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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 13, 2016 21:35:50 GMT -5
Today's game is why this Coach drives me crazy this season. The team was absolutely and totally unprepared to start the game, and he did absolutely nothing in the first half to change that or fire them up. Whatever his did or said at half time worked 1000%. After the first minute in which DSR missed a wide open three, Govan committed a stupid third foul and DSR committed a foul with one second left on the shot clock, the team played with intensity and intelligence. And then in the last 30 seconds: - we looked completely lost out of a timeout, which caused us to call our last timeout in the same possession. - we looked lost after the second timeout, Copeland fired up a bad three but was bailed out by a foul. - we didn't even cover Bentil, their best FT shooter, on the throw-in. - we had DSR lackadaisically dribble the ball to go one-on-one without any play, pass or chance for a rebound I put the first half and the end on the coach, at least in large part. Because the backdoor cuts can chew up teams playing man-to-man defense against the Hoyas and because Gtown has played in a conference that has always relied on zone defenses moreso than conferences like the ACC, Pac 10 and SEC (did I mention that the zone is the preferred choice of our arch rival?) III's Hoyas has arguably faced as many zone defenses as any other team during his Gtown tenure. And yet I swear in 90% of the times in which Georgetown does face such a defense, III's players seem unprepared for it, as if they are seeing it for the first time. I could be terribly wrong about this but this is how it seems. Too many games in which during offensive possessions three Hoyas beyond the three-point line just pass the ball around each other for 35 or more seconds with no real strategy to get a good/clean look. Eventually, often during a second half, the players seem to finally figure it out, often in time to get the win. Still you watch with frustration as they repeat the same stifling mistakes and display the same awful spacing and make the same slow, unsure passes as they have done before numerous times. I do, respectfully, think you're wrong. We look very good quite often against the Cuse zone for example. I think part of the issue is that it's always easier to attack a zone after you've seen the opposition play it for a number of possessions. Obviously the key is always getting it to the middle, but each team does slightly different things to take it and other things away. The angles are a bit different, etc. So I think most teams are better offensively as the game progresses, unless you're simply having a good night from deep. The thing that always has set Cuse apart is there ability to make defensive adjustments within their zone within a game. That, I think, is rare. (It's always a good idea to go zone with not much time on the shot clock, which is what Provy did at the end. The offense doesn't have the necessary time to probe and reverse.)
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 13, 2016 21:38:30 GMT -5
Man, the team really missed Hayes. Not having that "release" pass and big option down low killed the offense in the first half. Get well soon Big Fella!!! All season long the Hoyas had that advantage with Hayes against virtually every team. And they still racked up the losses. True enough, MCI. I was simply pointing out that the absence of those plays- maligned by so many on this board- seemed to be a huge problem in the first half. Certainly this team's problems are much more complicated than one player.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 13, 2016 22:14:28 GMT -5
All season long the Hoyas had that advantage with Hayes against virtually every team. And they still racked up the losses. True enough, MCI. I was simply pointing out that the absence of those plays- maligned by so many on this board- seemed to be a huge problem in the first half. Certainly this team's problems are much more complicated than one player. Hayes wouldn't have been at the FT line/top of circle during that 1st half run by Providence because they were playing a zone on defense.. Also if you re-watch the game you'll see that before they went zone G'town was getting the ball to Govan & Mourning up top just like they always do..
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 13, 2016 22:29:38 GMT -5
Yes, we absolutely missed Hayes. Again, too much youth and inexperience. It was a valiant effort in the second half, but how do you come back from such a huge deficit? Also, again, I hope this club stays together.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 13, 2016 22:47:48 GMT -5
We would have to win out plus a run to the BE finals to get in the NCAAs at this point I think. Crazy me, I still think its possible that we win the BE tourney but we won't win at Nova........... Are u serious. This team is dead. We came out of the gate today with no fire or urgency. Our so called best player had what 3 points 4 fouls? Did you know our best and most improved player is out for a month with a broken bone? What has shown you we are capable of making a Herculean run which is exactly what we would need. Done. Did your cable go out in the second half?
