GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 10, 2014 22:21:57 GMT -5
Not having a seasoned point guard might just be our undoing this year. I would have to agree. I think you just have to take the good with the bad with Peak right now. It's torture watching trawick handle the ball and I just think DSR can't do everything.
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HoyaSC
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 514
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Post by HoyaSC on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:56 GMT -5
Crowd sounded and looked great on TV.
The talent gap that was very apparent last year has been erased. We're going to be fine. These games will have us more than ready for conference play. I expect this team to contend for the regular season title. Screw Villanova.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Dec 10, 2014 22:25:23 GMT -5
There are 2 sides of the court ladies & gents.. Hop has a place on this team, so to not play him would be a mistake.
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BurgerMadness
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
"Two (yes, two) quarter pounders..."
Posts: 267
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Post by BurgerMadness on Dec 10, 2014 22:31:12 GMT -5
There are 2 sides of the court ladies & gents.. Hop has a place on this team, so to not play him would be a mistake. Don't disagree, but he needs to know his offensive limitations and not try to force a shot with 10 secs left on the shot clock. I can't recall the last time I saw a hook shot get blocked by the primary on the ball defender. Horrible....
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Dec 10, 2014 22:31:15 GMT -5
Feel like we mostly beat ourselves - though the benchwarmer going 5 for 5 from 3 point land didn't help either.
Still optimistic about our potential but we need to get some big wins now. Margin for error has gotten awfully small - and if we don't beat Indiana than the margin for error is gone and we need to be really really impressive in conference play to solidify a bid.
I don't think that's all that great a Kansas team either. But would have been a big win for us nonetheless. Damn - missed opportunity.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 10, 2014 22:34:41 GMT -5
Hopkins is just inconsistent. He did have a couple of great defensive plays. He must become more of an offensive threat, though. We need to somehow find/clone another Peak, White, and Copeland along with a more flexible Josh Smith. And we need two more point guards that are capable ball handlers.
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BurgerMadness
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
"Two (yes, two) quarter pounders..."
Posts: 267
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Post by BurgerMadness on Dec 10, 2014 22:39:46 GMT -5
Just hope we make a strong statement vs Indiana later this month. I'd hate to carry images of LaLa and Furries into next year. No amount of alcohol tonight has helped quell those images. Whatever happened to crazy, rowdy, and well dressed fans?
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 10, 2014 22:39:49 GMT -5
Hopkins is just inconsistent. He did have a couple of great defensive plays. He must become more of an offensive threat, though. We need to somehow find/clone another Peak, White, and Copeland along with a more flexible Josh Smith. And we need two more point guards that are capable ball handlers. I think once Copeland and White add a bit more strength, we will be in a lot better shape. You can tell they are talented, and once they stop getting pushed around on rebounds, the team would be much more athletic on the court with both of them playing a lot of minutes, and both can be very effective from the elbow. I'm so tired of seeing 6'9 guys missing layups and getting blocked...
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 10, 2014 22:42:11 GMT -5
There are 2 sides of the court ladies & gents.. Hop has a place on this team, so to not play him would be a mistake. Don't disagree, but he needs to know his offensive limitations and not try to force a shot with 10 secs left on the shot clock. I can't recall the last time I saw a hook shot get blocked by the primary on the ball defender. Horrible.... That was so odd, he actually brought the hook forward to a point where it could more easily be blocked, negating the whole point of using a hook shot in the first place. Don't think I've ever seen that, either.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Dec 10, 2014 22:42:33 GMT -5
Hopkins is just inconsistent. He did have a couple of great defensive plays. He must become more of an offensive threat, though. We need to somehow find/clone another Peak, White, and Copeland along with a more flexible Josh Smith. And we need two more point guards that are capable ball handlers. I think for Hopkins it has to be, if he wants to score collect the ball off the offensive glass and dunk it or get fouled and hit your free throws. He gets blocked consistently, turns the ball over whenever he puts it on the floor, he just isn't that skilled an offensive player in that role. He can hit the jumper from 10-12 ft so maybe he should just take those but anytime he has the ball in the post I cringe.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 10, 2014 22:43:21 GMT -5
So a lot variations on the "we'll be dangerous come March" or "we're almost there" theme, much like after the Battle 4 Atlantis. Which is fitting, because to my eye we essentially played a carbon copy of the Butler game (maybe swap "guard Brennen Greene" with "get back in transition D" as your defensive oops du jour). Even if both the preceding sentiments are true, it does seem a touch unrealistic that we'd have figured everything out in two weeks. The most pressing problems--turnovers, less than opportunistic FT shooting, the lack of a third scorer in any given game--are more troublesome than we'd like to admit. So we missed another opportunity against a ranked team. Do we confront the question: okay, so what does "we're almost there" mean? I think we'll be dangerous come March. But what about, like, late January? The third scorer thing might be the closest to getting fixed. Any of LJ Peak, Paul White, or Isaac Copeland probably could play that role in very short order. They're only getting more consistent. Turnovers though...IDK, I think we really lack strong ballhandling right now, and with Josh being prone to getting the ball poked away, I think it's gonna be a constant menace. Who knows what to do about free throws--shoot, I'd take 73% from this crew if offered, but the timing of missed one and ones is vexing. Wouldn't be the first time we were slow out of the gate. The 2007 team was kinda blah until mid-January, and the 2013 team did that weird thing where you lose in Tampa, and both turned out fine. Would I be surprised if we rolled off some killer winning streak starting in like three weeks? Nah, but I also wouldn't be surprised right now if we ended up 10-8 in the Big East and the scariest 10 seed in the NCAAs. (Big East refs, btw. )
