Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Feb 11, 2015 11:32:09 GMT -5
That was a brutal game to watch in parts but I very much respected the way the Hoyas dealt with some really bizarre, one-sided calls and the timely shooting by SH in the latter part of the first half. There were a couple of forced possessions but not nearly to the level that I've felt like I could see prior to tonight in a game that, in all likelihood, the Hoyas felt they had to win. That chuckle by Josh when he got called for his third (I think) sort of summed it up for me. It was a "you have to be kidding me, you have no shot" kind of laugh at the refs and at the SH squad. Quiet points by DSR in the flow of the offense and feeding the hot hand in Isaac. Jabril efficiently taking advantage of a complete lack of defense or ability to stop him. When he took that first three, I thought to myself, "That's the Trawick we need." He's had his mental lapses but he's also had some games this year where he sees his advantage and goes and exploits it with really good results. I saw him pull back one shot that I can recall tonight that he should have taken but, other than that, he went up in rhythm and in the flow of the offense. He's shooting well and should continue to build on that. It's very important and hugely helpful to any lineup at the 4 and 5. And PW is going to come around. He's still taking shots he should take and that's a good sign. If other guys step up like they did tonight such that PW doesn't have to feel like he has to be option B or even C on a given night, those shots start dropping in a hurry. I saw a post mentioning that no one is afraid of PW on offense and that's just not true. He has to still be respected at the foul line in a zone and on a kick to a wing 3 or, really, any open three. He's a viable option on offense right now and will only improve. His stroke is too clean not to have that happen and he takes good shots most of the time. The conundrum is Joshua. We need that post presence on offense to open things up against most teams. Seton Hall isn't really one of them. He really needs to find a way to stop fouling. I liked the way in which he was used to start the game but he needs to make that adjustment for himself. Maybe preparing for fewer minutes but knowing that he has to have a foul to burn in case the team needs more out of him. He gets absolutely hosed a lot of the time and I don't know that there's a way to compensate for that. I'm sure it's not a lack of trying to figure it out but the fact remains that this squad needs someone to figure out something such that a puny guard jumping into him doesn't end up as a foul on Josh. All I could think of tonight was the late foul on LJ. I'm not advocating hurting anyone but I would not mind even a little bit if one or two of Josh's fouls a night were of the "don't even think about it" variety. You wanna jump into him as a 6 foot guard? OK. Feel that foul when you get out of bed the next morning. The number of foul shots are the same but the impression is vastly different. We get called like we play like the early nineties Knicks anyway. Dude, you have to break this up into paragraphs. My eyes simply can't undertake the effort to scroll through this.
|
|
Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
|
Post by Hoyaholic on Feb 11, 2015 11:34:32 GMT -5
Watched the game on DVR on the West Coast late last night. Even with all the positives that go along with a 19-pt road win, especially the apparent emergence of Ike as a true star, like many others I couldn't help but be infuriated by the state of officiating and how unwatchable it is making the game. On top of all the horrendous calls, you had SHU players faking injury on incidental (or non-existent) contact above the shoulders on 4 (FOUR!) separate occasions. I have really never seen anything like it. Whitehead's routine at the end of the first half was downright farcical - there was absolutely no contact to the head area at all, and even the clueless Tim Brando had the good sense to point out that it was an offensive foul if anything.
I really don't understand how JTIII and the team kept their cool through it all - I was screaming at the TV so much that my wife looked at me like I was insane when I told her we won by 20. Perhaps they were able to laugh it off knowing that they were going to eventually pull away from those clowns. The offensive foul on Trawick and the phantom 3-seconds call on DSR need to be sent to the league office. And there needs to be an anti-flopping/faking penalty regarding head contact. The rule - which is ill-conceived and horribly enacted - was nevertheless put in place to protect the health of players. Anyone who tries to use it to tactical advantage should be ejected from the game and forced to sit the next game as well.
