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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 27, 2016 18:08:14 GMT -5
We can say whatever we want about having a pure point guard and blame individual players for all of our woes but at the end of the day our offensive sets are straight up BAD. On defense I legitimately do believe that we are just a young team and JT3 has developed them over the course of the year to improve their D overall. But on offense? Holy cow it is a disaster. There is nothing about it that catches our opponents off guard. People know what to expect, and each game is usually determined by how well prepared the other team is and not the effort we give. Our players (particularly LJ, Ike, and Tre) are fast guys that need high-energy offenses to thrive. When we spend literally thirty seconds making awful passes and getting eaten up by defenses, we're wasting their potential.
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Post by wisconsinhoya on Feb 27, 2016 18:24:52 GMT -5
What did this team do over the last seven days of practice? Anything? What has this team been doing all year? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this board please tell me one area we have improved in since the loss to Radford? 1. Can we defend without using our hands and fouling non stop? 2. Can we close out on open shooters with giving up 3 free throws or even a 4 point play 3. Can we EVER understand the value of not turning the ball over? 4. Can we do anything on offense beside a high screen pick and roll 5. Do we ever score after a time out? I could go on and on and on. Are these kids as talented as all of their individual press clippings coming out of high school? That is a story for another day. But to see absolutely no improvement from this team over the past 4 months is disgusting.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 27, 2016 18:42:19 GMT -5
What did this team do over the last seven days of practice? Anything? What has this team been doing all year? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this board please tell me one area we have improved in since the loss to Radford? 1. Can we defend without using our hands and fouling non stop? 2. Can we close out on open shooters with giving up 3 free throws or even a 4 point play 3. Can we EVER understand the value of not turning the ball over? 4. Can we do anything on offense beside a high screen pick and roll 5. Do we ever score after a time out? I could go on and on and on. Are these kids as talented as all of their individual press clippings coming out of high school? That is a story for another day. But to see absolutely no improvement from this team over the past 4 months is disgusting. i think that's unfair. We did improve in several areas. We just played a different style when we were more competitive early on so it was kind of a mirage and our biggest problem has clearly been a lack of competitiveness. Do you really think we lose that Redford game in the same manner today? I don't, but of course that's not saying much cause we should never lose to them. Either way, just quickly off the top of my head DSR got better as he year went on, LJ got a lot better in several areas, and our reserves got a lot of experience and saw improvement. It's a marathon not a sprint, not the greatest year but still a lot of positives to build on. We have the talent, we just need the know-how.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,485
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 27, 2016 19:08:22 GMT -5
If we recall a piece of literature to define this season, I would guess Paradise Lost.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Feb 27, 2016 19:13:51 GMT -5
What has this team been doing all year? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this board please tell me one area we have improved in since the loss to Radford? 1. Can we defend without using our hands and fouling non stop? 2. Can we close out on open shooters with giving up 3 free throws or even a 4 point play 3. Can we EVER understand the value of not turning the ball over? 4. Can we do anything on offense beside a high screen pick and roll 5. Do we ever score after a time out? I could go on and on and on. Are these kids as talented as all of their individual press clippings coming out of high school? That is a story for another day. But to see absolutely no improvement from this team over the past 4 months is disgusting. i think that's unfair. We did improve in several areas. We just played a different style when we were more competitive early on so it was kind of a mirage and our biggest problem has clearly been a lack of competitiveness. Do you really think we lose that Redford game in the same manner today? I don't, but of course that's not saying much cause we should never lose to them. Either way, just quickly off the top of my head DSR got better as he year went on, LJ got a lot better in several areas, and our reserves got a lot of experience and saw improvement. It's a marathon not a sprint, not the greatest year but still a lot of positives to build on. We have the talent, we just need the know-how. Rock..I hope you are making millions as a "spin doctor" for politicians caught in scandals..if not , you are wasting your talents!
