Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 13, 2005 10:15:44 GMT -5
Oh and all our 2005 commits fell right off the map in the latest rankings...not even a peep.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on May 13, 2005 10:15:55 GMT -5
Classic, as his lowest pre-commitment ranking was in the mid-40's.
The more things change...
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on May 13, 2005 10:58:51 GMT -5
Hey, at least he's still #32 on Rivals!
I'm excited no matter what they do with the rankings now, this guy is skilled and JT III knows it.
He was just selected as one of 31 players for the US Olympic Youth Festival, which is an honor and says something about his game.
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YB
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Post by YB on May 13, 2005 11:05:25 GMT -5
Remember, no one thought much of Joe Smith either before he got to college.
It all depends on hard work and performance.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on May 13, 2005 11:10:17 GMT -5
Remember, no one thought much of Joe Smith either before he got to college. It all depends on hard work and performance. Yeah,nobody saw Joe Smith coming. Only Othella Harrington saw him coming, but Othella was not quick enough to keep up with him, along with the rest of the country.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on May 13, 2005 11:14:07 GMT -5
Undiscovered gems are one thing -- discovered, highly ranked gems that then plummet as soon as they commit to GU are a completely different issue. They might want to revise them upwards again quietly in retrospect, once those guys start kicking some Big East butt!
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on May 13, 2005 11:19:30 GMT -5
Yeah, that's why I don't bother with those rankings lists and some of those gurus and junk.
The REAL reward comes when these guys start putting together big performances at the MCI Center and across the Big East. Hopefully by that point, the only rankings we care about are where the Hoyas are in the AP and the ESPN Top 25.
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on May 13, 2005 13:33:40 GMT -5
Wonder how far Macklin (or to a lesser extent, Summers and Johnson) fall if/when any of them commit. Watching a Top 10 guy drop precipitously after a verbal would be hysterical.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 13, 2005 14:43:00 GMT -5
Can someone enlighten me as to why there's a post commitment drop in the rankings for our recruits?
Sounds like a fun story.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 13, 2005 14:54:17 GMT -5
Scout.com did a final update of the 2005 class and none of the Hoyas' recruits are in the top 100. No Sapp. No Thornton. No Spann.
WE find it humorous and typical because it happens all the time. Someone commits to GU and the player drops like a stone. Of course there is zero evidence that there is a conspiracy going on and our players are being undervalued on purpose. In fact there were times in which those drops were justified and perhaps we're being a little sensitive. Still its amazing how this seems to happen a lot. What makes it worse is that some of these talent gurus have admitted that they will overhype a little players going to UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc because they get so much of their business from fans of those programs so giving those recruits a high ranking is good for their financial health. Look, when a top twenty UNC recruit has a disappointing season he tends to stay in the top 20. When a recruit for the Hoyas who was ranked like #75 has an expected good year or better he is likley to drop out of the top 100.
When I came across the Scout update yesterday I laughed. When I came across the update for 2006 and saw that Rivers was only #92 I had to shake my head in disgust. No one else has him below #45 and yet Scout has him at #92 and, what a coincidence, this was after he committed to GU. If he had chosen Kansas or Wake I tend to doubt he would have been that low IMO.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on May 13, 2005 14:57:31 GMT -5
Can someone enlighten me as to why there's a post commitment drop in the rankings for our recruits? Sounds like a fun story. Its because of how we are viewed in the national landscape, i.e., the media. IF these same players committed to UCONN, UNC, or Duke their rankings would go up. IF these same players committed to Maryland, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Villanova, or Notre Dame, their rankings would stay the same. But, because our success or lack thereof these past several years, the rankings are going go down in the so-called "experts" eyes. Go figure.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 13, 2005 15:05:55 GMT -5
Actually, there is evidence for some sort of drop.
Someone mentioned on another thread that Rob Matera commented that recruiting gurus don't like to look stupid, so a player that commits to an offense-friendly system tends to get a boost and vice versa. No one wants to have a player come to a school, score 4 ppg and have the guru look dumb.
Other people -- Bob Gibbons among them, I think, have admitted to changing rankings to please AAU coaches and to please college coaches. An angry or cajoling word from Durham moves up Jamal Boykin at someone else's expense.
In addition, with the vast majority of money no longer coming from the college coaches but now coming from rabid fans, I think many recruiting rankings cater to their audience. It is not so hard to think that a Kentucky fan would pick Rivals over Scout simply because Rivals consistently ranks Kentucky recruits higher.
