SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 11, 2014 1:45:44 GMT -5
We can moan about this game until we all turn blue. But quite frankly, I'm pretty pleased with the performance. Would it have been nice to get the win? Of course. But we just went blow for blow with a final four contender, and given a bit more seasoning for our freshman, and a better shooting night for DSR, we win that game. It's December. This team is going to get there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 4:30:24 GMT -5
When the game gets tight we take a lot of terrible shots. They lack poise in those key moments. We take way too many bad shots in those possessions and most of the time early in the clock, It’s a waste of a possession and completely bails out the defense. If you only make them work for a couple seconds and then throw up some contested BS you deserve to loose.That’s not how you play the game, stick to what got u there. Play for a good shot not a Sportcenter highlight.
You’re not going to win a lot of close games playing like that and we will be in a lot of close games come conference play
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 11, 2014 5:37:45 GMT -5
this team has to learn to close games. the wisconsin, butler and kansas games were all there for the taking and the team could not get it done. you aren't beating any top 10 team with your best player shooting 3-15 but at some point other players have to step up. josh was very good offensively last night but he turns it over too much and he is a serious liability defensively. hopkins on the other hand is a huge asset defenively but he's still a black hole on offense and makes bad decisions. the upperclassmen as a whole turn it over at an alarming rate. 2 missed front ends of 1-1 late didn't help and i thought they tried to force it to josh too much late in the game.
games like these are great to prep the team for league play but only if the guys make the adjustments to turn these losses into wins.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 11, 2014 7:58:39 GMT -5
We can moan about this game until we all turn blue. But quite frankly, I'm pretty pleased with the performance. Would it have been nice to get the win? Of course. But we just went blow for blow with a final four contender, and given a bit more seasoning for our freshman, and a better shooting night for DSR, we win that game. It's December. This team is going to get there. If we can't somehow learn how to stop making silly turnovers and missing bunches of free throws - mistakes made primarily by our upperclassmen last night - some "seasoning" for our freshmen will not be enough to get us anywhere. We are more than 25% into our season. No more time for moral victories. We need to actually win some of these games. I want the Hoyas to be a team that somebody other than FoxSports talks about.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 11, 2014 8:20:49 GMT -5
Hours later and still upset over another opportunity lost. Hard to blame Freshmen for playing like Freshmen and this group is so much better than any recent group on the Hilltop. My questions come from the startling mistakes of the veterans and even the coach. JT III has worked magic with Smith and his effort last night was the most complete I have seen in watching him play for more than 4 years. JT III's use of his bench reverted to historic form after going 9 deep earlier this year against even Florida and Wisconsin.
No one needs to pile on Jabril but he is clearly not playing as well as he did after the injury last year. Moreover, the head down bullrush to the basket is something he has done before but seems even more inclined to do this year. He played as much as anyone but his production does not warrant giving Bowen, an equally good defender and rebounder just 3 minutes. Jabril took two shots, made one, gathered 6 rebounds and 3 assists with a couple of turnovers. Not terrible but not enough either for a senior. By the way where did the boxscore at Hoyasaxa come from? Shows Bowen and Tre playing almost as much as White and Copeland.
DSR has got to get his game back to some level of consistency. This team is so talented that it does not need him to carry it every game, but it does need him to provide stability. He cannot allow frustration to take over. Starks was great last year at pushing on through a bad game and still producing. DSR needs to keep plugging despite the mistakes.
I believe that this team will make the tournament, but to my surprise what seems to be the missing piece is not on the inside but the outside. They need to figure out how to create scoring from the perimeter and finally end a streak of a couple of years of absolutely horrible perimeteer defense.
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HoyaPride
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Post by HoyaPride on Dec 11, 2014 8:56:12 GMT -5
Free Throws that is all, Free Throws. Make them when you have them (especially front ends) and don't put the other team in the bonus at the 12:00 mark with many unnecessary fouls. That plagued them last year, and was THE difference last night.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 11, 2014 9:01:49 GMT -5
Cal, agree on bowen for Jabril but that would be my only gripe with coach and that is a feel thing. We had some sets out of timeouts that were great. Coach did that. One was a blown layup by LJ but coach got people in the right spot. Free throws didn't help but we lost the game because our defensive rotations stunk. Greene hit all five threes but they were also all wide open looks. When Bowen was in at the end he didn't close out on Greene again but Greene didn't shoot. All 14K knew he had a hot hand at that point. They shot 30% better from three than their average and every time we got close or ahead, they hit a big shot and we didn't. That is just the way things go sometimes.