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Feb 11, 2015 11:36:29 GMT -5
The notion that a timeout stops the run is completely false. In many respects, calling a timeout when the other team is hot is one of a the worst moves a coach can make. I'd love to see any numbers which support these claims. These assertions smell like completely unsubstantiated BS. So is the myth that III has a timeout problem. As the above poster pointed out, people ignoring the TV timeout have an ax to grind and are just nitpicking. (There is also the fact that every 11-4 run against the Hoyas since 2009 feels to fans like it is the bottom falling out.) but even more revealing were the complaints in the Providence game that flat out ignored the timeout III called that led to our only FG in the final 11 minutes. The coach doesn't and can't be the panicked emotional basket case that the fans are. Enough about timeouts.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Feb 11, 2015 11:39:43 GMT -5
If Copeland plays like that going forward, and he is certainly capable of doing so, we become a real threat to challenge for the BET title and make a deep NCAA run. Imagine if JTIII had played Copeland more earlier and started him more often? Maybe it would have been too early to do that, maybe not. In any event, it's exactly the change we needed and restores my optimism when I had some serious concerns a major slide was on the horizon. Good heavens, people. Doesn't it ever occur to people to say "Man, JTIII really did a great job bring Isaac along this year, his development has been amazing." No, instead the assumption is that Copeland playing great now means that Coach Editeded it up. Ridiculous. It's just like with the timeout thing. Ignoring the fact that they ignore TV/media timeouts as timeouts, they will complain that JTIII doesn't call timeouts, and then when JTIII does call a timeout they complain that the timeout was called too late. It's a no win situation. But that is how it is with He who must not be named and the minions of the JTIII hater's club.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
|
Post by Cambridge on Feb 11, 2015 11:42:37 GMT -5
That brings back memories of 2001 when we blew out the #11 ranked seton hall pirates so badly the team imploded culminating in a post game locker room brawl starring Eddie Griffin and Ty Shine. That team never recovered. I think it nearly ended Tommy Amaker's career. Except that they recovered enough to absolutely humiliate us at MSG. Worst Hoyas performance I have ever seen in person. I had erased that from memory. Isn't that the only game (in his 128 starts!) where Braswell dropped a goose-egg? Having trouble finding a box score but I remember him shooting like 0-8 from the field. That dude was an enigma.
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
|
Post by guru on Feb 11, 2015 11:48:11 GMT -5
Good heavens, people. Doesn't it ever occur to people to say "Man, JTIII really did a great job bring Isaac along this year, his development has been amazing." No, instead the assumption is that Copeland playing great now means that Coach Editeded it up. Ridiculous. It's just like with the timeout thing. Ignoring the fact that they ignore TV/media timeouts as timeouts, they will complain that JTIII doesn't call timeouts, and then when JTIII does call a timeout they complain that the timeout was called too late. It's a no win situation. But that is how it is with He who must not be named and the minions of the JTIII hater's club. Just cut it out, man. Your cryptic and borderline obsessive posts about so-called "JTIII haters" are just plain stupid. God forbid a college basketball coach gets criticized for bonehead moves once in a while. Jeez.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,040
|
Post by jwp91 on Feb 11, 2015 11:49:31 GMT -5
Yes, let's not use Bradley Hayes until we absolutely need him when both bigs are in trouble in a Big East Conference game that we desperately need to win. He did not look good. What do you expect when you haven't groomed him over the course of 24 games? You reap what you sow....so JTIII got exactly what he has invested...nothing during a game. I love this argument. 1. "Coach doesn't play this guy that I think could be a huge help! What the hell!" 2.Coach plays the guy, and virtually every time he does the opposing team gets a layup near the rim. 3. "Damnit it is Coach's fault for not giving him more minutes so that he doesn't suck when he does play!" No, you don't have an ax to grind. I don't agree with how you characterize my argument. I have no axe to grind other than a successful Hoya team/program. Fact - we will need a 3rd center because, at some point, there is a very high probability that both our foul-prone centers will be in foul trouble. Hayes appears to be our 3rd string center. Let's make sure he is ready for when he is needed... Against a better team, this game bites JT3 in the a**. If Hayes isn't ready and we lose, I think the blame sits squarely JT3 shoulders. (BTW, I am a strong JT3 proponent.)
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Feb 11, 2015 11:50:22 GMT -5
It's just like with the timeout thing. Ignoring the fact that they ignore TV/media timeouts as timeouts, they will complain that JTIII doesn't call timeouts, and then when JTIII does call a timeout they complain that the timeout was called too late. It's a no win situation. But that is how it is with He who must not be named and the minions of the JTIII hater's club. Just cut it out, man. Your cryptic and borderline obsessive posts about so-called "JTIII haters" are just plain stupid. God forbid a college basketball coach gets criticized for bonehead moves once in a while. Jeez. I'm not even referring to you. Stop taking it so personally.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 11, 2015 11:51:28 GMT -5
The notion that a timeout stops the run is completely false. In many respects, calling a timeout when the other team is hot is one of a the worst moves a coach can make. I'd love to see any numbers which support these claims. These assertions smell like completely unsubstantiated BS. Do you have any support for a contrary position?