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 10, 2014 22:43:55 GMT -5
Hopkins is just inconsistent. He did have a couple of great defensive plays. He must become more of an offensive threat, though. We need to somehow find/clone another Peak, White, and Copeland along with a more flexible Josh Smith. And we need two more point guards that are capable ball handlers. I think once Copeland and White add a bit more strength, we will be in a lot better shape. You can tell they are talented, and once they stop getting pushed around on rebounds, the team would be much more athletic on the court with both of them playing a lot of minutes, and both can be very effective from the elbow. I'm so tired of seeing 6'9 guys missing layups and getting blocked... Boxing out is still a problem for the freshman. So many time they let their man get the offensive board with zero resistance or boxing out. Easily corrected but the freshman are killing us on the defensive boards right now.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 10, 2014 22:44:36 GMT -5
We need to have as our main cast: Josh, White, Copeland, Smith-Rivera, and Tre Campbell. Take Devontes off the ball. We could also try having White be the "point forward" once the ball is past half court. I think that might actually work best.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
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Post by calhoya on Dec 10, 2014 22:46:43 GMT -5
To be honest I felt the game was lost in the first half when the Hoyas got down by 10 points (at one time as much as 15 points). The history of the Hoyas under III is that when they face such deficits, even in the first half, they may come back enough to make a good game of it, but they typically can't finish the job (yes, there are a few exceptions but they are just that...exceptions). The first ten or so minutes killed this team. The defense was pretty good and the competitiveness was there, but the offense was way too shaky. Is it too much to ask for a III team to look smooth, confident and effective for the opening 8 minutes or so in a big game? Those unforced turnovers especially had me yelling at the TV. Perhaps the team was just not used to playing in an arena that actually had a decent crowd to watch and therefore got a little jittery. Trawick was awful. I think he lost the ball four times, two of those times when the team was in a position to score. Then early in that second half he was too much a coward to take that wide open three from the corner even though he has become good at that shot. All of his teammates on the bench stood up thinking he was going to take that three and make it. But Jabril thought about and gave the rock up. He isn't providing much so far as a senior. In the big games so far against the elite competition he has been ineffective. Don't know why III couldn't see that an just put in Bowen in Trawick's place. Hopkins played some great defense and battled on the boards, but, oh man, you know whenever he goes up for a shot and is contested he is gonna miss. Possibly should have sat more and had Copeland take his minutes. If DSR wants to be big time and have a shot at winning BE POY he can not have these kind of outcomes as tonight and against Butler. Missed some easy shots. He too needed a little more time on the pine to collect his thoughts. III could have placed Campbell on the floor for five minutes but III got into his conservative mode again. DSR had a chance to make up for his subpar game if he could just hit that three that would have put the Hoyas up under a minutes to go. But he missed again and that was pretty much ballgame right there. Free throws. We are all tired of talking about this but it keeps popping up all the time. The Jayhawks had frosh knocking down theirs and we had seniors choking at the line. Kansas really moved the ball well for a team that just a couple of weeks ago looked so stagnant on O. Hoyas on the other hand looked terrible in the halfcourt. Is this team going to once again shoot way below its capability from the three-point line? Agree with most of this. Some other random thoughts as the disappointment begins to subside-----Bowen brings more to the team right now than Jabril but the coach has his opinion and clearly sees more in Trawick than he has shown on the court. Perhaps it's leadership, but when Trawick decides to drive it is a TO or foul waiting to happen as he lowers his head and bulls his way forward assuming he will get the shot or the call. Where is his outside shot? DSR is obviously hurt more by the loss of Starks than any other player on this team. I truly believe that any team can improve its FT shooting, particularly at home. KU shot and made 6 more FTs tonight. The misses on the front end of a 1+1 are real killers. Also they doubled up the Hoyas on 3pt shots made with 10/17 compared to 5/16. Truth be told at least two of the 3s made by the Hoyas were lucky shots off the backboard.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 10, 2014 22:46:59 GMT -5
I think once Copeland and White add a bit more strength, we will be in a lot better shape. You can tell they are talented, and once they stop getting pushed around on rebounds, the team would be much more athletic on the court with both of them playing a lot of minutes, and both can be very effective from the elbow. I'm so tired of seeing 6'9 guys missing layups and getting blocked... Boxing out is still a problem for the freshman. So many time they let their man get the offensive board with zero resistance or boxing out. Easily corrected but the freshman are killing us on the defensive boards right now. I think that when and if that situation is corrected, and you're right, it can be, especially when it comes mostly from freshmen, our trajectory will be up, up and away, and the team will look like a much more dangerous one (and I think it's dangerous now, but with a much smaller margin for error, as we saw with DSR having a poor shooting night).