I also think we came out a little to jacked up which 18 to 22 year olds will do. That early 11 point hole didn't help. On to the next one. Gotta take care of business with Radford & Charlotte and then beat a talented but defensively lacking IU team that also can get crazy hot from three.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 11, 2014 9:53:41 GMT -5
Cal, agree on bowen for Jabril but that would be my only gripe with coach and that is a feel thing. We had some sets out of timeouts that were great. Coach did that. One was a blown layup by LJ but coach got people in the right spot. Free throws didn't help but we lost the game because our defensive rotations stunk. Greene hit all five threes but they were also all wide open looks. When Bowen was in at the end he didn't close out on Greene again but Greene didn't shoot. All 14K knew he had a hot hand at that point. They shot 30% better from three than their average and every time we got close or ahead, they hit a big shot and we didn't. That is just the way things go sometimes. I also think we came out a little to jacked up which 18 to 22 year olds will do. That early 11 point hole didn't help. On to the next one. Gotta take care of business with Radford & Charlotte and then beat a talented but defensively lacking IU team that also can get crazy hot from three. I agree with your thought that the players may have been a little too jacked up. This was not their first "big game" but it was their first big game at home and with a relatively large crowd. Hard to compare the earlier games against Florida, Wisconsin and Butler before a small crowd with the atmosphere last night. I think that JT III has been doing an good job this year, particularly with a lineup that includes so many young players. Last night was a big game and understandably the temptation is to shrink the bench. Yet, without shrinking the bench they went toe-to-toe with Wisconsin and Kansas and actually played better than last night in both games. My quibble is not just about Bowen/Trawick usage, but I also would have used Tre more to give the guards a break. Throughout the game many of the shots from DSR and others were short or off the front-rim or to the side of the rim. Poor form and short shots are often a sign of tired legs. As well as Smith was playing and Hopkins too on defense, I was surprised that the Hoyas did not extend the defense more on the perimeter to at least move the Kansas players out of their comfort zone. Most of the problem I saw with the wide-open 3s came from Peak missing a rotation and a couple of times on White and Copeland. Yet, DSR was not getting out there either as the Jayhawks used alot of high screens to create open shots for their shooters. Is it the design of the defense or were the players just tired? I won't pretend to know how anyone felt. I just know that it is a recurring problem.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 11, 2014 9:55:08 GMT -5
When the game gets tight we take a lot of terrible shots. They lack poise in those key moments. We take way too many bad shots in those possessions and most of the time early in the clock, It’s a waste of a possession and completely bails out the defense. If you only make them work for a couple seconds and then throw up some contested BS you deserve to loose.That’s not how you play the game, stick to what got u there. Play for a good shot not a Sportcenter highlight. You’re not going to win a lot of close games playing like that and we will be in a lot of close games come conference play Very true. Some of that is the freshmen, I think. Hopefully they learn from this. Of course, they might avoid a lot of those close games if they clean up the stupid turnovers.
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Post by dehoya on Dec 11, 2014 10:16:20 GMT -5
This may have been posted before but I have seen all season that since moving DSR to the lead guard/point guard he is being pressured bringing the ball down the court and spending a lot of his energy guarding the point guard. He is not as comfortable getting good shots this way and his legs are gone in the second half most games. He did have a great game against Wisconsin but I do not think you can expect that every game. Although his size may warrant him being a pg if he continues after college, he just is not as effective in that role. A senior Markel Starks this year would be amazing, but I guess we could say something like that every year.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 11, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5
I agree that we have been poor in crunch time so far this year. That is something that would concern me much more in January and February (and certainly going into March). But that is a problem that teams still feeling themselves out often have. There are a lot of new faces this year (including Josh Smith who is essentially new). Yes of course, we want DSR to be at his POY best right now, and we are all frustrated with Trawick's play last night. But DSR will come around. And Trawick---well he may always be Trawick---but he will get some confidence back and be a key contributor going forward.
The key thing to me so far this year is that unlike last year---where if either DSR or Kel and a night off, game over---this year two of our upper classmen had poor games, our freshman were good but still showed some of their youth, AND YET we were right there with Kansas the whole way.
If we have learned anything from the last 6 years, to me its this---games in December may be nice for seeding purposes, but they are completely meaningless in the end. No one cares if we beat a top ten team in December if our lack of depth causes us to get shown up come March. This team is clearly the most balanced and skillful since Roy was on campus. And they don't appear to have any of the chemistry issues of the Summers-Sapp era.
