GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 2, 2015 22:09:34 GMT -5
One thing about our terrible play on the road against good teams is we didn't play any road games out of conference. So I'm holding out hope that it's been part of the learning process. Would really be nice to have a true road win versus a tournament team on the resume.
|
|
beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,473
|
Post by beenaround on Mar 2, 2015 22:42:36 GMT -5
It would be quite unusual for us to go an entire season without a good road win, wouldn't it? Butler is well coached and plays well together...we still have more talent and more athletes and lots of seniors who see their careers winding down. Will be disappointed if we do not get this one.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,766
|
Post by njhoya78 on Mar 2, 2015 22:56:53 GMT -5
Interesting note I saw online tonight; the Butler seniors will be honored tomorrow after the game has concluded, not before the opening tip. Not sure I've ever seen it done that way elsewhere.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 2, 2015 23:04:00 GMT -5
It would be quite unusual for us to go an entire season without a good road win, wouldn't it? Butler is well coached and plays well together...we still have more talent and more athletes and lots of seniors who see their careers winding down. Will be disappointed if we do not get this one. Last year is the only year without a quality road win. Even his other two NIT teams had road wins In 08-09 they won at #2 UConn and at #10 Nova. In 04-05 they won at #16 Pitt and at Nova, who went to the Sweet 16 that year. The UConn game was the 08-09 teams first road game that year, and the 04-05 team had only played at Davidson prior to beating Pitt.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 2, 2015 23:10:59 GMT -5
Interesting note I saw online tonight; the Butler seniors will be honored tomorrow after the game has concluded, not before the opening tip. Not sure I've ever seen it done that way elsewhere. A couple of teams around here do it, avoids delaying the start of the game. Some plans leave right at the end of the game; then again some show up late and miss pre-game festivities.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 3, 2015 10:03:03 GMT -5
It would be quite unusual for us to go an entire season without a good road win, wouldn't it? Butler is well coached and plays well together...we still have more talent and more athletes and lots of seniors who see their careers winding down. Will be disappointed if we do not get this one. Too bad athletes and talent do not win games - so tired of hearing about our "talent". Winning comes down to how well you play as a unit and how efficiently you produce points and get defensive stops. Up to this point, Butler does that better than the Hoyas despite this apparent gap in "talent". So I do not understand how I could be disappointed if we lose a game on Senior night to a ranked team on the road. I will be disappointed if we play like garbage as we did against SJU.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Mar 3, 2015 10:17:23 GMT -5
Do the little things. Play smart. Play as a team.
The rest will work itself out.
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 3, 2015 10:22:34 GMT -5
As I've said, I do not expect us to win tonight. If we can't win at Providence, Xavier, or St. John's, I'm not sure how we win at Hinkle.
That said, our road woes are starting to present pretty strong evidence that a Sweet Sixteen run is kind of out of the question. With just a couple of exceptions--three of them at home where we won't be playing in the postseason and just the Indiana overtime win at a neutral site--when we've played good teams, we've lost to them.
We are going to play good teams--again, not at Verizon Center--in the NCAA tournament.
If we can't win tonight or in a 4/5 game at MSG, I don't think we have much hope of winning any tournament games. That said, we may be like an 8th seed under those circumstances, so losing wouldn't really be an upset.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 3, 2015 10:34:45 GMT -5
You paint a dark picture Big Dog, but nothing I can disagree with at all.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Mar 3, 2015 10:52:01 GMT -5
As I've said, I do not expect us to win tonight. If we can't win at Providence, Xavier, or St. John's, I'm not sure how we win at Hinkle. That said, our road woes are starting to present pretty strong evidence that a Sweet Sixteen run is kind of out of the question. With just a couple of exceptions--three of them at home where we won't be playing in the postseason and just the Indiana overtime win at a neutral site--when we've played good teams, we've lost to them. We are going to play good teams--again, not at Verizon Center--in the NCAA tournament. If we can't win tonight or in a 4/5 game at MSG, I don't think we have much hope of winning any tournament games. That said, we may be like an 8th seed under those circumstances, so losing wouldn't really be an upset. As NC said, you are going to a dark place, boss. The other way to look at this is that we are about the 20-30th best team in the country, and we are somewhere between a 4-7 seed in the tourney. That means we have a decent shot to go on a run in the BET, we will be slight favorites in the first tourney game, and probably slight underdogs in the second game if we win. That doesnt say to me that a S16 run is out of the question. If it is, then it also out of the question for every 4-8 seed in the NCAA tournament. You know that's not true. One tourney win could change everything. Who knows if an overrated Maryland gets waxed by North Dakota Community State College in the first game in our pod.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,736
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 3, 2015 10:54:06 GMT -5
We shouldn't expect to win this. This team, while inconsistent in how they win and lose, has probably lost fewer games that we shouldn't have and won fewer games than we shouldn't have than any in recent Hoya history. And there's no way we're favored in Hinkle.