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
|
Post by guru on Feb 11, 2015 11:51:49 GMT -5
Just cut it out, man. Your cryptic and borderline obsessive posts about so-called "JTIII haters" are just plain stupid. God forbid a college basketball coach gets criticized for bonehead moves once in a while. Jeez. I'm not even referring to you. Stop taking it so personally. I assumed you weren't referring to me. Not taking it personally at all. It's just annoying and dumb. So stop it.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 11, 2015 12:08:06 GMT -5
And enter the wild overreaction to a win! It's a see-saw here at Hoya headquarters. - Let's not go too overboard here. Seton Hall isn't good. They are ranked 97th in defense in KenPom and 66th in offense. Now, not every team we've lost to has been great on defense, but we haven't lost to anyone (knock on wood) as bad as Seton Hall. There are five NCAA Big East Teams, we are currently 2-6 against them. It's great that we are winning our games against the bottom half, and I think we have a pretty good chance of stealing the Butler game and maybe one against this crew in the tourney, but I don't think we can take this game as a definitive measure.
- To that point, the idea that Josh is useless and should sit so we can play small is just kind of silly. Josh played like crap the three prior games, but he came this game with a ton of energy and was a huge net positive when the refs let him play. I don't mind going to the small lineup but acting like Josh is the inhibitor to scoring 80 is silly. Larger drivers of that: hot shooting; poor defense; forced turnovers; the beast man-child that is Isaac Copeland; not playing Hopkins and Smith together; not playing Hopkins at all. Don't get me wrong -- I love Ike at center in many situations -- probably more than Thompson will, frankly -- but Smith being off the floor didn't drive our offense today.
- Isaac was obviously fantastic, and if this was a leap rather than a good game, we've found our second star. His early shot makes opened up the offense, but the part I was most impressed with were the three offensive rebounds. Offensive rebounds that are converted back are devastating to a defense -- not all that different than a steal and fast break points. Just came at key points. I hope he is as engaged when the shots aren't dropping -- his game right now is still VERY jumper dependent -- much like Otto's.
- DSR is so quietly good that few people ever give him recognition, but what a game. The five steals in particular were huge. People keep focusing on Smith as slowing us down but we didn't run in this game because Smith was out, we ran in this game for two key reasons: we generated a lot of steals; and we were agressive -- Trawick in particular. It's not like we ever got the ball to a trailer on the break -- no one needs to wait for Smith. We defensive-rebounded well, but this team is actually pretty good at that.
- LOVED the energy this team came out with early. We honestly didn't keep it all that long, but aggressive D, generating steals, movement off the ball. The latter is something that is always key to our offense -- when the players without the ball stop moving, so does the offense. Our best move on isolation is a pull up jumper from DSR (Copeland), so it's rarely good thing to effectively run it by failing to move and create space off the ball. But I wish we could see more energy on a regular basis. I think our guards are pretty sneaky, so pressuring the ball is probably worth drives we'll give up in return. After all, a conservative D isn't working that well, right?
- I know people love fire, etc., but yesterday was the benefit of an even keel. that team lost a 20 point lead and didn't get down AT ALL. We don't panic often. I know there are times it feels like a little extra fire might jump start us, but if that's true, the flipside is that there are times when our cool character keeps us from falling apart. I think both effects are probably overstated, but there's no clear right "personality" here.
- Josh has got to learn how to play with these refs. He actually played well yesterday -- the energy was back, he wasn't forcing things, he was moving. That's key for him -- he gets into trouble when he relies on his strength. He's got to rely on his surprising quickness and let his size work for itself. The refs were terrible with him, but he's got to find a way because he's still an important cog.
- It's usually only 5 or so turnovers a game, but it's amazing how much TOs are a bellweather for the offense this year. That's one thing the small lineup does do -- Hopkins and Smith account for a ridiculous amount of turnovers. Keeping them off the floor does give us more shots there.
- For all the talk of LJ Peak slumping in BE play, he's actually pretty much the same player except he can't buy a three. Good for a guard from 2, defense has been solid, just can't hit a shot.
- From the things JTIII doesn't do file: change the starting lineup (okay, this was too long in coming); switch up the defenses (going to zone both protecting us from foul issues and flummoxed SHU for a while; design inbounds plays (we'll put that on SHU -- but can you see why you play zone so often out of the inbounds?).
|
|
aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 342
|
Post by aristides on Feb 11, 2015 12:10:04 GMT -5
I feel like this game will be the start of a streak. As Jon Snow say's, "March is coming"*, and this team will be ready.