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Feb 27, 2016 19:17:26 GMT -5
You all have to accept that JT III's system hindered player development. Our players don't improve dribbling , running fast breaks and penetrating into the paint. Today was an example, every Butler player could dribble and penetrate into the paint without any difficulties. I can not believe how all our players regress in their basketball skills during this system. Most of these players were top 100 recruits. Yes, our system does not require development of those fundamentals.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 27, 2016 19:28:21 GMT -5
You all have to accept that JT III's system hindered player development. Our players don't improve dribbling , running fast breaks and penetrating into the paint. Today was an example, every Butler player could dribble and penetrate into the paint without any difficulties. I can not believe how all our players regress in their basketball skills during this system. Most of these players were top 100 recruits. Right, except when we actually ran the system, players like Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert hugely improved. And, players like Greg Monroe, Hollis Thompson, and others also succeeded even if they didn't make the NBA (like Freeman and Wright). And, Otto Porter somehow managed to get drafted third, even though he did not enter his freshman season with that even on the radar. People keep complaining about the "system" yet I think people are often complaining because our players aren't executing it well. Today, we shot over 50% and threes over 40%. We did not lose today's game because of offense. We lost it because we couldn't hold onto the ball and because we foul constantly.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Feb 27, 2016 19:54:19 GMT -5
Honestly...I think the guys gave it all they had today...especially when it appeared to be a blowout. I do not think they had much more in the tank to give. Not defending this putrid season in any way, just kudos for the guys on the court who made it a game in those final minutes. What? I just got back from the game and can tell you these guys should be ashamed of themselves. Once again we were out hustled and looked awful. Jesse Govan looked like he had either partied all night or taken some ludes before the game. The old saying is true: offense can come and go but defense should be there every game. 46 points in the first half for Butler. Dunham wide open the first 10 minutes of the game. 23 freaking turnovers!!! I'm sorry but "making it a game" is just a nice way of saying we're lazy but when we want to can play really well.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 27, 2016 20:00:00 GMT -5
Our basketball IQ is incredibly low. Like so low you couldn't legally put this team out of its misery. Given how vanilla our offensive sets are, and how terrible, or non existent, our in game adjustments are, I have to believe that's a further indictment of JTIII's flaws.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Feb 27, 2016 20:14:22 GMT -5
Our basketball IQ is incredibly low. Like so low you couldn't legally put this team out of its misery. Given how vanilla our offensive sets are, and how terrible, or non existent, our in game adjustments are, I have to believe that's a further indictment of JTIII's flaws. I think you missed the memo and the kool-aid, JTIII makes good game adjustments the players just need to execute it.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Feb 27, 2016 20:41:02 GMT -5
Honestly...I think the guys gave it all they had today...especially when it appeared to be a blowout. I do not think they had much more in the tank to give. Not defending this putrid season in any way, just kudos for the guys on the court who made it a game in those final minutes. What? I just got back from the game and can tell you these guys should be ashamed of themselves. Once again we were out hustled and looked awful. Jesse Govan looked like he had either partied all night or taken some ludes before the game. The old saying is true: offense can come and go but defense should be there every game. 46 points in the first half for Butler. Dunham wide open the first 10 minutes of the game. 23 freaking turnovers!!! I'm sorry but "making it a game" is just a nice way of saying we're lazy but when we want to can play really well. The defense is there every game it's just very bad.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Feb 27, 2016 20:52:57 GMT -5
What did this team do over the last seven days of practice? Anything? What has this team been doing all year? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this board please tell me one area we have improved in since the loss to Radford? 1. Can we defend without using our hands and fouling non stop? 2. Can we close out on open shooters with giving up 3 free throws or even a 4 point play 3. Can we EVER understand the value of not turning the ball over? 4. Can we do anything on offense beside a high screen pick and roll 5. Do we ever score after a time out? I could go on and on and on. Are these kids as talented as all of their individual press clippings coming out of high school? That is a story for another day. But to see absolutely no improvement from this team over the past 4 months is disgusting. Agree with 1 thru 3.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 27, 2016 21:01:14 GMT -5
You all have to accept that JT III's system hindered player development. Our players don't improve dribbling , running fast breaks and penetrating into the paint. Today was an example, every Butler player could dribble and penetrate into the paint without any difficulties. I can not believe how all our players regress in their basketball skills during this system. Most of these players were top 100 recruits. Right, except when we actually ran the system, players like Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert hugely improved. And, players like Greg Monroe, Hollis Thompson, and others also succeeded even if they didn't make the NBA (like Freeman and Wright). And, Otto Porter somehow managed to get drafted third, even though he did not enter his freshman season with that even on the radar. People keep complaining about the "system" yet I think people are often complaining because our players aren't executing it well. Today, we shot over 50% and threes over 40%. We did not lose today's game because of offense. We lost it because we couldn't hold onto the ball and because we foul constantly. The majority of the TO's came while the players were trying to run the offense though.. You're right there's nothing wrong with the system itself but it doesn't fit these players..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 21:04:22 GMT -5
Right, except when we actually ran the system, players like Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert hugely improved. And, players like Greg Monroe, Hollis Thompson, and others also succeeded even if they didn't make the NBA (like Freeman and Wright). And, Otto Porter somehow managed to get drafted third, even though he did not enter his freshman season with that even on the radar. People keep complaining about the "system" yet I think people are often complaining because our players aren't executing it well. Today, we shot over 50% and threes over 40%. We did not lose today's game because of offense. We lost it because we couldn't hold onto the ball and because we foul constantly. The majority of the TO's came while the players were trying to run the offense though.. You're right there's nothing wrong with the system itself but it doesn't fit these players.. What system do you think would?