That said, it'd be nice to see Isaac or Josh show up, and it'd be nice to see Jabril have a strong game. At this point, the other variables seem minimally important or simply unlikely. We need a second banana to DSR and Trawick needs to be solid to even have a shot.
This team had tremendous upside in Josh and the freshmen. Neither have developed to hope. It's not a bad team -- it's definitely Top 30 in the country. But it could have been (and I suppose still could be) more. But it's not trending that way.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Mar 3, 2015 10:59:13 GMT -5
Im more optimistic than you guys. I think a big reason the upside hasn't been realized is because the BE is quite good and we play a true round robin. Did you guys think we had a shot at 14-4? I would have said no way.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 3, 2015 11:01:40 GMT -5
As I've said, I do not expect us to win tonight. If we can't win at Providence, Xavier, or St. John's, I'm not sure how we win at Hinkle. That said, our road woes are starting to present pretty strong evidence that a Sweet Sixteen run is kind of out of the question. With just a couple of exceptions--three of them at home where we won't be playing in the postseason and just the Indiana overtime win at a neutral site--when we've played good teams, we've lost to them. We are going to play good teams--again, not at Verizon Center--in the NCAA tournament. If we can't win tonight or in a 4/5 game at MSG, I don't think we have much hope of winning any tournament games. That said, we may be like an 8th seed under those circumstances, so losing wouldn't really be an upset. As NC said, you are going to a dark place, boss. The other way to look at this is that we are about the 20-30th best team in the country, and we are somewhere between a 4-7 seed in the tourney. That means we have a decent shot to go on a run in the BET, we will be slight favorites in the first tourney game, and probably slight underdogs in the second game if we win. That doesnt say to me that a S16 run is out of the question. If it is, then it also out of the question for every 4-8 seed in the NCAA tournament. You know that's not true. One tourney win could change everything. Who knows if an overrated Maryland gets waxed by North Dakota Community State College in the first game in our pod. I've got to agree with Big Dog--obviously, no team with only 4 wins in the top 50 of the RPI (none on the road) has a chance of making it to the Sweet Sixteen. espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/year/2014/teamId/41espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/year/2014/sort/RPI/teamId/2633
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 3, 2015 11:05:20 GMT -5
We shouldn't expect to win this. This team, while inconsistent in how they win and lose, has probably lost fewer games that we shouldn't have and won fewer games than we shouldn't have than any in recent Hoya history. And there's no way we're favored in Hinkle. That said, it'd be nice to see Isaac or Josh show up, and it'd be nice to see Jabril have a strong game. At this point, the other variables seem minimally important or simply unlikely. We need a second banana to DSR and Trawick needs to be solid to even have a shot. This team had tremendous upside in Josh and the freshmen. Neither have developed to hope. It's not a bad team -- it's definitely Top 30 in the country. But it could have been (and I suppose still could be) more. But it's not trending that way. I certainly agree that we've been very consistent and our consistency in not beating tournament-level teams (particularly away from home) is concerning. But I think we undersell how we've done within those losses. We lost essentially one or two possession games to Wiscy and Butler away from home and to Kansas at home. And the same with the two Provy games (one of which was away). I get the "horseshoes and hand grenades" aphorism with regard to close losses, and that's particularly true come NCAA time. I'm just saying that in terms of projecting our ability to win an NCAA game or two against a quality opponent, the way we've "consistently" lost is some indication that with the ball bouncing the right way just a bit more, we easily could get it done. By the same token, I, too, don't expect to win tonight. But I do expect it to be tight and with a bit of good fortune or unusually good play....
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,812
|
Post by hoyazeke on Mar 3, 2015 11:11:03 GMT -5
So funny that so many of us couch potatoes, noticed that Jones goes right EVERY time. In the YMCA, the only folks who notice those tendencies are old guys who need every advantage they can find (yes.. speaking personally here.) But was so upset that noone apparently bothered to tell our defenders in a major D1 game. Some guys are so good, even going one way, that they are hard to stop, and I suspect Jones is one of those guys. But most definitely, we gotta make it harder on him by forcing him to go left. beenaround everyone has to be on board with the plan of forcing a player a certain direction. It's harder to do than it seems because players are used to squaring up and playing D. Also the second level has to help because by forcing a player "left" you have to give up a step and hope you can make it up because the player's handle is inadequate. I agree with you but it's not easy. I tried to get my 12 yr old to do it in his games and he never does.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,377
|
Post by drquigley on Mar 3, 2015 11:11:28 GMT -5
I'm probably wrong but when the BE was formed wasn't it understood that teams wouldn't play at on campus gyms but rather at nearby major arenas? How far is Butler from the Bankers Life Fieldhouse in downtown Indianapolis? We really suffer from not having a Hinkley-type arena to play our home games in. In all my years of going to GU home games there have only been a handful of games where i felt that strong home court advantage. Last time was probably 2 years ago at the final game of the season and last Syracuse BE game. The arena was rocking and we beat Syracuse 61-39 that day?