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 13, 2016 23:03:58 GMT -5
Are u serious. This team is dead. We came out of the gate today with no fire or urgency. Our so called best player had what 3 points 4 fouls? Did you know our best and most improved player is out for a month with a broken bone? What has shown you we are capable of making a Herculean run which is exactly what we would need. Done. Did your cable go out in the second half? I like your optimism but really? They sh.. the bed in the first half but you'll reward a comeback that never really happened. Let's try to play 40 minutes when we have our backs against the wall. That was a pathetic showing and shouldn't be remembered for a comeback that didn't happen but rather a team that came out unprepared and not ready to play.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 13, 2016 23:42:24 GMT -5
All season long the Hoyas had that advantage with Hayes against virtually every team. And they still racked up the losses. True enough, MCI. I was simply pointing out that the absence of those plays- maligned by so many on this board- seemed to be a huge problem in the first half. Certainly this team's problems are much more complicated than one player. I get you. And I wasn't trying to dismiss your point. I was simply venting my frustration that even with such an advantage (a 7 footer with touch who can get his own shot in the post), the team wasn't able to exploit this more to its benefit.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 14, 2016 3:46:06 GMT -5
We were awful in the first half. Just awful. No argument from me. But the other stuff just isn't true. They trapped everything on the first part of the possession, which could not have been expected and then came out in zone in the second (with limited time left). Criticize not going over three scenarios i guess but when you see the zone you just run the zone offense. After Ike shot, one guy forgot to guard his man. How is that the coach's fault? And on the last play, it worked! We got the pop for a good three point shooter (Marcus). I really think it is hard to see how well some of our sets work because we simply do not make the pass. DSR's last shot is an easy example, but all season Hayes has held the ball on decent back-cuts and there has been repeated times when the play is there to be made, but the guys either do not see it or are so scared to commit a turnover that they pass up the opportunity. It is so easy to fault the coach, but this season, I really see the execution breaking down a lot more than in the past. Plays are there and they are not being made. I agree completely. Can't count how many times I've screamed at the screen this season because a passer refused to pull the trigger on a pass that wasn't "threading the needle", it just required a quick reaction to get the ball to an open teammate going toward the basket. I don't know if we need "guards" or "big men" -- what i KNOW we need are good and willing passers, and frankly, I don't care how tall or short they are at this point.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Feb 14, 2016 8:47:49 GMT -5
Are u serious. This team is dead. We came out of the gate today with no fire or urgency. Our so called best player had what 3 points 4 fouls? Did you know our best and most improved player is out for a month with a broken bone? What has shown you we are capable of making a Herculean run which is exactly what we would need. Done. Did your cable go out in the second half? Big deal. We need wins now, especially against top 25 teams. It's one thing if we're 16-4 and in the top 25 and a tourney lock, but we're not! We are incapable of playing a solid 40 minutes unless we're paying against that rec team called St. John's. Come on guy. We need wins not moral victories. We need DSR to actually play like he's capable of especially now! Done.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 14, 2016 10:07:58 GMT -5
Some time to digest overnight and a few thoughts:
I was not surprised it took the Hoyas some time to adjust given the loss of Hayes. It's one thing to figure out how you'll adjust to losing your starting center, quite another to do it on the road against a very good team.
Govan's first foul looked to me to actually be on Campbell who swiped the ball and got the arm. Of course, I was in position to make that call and the ref who called it was screened from seeing the play on the opposite side.
Old problems arose in the first quickly, with Cameron and others over helping on the wings and not staying out on hot 3 point shooters and an apparent unawareness that Bullock was hitting every 3 he took.
PC did a great job the whole game of denying DSR open looks by keeping 2 defenders on him most of the game. The Hoyas adjusted by moving him off the ball midway through the half and it worked.
I too would have liked to see DSR pass on the last play but he took the screen to the short corner and it was clear there was no way he was going to get his shot off cleanly against a taller defender.
Mourning is going to be great with another offseason in the weight room.
Derrickson is also going to be great, but currently lacks the lateral foot speed to defend the wing against quicker players.
Campbell played Dunn well defensively despite the height disadvantage but it's hard to compete when there's going to be a whistle on every drive at about the time Dunn took his 4th step without dribbling.
Defense lost the game yet again. Poor first half perimeter defense and bad transition defense gave up 49 points.
The Peak, Copeland, Derrickson, DSR, Mourning/Govan lineup that got the team back in the game represents their best lineup going forward.
There's still time to make some hay this season.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 14, 2016 10:57:13 GMT -5
The defense in the first half was undoubtedly pathetic. But as far as I'm concerned that doesn't excuse the stall in the offense that occurred in the first half. And these stalls, these droughts keep happening. This year's team was never going to be a great defensive unit. However even without an elite pass-first point guard it had enough guys with scoring ability to be a great offensive team, one that could at least keep the team in a game even when the defense faltered. Unfortunately throughout most of the season the team has been unable to keep the pressure on the other team from an offensive standpoint for an entire forty minutes or even just 35 minutes.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 14, 2016 12:06:29 GMT -5
I really think it is hard to see how well some of our sets work because we simply do not make the pass. DSR's last shot is an easy example, but all season Hayes has held the ball on decent back-cuts and there has been repeated times when the play is there to be made, but the guys either do not see it or are so scared to commit a turnover that they pass up the opportunity. It is so easy to fault the coach, but this season, I really see the execution breaking down a lot more than in the past. Plays are there and they are not being made. I agree completely. Can't count how many times I've screamed at the screen this season because a passer refused to pull the trigger on a pass that wasn't "threading the needle", it just required a quick reaction to get the ball to an open teammate going toward the basket. I don't know if we need "guards" or "big men" -- what i KNOW we need are good and willing passers, and frankly, I don't care how tall or short they are at this point. Good topic for discussion for the off-season: what is JT3 looking for in a recruit in all positions. To me, other than the studs you take no matter what they do, he has been looking for tall, athletic combo guards for far too long and what we get is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole or taking what is left. We need guards that can penetrate, dish and shoot, and who are not allergic to defense as the top priorities, then come athletic and height. What we cannot have in our style of play is an athletic, tall guard who is average in passing and shooting, is allergic to penetrating and is not an instinctual defender. The first four characteristics are requirements, the other are cherries on top. Also, we need alpha dawgs. Obviously, having all 7 will make you a five-star recruit and we know how many we get right now. So, it's a matter of setting the required priorities in order.