I believe this team will put it all together, because for the first time in a while, all the pieces are there. We may not have a national POY candidate like Otto this year, but frankly that team showed its weakness in March because of the lack of options outside of Mr. Porter. Once this team is fully jelled, it will have the ability to withstand an off night from ANY Hoya. Call me naive, but I'm feeling good right now.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 11, 2014 11:26:52 GMT -5
this team has to learn to close games. the wisconsin, butler and kansas games were all there for the taking and the team could not get it done. you aren't beating any top 10 team with your best player shooting 3-15 but at some point other players have to step up. josh was very good offensively last night but he turns it over too much and he is a serious liability defensively. hopkins on the other hand is a huge asset defenively but he's still a black hole on offense and makes bad decisions. the upperclassmen as a whole turn it over at an alarming rate. 2 missed front ends of 1-1 late didn't help and i thought they tried to force it to josh too much late in the game. games like these are great to prep the team for league play but only if the guys make the adjustments to turn these losses into wins. You're gonna have to live with that until the freshmen stop making mistakes. It will come in time if we keep playing them. In crunch time every mistake is critical. LJ Peak not covering Brannen Greene for open 3s. Paul White throwing away the baseline throw in to a streaking opponent for a fast break easy two in the Butler game. But playing these freshmen now in these big games in critical situations is preferable to suddenly thrusting them in the spot light in the BET or NCAAs.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 11, 2014 11:39:07 GMT -5
KU Game Thread: Sometimes it's good to read other team's threads to gain perspective. Ironically they shower praise on Georgetown players and are highly critical of KU players and their team. (Such things as, why can't our freshmen play like LJ Peak, How Wayne Selden gets blocked by the rim 2-3 times every game. Sound familiar, etc). kansas.247sports.com/Board/59455/Contents/Kansas-v-Georgetown-Game-Thread-33752600
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 11, 2014 11:52:59 GMT -5
Cal, agree on bowen for Jabril but that would be my only gripe with coach and that is a feel thing. We had some sets out of timeouts that were great. Coach did that. One was a blown layup by LJ but coach got people in the right spot. Free throws didn't help but we lost the game because our defensive rotations stunk. Greene hit all five threes but they were also all wide open looks. When Bowen was in at the end he didn't close out on Greene again but Greene didn't shoot. All 14K knew he had a hot hand at that point. They shot 30% better from three than their average and every time we got close or ahead, they hit a big shot and we didn't. That is just the way things go sometimes. I also think we came out a little to jacked up which 18 to 22 year olds will do. That early 11 point hole didn't help. On to the next one. Gotta take care of business with Radford & Charlotte and then beat a talented but defensively lacking IU team that also can get crazy hot from three. I agree with your thought that the players may have been a little too jacked up. This was not their first "big game" but it was their first big game at home and with a relatively large crowd. Hard to compare the earlier games against Florida, Wisconsin and Butler before a small crowd with the atmosphere last night. I think that JT III has been doing an good job this year, particularly with a lineup that includes so many young players. Last night was a big game and understandably the temptation is to shrink the bench. Yet, without shrinking the bench they went toe-to-toe with Wisconsin and Kansas and actually played better than last night in both games. My quibble is not just about Bowen/Trawick usage, but I also would have used Tre more to give the guards a break. Throughout the game many of the shots from DSR and others were short or off the front-rim or to the side of the rim. Poor form and short shots are often a sign of tired legs. As well as Smith was playing and Hopkins too on defense, I was surprised that the Hoyas did not extend the defense more on the perimeter to at least move the Kansas players out of their comfort zone. Most of the problem I saw with the wide-open 3s came from Peak missing a rotation and a couple of times on White and Copeland. Yet, DSR was not getting out there either as the Jayhawks used alot of high screens to create open shots for their shooters. Is it the design of the defense or were the players just tired? I won't pretend to know how anyone felt. I just know that it is a recurring problem. We had one game in 12 days before last night. If tired legs were a problem already, it is going to be a very long season.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 11, 2014 11:59:08 GMT -5
I have to ask - why do we just assume that the freshmen will stop making mistakes with a little more experience. I mean I know they will improve their games, will get stronger and more confident, etc. - but many of the inexcusable turnovers, defensive lapses and other mistakes come from our seniors and juniors, who have plenty of experience I certainly have great expectations for this group of freshmen, and I believe they can carry us to some pretty high levels over the next few years - but let's not count on it quite yet.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 11, 2014 12:13:27 GMT -5
I agree with the "too jacked" theory for the opening 10 minutes of this game contributing to sloppy turnovers, poor shooting, etc. The team looked young for those first couple of TV timeouts. They were excited to play a Top 10 team at home and a little tight/excited. And again they looked young down the stretch. Not a total surprise, Smith is not exactly a grizzled veteran in those situations despite being a senior. The turnovers, missed 1 and 1s and lack of creating an open look at the end, killed us. All thing I guess we need to live with for now, but that should be improving as these situations replay themselves in the future.