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,906
|
Post by Filo on Mar 3, 2015 11:20:58 GMT -5
We shouldn't expect to win this. This team, while inconsistent in how they win and lose, has probably lost fewer games that we shouldn't have and won fewer games than we shouldn't have than any in recent Hoya history. And there's no way we're favored in Hinkle. That said, it'd be nice to see Isaac or Josh show up, and it'd be nice to see Jabril have a strong game. At this point, the other variables seem minimally important or simply unlikely. We need a second banana to DSR and Trawick needs to be solid to even have a shot. This team had tremendous upside in Josh and the freshmen. Neither have developed to hope. It's not a bad team -- it's definitely Top 30 in the country. But it could have been (and I suppose still could be) more. But it's not trending that way. I certainly agree that we've been very consistent and our consistency in not beating tournament-level teams (particularly away from home) is concerning. But I think we undersell how we've done within those losses. We lost essentially one or two possession games to Wiscy and Butler away from home and to Kansas at home. And the same with the two Provy games (one of which was away). I get the "horseshoes and hand grenades" aphorism with regard to close losses, and that's particularly true come NCAA time. I'm just saying that in terms of projecting our ability to win an NCAA game or two against a quality opponent, the way we've "consistently" lost is some indication that with the ball bouncing the right way just a bit more, we easily could get it done. By the same token, I, too, don't expect to win tonight. But I do expect it to be tight and with a bit of good fortune or unusually good play.... These are good points. We have won and lost some close games (the Providence and Butler losses were diappointing but I can deal with them). I guess for me the dark shadow looming over the team is those few times when they just did not show up and were unable to come back from pretty large deficits. It happens to all teams but it happened to us 4 times (Xavier x 2, Nova, SJU). Taking each one of these separately, the blowout loss to Nova is certainly understandable. The SJU loss was disappointing, but probably understandable given that it was the rebound game for SJU at home on their senior night. So when stepping back, I guess it comes down to those 2 Xavier games for me. What the hell was up with them, and how can the team ensure that it doesn't happen again come tournament time (BE and NCAA)?
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Mar 3, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5
I would just like to see JS not pick up 2 quick stupid fouls. I dont even care if he commits a fouls contesting a dunk or a drive, just dont get caught on the perimeter grabbing or pushing an opponent thats not even making a basketball move. That would be me very happy.
Also if i can wish for a second thing, it would be for Paul White and LJ to have a great game amd make some shots.
Boy what a difference that would produce!
|
|
mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
|
Post by mfk24 on Mar 3, 2015 11:59:58 GMT -5
I certainly agree that we've been very consistent and our consistency in not beating tournament-level teams (particularly away from home) is concerning. But I think we undersell how we've done within those losses. We lost essentially one or two possession games to Wiscy and Butler away from home and to Kansas at home. And the same with the two Provy games (one of which was away). I get the "horseshoes and hand grenades" aphorism with regard to close losses, and that's particularly true come NCAA time. I'm just saying that in terms of projecting our ability to win an NCAA game or two against a quality opponent, the way we've "consistently" lost is some indication that with the ball bouncing the right way just a bit more, we easily could get it done. By the same token, I, too, don't expect to win tonight. But I do expect it to be tight and with a bit of good fortune or unusually good play.... These are good points. We have won and lost some close games (the Providence and Butler losses were diappointing but I can deal with them). I guess for me the dark shadow looming over the team is those few times when they just did not show up and were unable to come back from pretty large deficits. It happens to all teams but it happened to us 4 times (Xavier x 2, Nova, SJU). Taking each one of these separately, the blowout loss to Nova is certainly understandable. The SJU loss was disappointing, but probably understandable given that it was the rebound game for SJU at home on their senior night. So when stepping back, I guess it comes down to those 2 Xavier games for me. What the hell was up with them, and how can the team ensure that it doesn't happen again come tournament time (BE and NCAA)? I think the Nova game you can't throw into the same class. Did anyone see what they did at Xavier? They're far and away the best team in the league, and the fact that we have shown we can beat them should show us how good we can be.
|
|
canissaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 524
|
Post by canissaxa on Mar 3, 2015 12:17:27 GMT -5
I would just like to see JS not pick up 2 quick stupid fouls. I dont even care if he commits a fouls contesting a dunk or a drive, just dont get caught on the perimeter grabbing or pushing an opponent thats not even making a basketball move. That would be me very happy. Playing at Butler, I would literally bet $1000 than Josh has 2 fouls at halftime. I'd probably bet $200 that he does so 10 min of court time or less. Not trying to be negative or even slag Josh. Just the reality of playing on the road with a player that the zebras have shown a willingness to whistle all year long when the offensive player initiates contact. Given how critical it is for an undersized team to get Josh off the court to protect their own bigs and how easy the refs and Josh himself makes it, it would be extremely poor tactical decision not to drive hard at Josh early and often.
|
|