Jeff Green is a good example of this. Post-commitment, I emailed a recruiting guru asking what he thought of Jeff. He said that he though Jeff was a real gem, but that they wouldn't change the rankings because they didn't like to change the summer rankings much -- that changing post commitment was bad because they wanted to evaluate themselves against summer.
This made little sense to me, but what do I care if Jeff is listed Top 100 or not? But when the "final" rankings came out, there was quite a bit of movement, new players, etc., and Jeff was still nowhere to be seen. I emailed back and the basic response was this: Not enough people bitched that Jeff wasn't ranked high enough to care.
So while there doesn't seem to be a straight anti-Gtown conspiracy, there are heavy biases in the rankings that just happen to work against us:
1) In the old days and today, we don't run a fast paced offense. We're no longer a high exposure program and the gurus know even a Jeff Green won't get his deserved hype.
2) Our program probably doesn't care much for rankings or sucking up to the recruiters. We probably are difficult to deal with.
3) We don't have a rabid, huge and irrational fan base.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 13, 2005 15:46:53 GMT -5
It happens every year...
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on May 13, 2005 17:22:50 GMT -5
I don't know if it works this way with hoops recruits, but in football recruiting, often guys who commit early are dropped in the rankings so that these "gurus" with subscriptions to sell are able to keep "dishing" about what the "top" recruits are thinking. It doesn't sell subscriptions if all the exciting recruits have committed already.
"Should" I keep "using" "quotation" marks?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 13, 2005 18:58:42 GMT -5
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on May 13, 2005 19:12:37 GMT -5
Also, most evaluation takes place during the AAU season. If you sign early, players often don't play a lot of AAU summer ball, which means they tend to drop. Jeff and Roy didn't really play much AAU ball, so their exposure was really limited.
The enterprise of trying to rank thousands of high school players is pretty ridiculous, so they probably do an acceptably good job of it on the whole. Also, if a kid signs with Duke, it's not ridiculous to assume he can play, even if he was unimpressive earlier. I don't know if we can complain about our recruits not being ranked higher in the past since we've pretty much stank for a decade now - the "gurus" were right about some things.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 13, 2005 19:22:43 GMT -5
Yeah, our recruits experience a drop, but if you look at their production, they haven't been uniformly underrated over the last five to ten years.
For various reasons, I do not know if Courtland, Harvey, Wesley, and Perry were in the Top 100 in their class.
On the flip, Brandon, Jeff, and Mike were obviously underrated, and by quite a bit.
I think our incoming class is probably a bit underrated, but you never know.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 13, 2005 19:55:33 GMT -5
Per the RSCI Index (an average of the various recruiting services), here is the last seven years of recruits in the top 100. (Anthony Perry wasn't in this seven year count, but he was rated #5 nationally.)
Whether people agree with it or not, Perry is the only top 10 recruit Georgetown has signed in the last ten seasons.
1997-98 Kevin Braswell: 59 Willie Taylor: NR
1998-99 Courtland Freeman: 74 Wesley Wilson: 97 Demetrius Hunter: 98 Jason Burns: NR Victor Samnick: NR Raynardo Curry: NR
1999-00 Mike Sweetney: 34 Gerald Riley: 98 Omari Faulkner: NR Luke Martin: NR RaMell Ross: NR
2000-01 Harvey Thomas: 63 Tony Bethel: NR Drew Hall: NR Darrel Owens: NR
2001-02 Brandon Bowman: NR Ashanti Cook: NR
2002-03 Darian Townes: 74 Matt Causey: 86 (FWIW, Patrick Ewing, Jr. was 96) Sead Dizdarevic: NR Ray Reed: NR
2003-04
Cornelio Guibunda: NR Jeff Green: NR Roy Hibbert: NR Jonathan Wallace: NR Tyler Crawford: NR
2004-05 (only updated through mid-season)
Josh Thornton: NR Octavius Spann: NR Marc Egerson: NR Jessie Sapp: NR
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 13, 2005 20:02:28 GMT -5
Hold on. Hibbert may have fallen (even though he had a very good junior season and a great senior season), but I don't recall him falling completely out of most Top 100 lists. Maybe my memory is just fuzzy.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 13, 2005 20:04:30 GMT -5
Hold on. Hibbert may have fallen (even though he had a very good junior season and a great senior season), but I don't recall him falling completely out of most Top 100 lists. Maybe my memory is just fuzzy. Here's the 2004 list. home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2004.htm
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