My biggest concern right now is DSR. He is still adapting to this lead guard role, but I would like to see III help him out and put Campbell in not to sub out DSR, but to allow him to play off the ball for a few possessions in a row. I really think he is wearing too many hats right now for the team. He was the leading rebounder and assist man last night, and he is also expected to be the leading scorer. He is trying to do it all, and he forced things last night.
Other than that, turnovers in the front court continue to happen. Smith is a weapon, but he turns it over too. I thought we may have been too deliberate in getting the ball in the post last night (I could never imagine writing that before). I would have liked to see a little more ball movement, perhaps find an open shot. I would have definitely liked to see more Bowen/Campbell, Trawick did not have it last night.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 11, 2014 12:17:46 GMT -5
I have to ask - why do we just assume that the freshmen will stop making mistakes with a little more experience. I mean I know they will improve their games, will get stronger and more confident, etc. - but many of the inexcusable turnovers, defensive lapses and other mistakes come from our seniors and juniors, who have plenty of experience I certainly have great expectations for this group of freshmen, and I believe they can carry us to some pretty high levels over the next few years - but let's not count on it quite yet. Well with that attitude which just plays right into TJI from Dallas, Texas' negative narrative agenda then why even watch. Just give up on the season now. Bowen and Hopkins are just limited. I think it's more a coordination issue with Hopkins. Kind of the big kid who is uncoordinated and will never be as coordinated as a smaller guy. But you know what he's improved alot and worked really hard with what he has and defensively and with rebounds he brings alot to the table. (He had two beautiful backdoor passes to the freshman among his 4 assists and nobody notices.) Same with Bowen. He's worked very hard but sometimes his basketball IQ isn't very high. As far as Trawick. Nobody really had a big problem with him till this year. All the hate was focussed on Lubick and Hopkins to a lesser extent. And now all of a sudden it seems like Trawick is the new punching bag like Lubick was last year. Why do we even have to do that. It's unpleasant and unnecessary. Even yesterday, he still had 6 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block yet people didn't notice. He's not a good outside shooter. But that's one of the hardest things to change after you've shot with bad form for most of your life. Not to mention, Trawick has a bunch of hand problems and bandages which can't help his shot. But he's an active defensive stopper who is active on the boards.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 11, 2014 12:23:34 GMT -5
I agree with the "too jacked" theory for the opening 10 minutes of this game contributing to sloppy turnovers, poor shooting, etc. The team looked young for those first couple of TV timeouts. They were excited to play a Top 10 team at home and a little tight/excited. And again they looked young down the stretch. Not a total surprise,. I disagree. Both teams came out "jacked" and were turning it over and going at lighting speed. The main problem early on was that their overall length and activity and size, especially at the 3 position was hurting us and letting them outrebound us. The turn around happened when III went to putting a big frontcourt line up of Josh Smith plus Hopkins plus Copeland/Paul White (at the 3 spot) with Peak sliding over to shooting guard along with DSR. That unit is what turned it around. This adjustment is what allowed us to turn it around.
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canissaxa
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Post by canissaxa on Dec 11, 2014 12:36:48 GMT -5
My first chance to see the team live. Very disappointed by loss, but fun to watch nonetheless.
Couple of points I haven't seen posted elsewhere: 1) I think Jabril was very well scouted. Bill Self is an exceptional coach (can you imagine if JTIII had won a share of the Big East crown for 12 years in a row) and he coached his players to get in front of him and to dig down on Jabril's somewhat shaky handle. Not sure if that will be a problem for other BE foes with less talent and less solid coaching but more familiarity. Love Jabril's drives when they work, but they're always to the right and they're always head down. He's managed to make it work mostly for 3.25 years... - In support of this scouting point, KU almost exclusively pressed when Jabril was running the point. 2) Bowen for Trawick might make sense given how Trawick was playing last night, but given the ball pressure, I'm not sure they're a one-to-one switch. 3) That said, JTIII did some interesting substitutions yesterday where the team got a lot smaller or a lot larger depending on situation. We played one very small lineup with Hop, Cope, Peak, Trawick, and DSR and a very big lineup with Smith, Hop, Cop, White, and DSR. Not sure I was completely following the coaching chess game, but interesting to consider and different from normal substitutions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 12:40:05 GMT -5
If guys don’t figure out how to have some poise when the game tightens our March will be spent in the NIT…
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