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Post by goyahoya69 on Feb 14, 2016 12:14:30 GMT -5
We would have to win out plus a run to the BE finals to get in the NCAAs at this point I think. Crazy me, I still think its possible that we win the BE tourney but we won't win at Nova........... Are u serious. This team is dead. We came out of the gate today with no fire or urgency. Our so called best player had what 3 points 4 fouls? Did you know our best and most improved player is out for a month with a broken bone? What has shown you we are capable of making a Herculean run which is exactly what we would need. Done. LOL bj our best player? you are silly.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 14, 2016 12:23:36 GMT -5
One other thought: I observed during the game that a couple years ago the game at PC was (if memory serves) the first game after Joshua Smith was declared academically ineligible. That one featured a complete collapse in the second half. Quite different games overall, which is a good sign. scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400504521
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Feb 14, 2016 14:28:14 GMT -5
Are u serious. This team is dead. We came out of the gate today with no fire or urgency. Our so called best player had what 3 points 4 fouls? Did you know our best and most improved player is out for a month with a broken bone? What has shown you we are capable of making a Herculean run which is exactly what we would need. Done. LOL bj our best player? you are silly. I was referring to DSR who has not stepped it up this year. He's been a huge disappointment. I'm telling u there's something wrong here. Secondly I was referring to Hayes who has been our second best player and clearly our most improved player as everyone else has gotten worse or stayed the same. This year has been dreadful.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Feb 14, 2016 14:39:59 GMT -5
There's still time to make some hay this season. [/quote]
I am trying to understand your statement.
I guess if you think to yourself " wow I thought there was so much talent here at Kenner" then yeah I understand where your coming from.
1. Our leader is having an average year and clearly not the dynamic difference maker we need him to be.
2. Our most improved player is out.
3. Copeland, derrickson, Campbell are underperforming.
4. We have only put 2-3 consistent efforts together all year. Yes Xavier was amazing and Syracuse and Wisconsin were solid but those games are long gone.
What makes u think from what your eyes see in the past 3 weeks that we can win 6-7 games and / or win the BET? How can we beat a Xavier, providence and nova back to back to back?
Good lord it's time to be realistic. We may not make the NIT.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 14, 2016 14:41:36 GMT -5
LOL bj our best player? you are silly. I was referring to DSR who has not stepped it up this year. He's been a huge disappointment. I'm telling u there's something wrong here. Secondly I was referring to Hayes who has been our second best player and clearly our most improved player as everyone else has gotten worse or stayed the same. This year has been dreadful. And his 18.8 points and 4.5 assists (good for fifth in the BE) before providence say otherwise....
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 14, 2016 14:56:52 GMT -5
I was referring to DSR who has not stepped it up this year. He's been a huge disappointment. I'm telling u there's something wrong here. Secondly I was referring to Hayes who has been our second best player and clearly our most improved player as everyone else has gotten worse or stayed the same. This year has been dreadful. And his 18.8 points and 4.5 assists (good for fifth in the BE) before providence say otherwise.... Out of curiosity, why did you choose to use his conference stats instead of his overall numbers? There's really not much difference in the two..
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 14, 2016 15:01:25 GMT -5
I am trying to understand your statement. I guess if you think to yourself " wow I thought there was so much talent here at Kenner" then yeah I understand where your coming from. 1. Our leader is having an average year and clearly not the dynamic difference maker we need him to be. 2. Our most improved player is out. 3. Copeland, derrickson, Campbell are underperforming. 4. We have only put 2-3 consistent efforts together all year. Yes Xavier was amazing and Syracuse and Wisconsin were solid but those games are long gone. What makes u think from what your eyes see in the past 3 weeks that we can win 6-7 games and / or win the BET? How can we beat a Xavier, providence and nova back to back to back? Good lord it's time to be realistic. We may not make the NIT. It's optimistic, but a statement of fact. I choose not to wallow in negative misery like you, that's all. You're acting like I was making some kind of flat out lock prediction, which I was not.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 14, 2016 15:05:40 GMT -5
And his 18.8 points and 4.5 assists (good for fifth in the BE) before providence say otherwise.... Out of curiosity, why did you choose to use his conference stats instead of his overall numbers? There's really not much difference in the two.. Just because it's a more current representation of the impact he's been making in games lately. He's had a history of starting off slow in the OCC, and that's not to excuse him but he's been a good leader during conference he just can't get off clean last-second attempts but if anyone expects him to somehow have improved his elevation on jumpers at this point or to defer in that situation I just think that's a little naive.
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