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Post by grandmahoya on Feb 27, 2016 21:15:02 GMT -5
What? I just got back from the game and can tell you these guys should be ashamed of themselves. Once again we were out hustled and looked awful. Jesse Govan looked like he had either partied all night or taken some ludes before the game. The old saying is true: offense can come and go but defense should be there every game. 46 points in the first half for Butler. Dunham wide open the first 10 minutes of the game. 23 freaking turnovers!!! I'm sorry but "making it a game" is just a nice way of saying we're lazy but when we want to can play really well. The defense is there every game it's just very bad. When Roosevelt Jones dribbled the ball coast to coast and scored, and not one of our players even attempted to stop him, that defined for me how poor our defense really is. We have no finesse on defense. We either do nothing or we commit silly fouls. I have absolutely no explanation for the 23 turnovers. In the second half when they made the run and played instinctively, they didn't turn the ball over as much. When they don't think as much and play with abandon, it frees them up and they seem to play so much better. These kids are talented, so what are they really afraid of when they play? For whatever is left of the season, the players should just let their instincts take over and not overthink their role. Maybe this will carry over to next year.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 27, 2016 21:27:04 GMT -5
The majority of the TO's came while the players were trying to run the offense though.. You're right there's nothing wrong with the system itself but it doesn't fit these players.. What system do you think would? My 1st thought would be something more screen based honestly, something that gives the players have easier choices.. I'd also have them push the pace at every opportunity.. JT3 had an interview before the SH game where he said the team wanted to play faster, in order to do that the team had to get stops which is true no doubt.. To me the better answer is we're going to push tempo after stops, makes, to's, out of time out's ect..
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Post by michaeldm9 on Feb 27, 2016 22:03:38 GMT -5
You all have to accept that JT III's system hindered player development. Our players don't improve dribbling , running fast breaks and penetrating into the paint. Today was an example, every Butler player could dribble and penetrate into the paint without any difficulties. I can not believe how all our players regress in their basketball skills during this system. Most of these players were top 100 recruits. Yea that's it JTII. His Jedi mind trick. The fouls this team commits are stupid for grade school. I am hard on JTII, but this year I think its players not wanting to play his style and play like this Peach Jam AAU circuit. Govan you are 6'10". Keep your arms straight up. That's taught in grade school. Peak quit reaching, don't foul a 3Ptr shooter, that's taught in grade school. Derrickson quit pushing, again taught in grade school.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Feb 27, 2016 22:04:32 GMT -5
Our guys look constantly on offense like a baseball player who can't hit the fastball and loads up early. They catch looking for the next pass. They dribble either straight line to the hoop or with no intention to score at all. There's no read and react. It's just react.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 27, 2016 22:16:38 GMT -5
My only issue with that play is why have Ike do the inbound pass then why let Tre take the ball up the court for the last shot? Definetly would have preferred to have put the ball in Ike's hand to decide the game over Tre's Because Ike cant dribble.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 27, 2016 22:20:24 GMT -5
My only issue with that play is why have Ike do the inbound pass then why let Tre take the ball up the court for the last shot? Definetly would have preferred to have put the ball in Ike's hand to decide the game over Tre's Because Ike cant dribble. No, there were 2 seconds left on the clock. Tre wasted his dribbles anyway.
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