Copeland's play is so much fun to watch. His game is night and day from what it was at the start of the season.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 11, 2015 12:13:34 GMT -5
I love this argument. 1. "Coach doesn't play this guy that I think could be a huge help! What the hell!" 2.Coach plays the guy, and virtually every time he does the opposing team gets a layup near the rim. 3. "Damnit it is Coach's fault for not giving him more minutes so that he doesn't suck when he does play!" No, you don't have an ax to grind. I don't agree with how you characterize my argument. I have no axe to grind other than a successful Hoya team/program. Fact - we will need a 3rd center because, at some point, there is a very high probability that both our foul-prone centers will be in foul trouble. Hayes appears to be our 3rd string center. Let's make sure he is ready for when he is needed... Against a better team, this game bites JT3 in the a**. If Hayes isn't ready and we lose, I think the blame sits squarely JT3 shoulders. (BTW, I am a strong JT3 proponent.) The huge unsaid assumption here is that development largely or only happens in games. I think that's false. Most player development happens in practice, either with the team or on their own time. While game play obviously has some unique components and is a necessary step, there's just so much MORE practice time plus the ability for realtime feedback from the staff. Just playing Hayes in games more won't make him better. If he's not ready, it's not for a lack of game time. For the record, I think he's been passable in some games and less so in others.
|
|
Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
|
Post by Buckets on Feb 11, 2015 12:24:17 GMT -5
Except that they recovered enough to absolutely humiliate us at MSG. Worst Hoyas performance I have ever seen in person. I had erased that from memory. Isn't that the only game (in his 128 starts!) where Braswell dropped a goose-egg? Having trouble finding a box score but I remember him shooting like 0-8 from the field. That dude was an enigma. You seemed like you really wanted to relive it so I found it for you: www.bbstate.com/games/2001-03-08/GU-SHUYou can relive some more Braswell game logs here, but you'll eventually run into a paywall: www.bbstate.com/teams/GU/player/kevin-braswell/01
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,040
|
Post by jwp91 on Feb 11, 2015 12:27:24 GMT -5
As the parent of a competitive soccer player who has played club soccer for almost 10 years, every expert I have heard speak (and I have listened and read many) has said that playing time is fundamental to development.
I imagine that basketball and soccer are not that different in this regard.
Is playing time the only way to develop? No. Is it part of the plan? I believe so.
I find it borderline ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 11, 2015 12:34:35 GMT -5
As the parent of a competitive soccer player who has played club soccer for almost 10 years, every expert I have heard speak (and I have listened and read many) has said that playing time is fundamental to development. I imagine that basketball and soccer are not that different in this regard. Is playing time the only way to develop? No. Is it part of the plan? I believe so. I find it borderline ludicrous to suggest otherwise. No one has said it is not valuable. But the idea that 3-5 minutes is going to transform Hayes from what he is to something extremely valuable is equally ludicrous. So I ask again: how many of our close wins this year are you willing to give up for a better third string center?
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Feb 11, 2015 12:46:07 GMT -5
It's just like with the timeout thing. Ignoring the fact that they ignore TV/media timeouts as timeouts, they will complain that JTIII doesn't call timeouts, and then when JTIII does call a timeout they complain that the timeout was called too late. It's a no win situation. But that is how it is with He who must not be named and the minions of the JTIII hater's club. Just cut it out, man. Your cryptic and borderline obsessive posts about so-called "JTIII haters" are just plain stupid. God forbid a college basketball coach gets criticized for bonehead moves once in a while. Jeez. Coaches certainly should expect criticism for their boneheaded moves. JTIII can be criticized for his boneheaded moves too! But because there is no actual evidence of a "timeout problem" beyond the panicked, pessimistic emotional reactions of many of us around here (as contradicted by the available evidence), this isn't a case where there is a boneheaded move to criticize. People really should try to be fair in their criticisms if they expect them to be taken seriously.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Feb 11, 2015 12:47:40 GMT -5
As the parent of a competitive soccer player who has played club soccer for almost 10 years, every expert I have heard speak (and I have listened and read many) has said that playing time is fundamental to development.
I imagine that basketball and soccer are not that different in this regard. Is playing time the only way to develop? No. Is it part of the plan? I believe so. I find it borderline ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Playing time is in the interest of the player. But it is not always in the best interest of the team. That's why players transfer to other schools. You only have a finite amount of minutes to distribute among 10, 12 players. As a parent you want your child to get as much playing time as possible. If your club is not providing it you should seek another club that will give the child more playing time. But from a team perspective giving your child playing time may not be in their best interest. After all giving one child playing time cuts into playing time for the rest of the children on the team.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
|
Post by hoyazeke on Feb 11, 2015 12:51:16 GMT -5
I was gonna say the same thing SF. The amount of PT that we can afford BHayes at this point in the season will not improve his game. At this point it's probably a confidence issue anyway. We have gotten recaps of Brad playing well over the summer but when he does get PT he rarely even tries to score. I'm not expecting anything from Brad until next season. Early in the season he will get 10-15mins/gm vs the cupcakes and he will get comfortable. But with Josh and Hop there isn't time for growing pains before he is pulled. Next year early he will get his chance to have a HSims type senior year. I for one hope that Brad takes advantage of it.......
|
|
|
Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Feb 11, 2015 12:51:57 GMT -5
|
|