would make a mockery of the rules.

The only reason this is a possibility is the complete unpredictable way in which the NCAA handles these things.

The NCAA makes a mockery of their own rules all the time. It's sort of what they do.

Very true. I still think the one game suspension for Moses his senior year was absolutely absurd and demonstrates how ridiculous the NCAA can be. It's also absurd that someone like Moses got suspended 10 games because his guardian paid a plane ticket meanwhile Boeheim gets 9 games despite the ridiculous stuff that happened there.

In any case, it would be great if we could bring in Taurean.