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 10, 2014 22:48:17 GMT -5
We need to have as our main cast: Josh, White, Copeland, Smith-Rivera, and Tre Campbell. Take Devontes off the ball. Tre Campbell's tiny and overrated IMO. I would rather have LJ Peak, Trawick or Bowen in there over Tre Campbell anyway.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Dec 10, 2014 22:48:46 GMT -5
So a lot variations on the "we'll be dangerous come March" or "we're almost there" theme, much like after the Battle 4 Atlantis. Which is fitting, because to my eye we essentially played a carbon copy of the Butler game (maybe swap "guard Brennen Greene" with "get back in transition D" as your defensive oops du jour). Even if both the preceding sentiments are true, it does seem a touch unrealistic that we'd have figured everything out in two weeks. The most pressing problems--turnovers, less than opportunistic FT shooting, the lack of a third scorer in any given game--are more troublesome than we'd like to admit. So we missed another opportunity against a ranked team. Do we confront the question: okay, so what does "we're almost there" mean? I think we'll be dangerous come March. But what about, like, late January? The third scorer thing might be the closest to getting fixed. Any of LJ Peak, Paul White, or Isaac Copeland probably could play that role in very short order. They're only getting more consistent. Turnovers though...IDK, I think we really lack strong ballhandling right now, and with Josh being prone to getting the ball poked away, I think it's gonna be a constant menace. Who knows what to do about free throws--shoot, I'd take 73% from this crew if offered, but the timing of missed one and ones is vexing. Wouldn't be the first time we were slow out of the gate. The 2007 team was kinda blah until mid-January, and the 2013 team did that weird thing where you lose in Tampa, and both turned out fine. Would I be surprised if we rolled off some killer winning streak starting in like three weeks? Nah, but I also wouldn't be surprised right now if we ended up 10-8 in the Big East and the scariest 10 seed in the NCAAs. (Big East refs, btw. ) You think 10-8 conference record gets us in? I don't.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 10, 2014 22:50:15 GMT -5
Boxing out is still a problem for the freshman. So many time they let their man get the offensive board with zero resistance or boxing out. Easily corrected but the freshman are killing us on the defensive boards right now. I think that when and if that situation is corrected, and you're right, it can be, especially when it comes mostly from freshmen, our trajectory will be up, up and away, and the team will look like a much more dangerous one (and I think it's dangerous now, but with a much smaller margin for error, as we saw with DSR having a poor shooting night). All the freshmen are getting caught jumping up in the air trying to block shots while ignoring their man and not boxing out. This is leading to easy putbacks and offensive rebounds. You might be able to get away with that in high school but not at this level and that's something that is easily corrected.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 10, 2014 22:55:23 GMT -5
You know I'm as pessimistic as they come, but strangely I'm not overly upset at tonight's loss. Kansas was just ice cold when we made our runs and hit timely shots. Just wasn't our night. I kind of feel like we in years past win these big games during the season only to (you know what) the bed in post season. Based off nothing I feel like we reverse the trend this season. That's just the feeling this team gives me. Joking aside, we really can be that low seed no one will want to face come March.
We're close. Once we put it together oh boy watch out.
Oh and are we done with the DSR as the primary ball handler experiment? Only criticism tonight would have been to let him play off the ball more to get him going.
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Just Cos on Dec 10, 2014 22:55:42 GMT -5
Just finished on DVR (west coast issue). My very quick thoughts.
Hopkins made more good than bad due to his defense. No need to beat a dead horse on his offense but he was a big part of the defense.
DSR, where did your shot go? I thought you found it. Work through it and don't stop until you find it again
Jabril needs to realize that his dribble penetration only goes so far. He just seemed off and I hope it was an off night and not a matter of teams realizing his play through scouting...especially higher quality teams.
Josh had a great night and a hope his trajectory continues. Some bad plays and missed opportunities but I like this Josh.
Bottom line this loss stinks. Not happy about it. This needs to be our year and I think it will. If the freshman develop, the big men keep it up, and the elder guards play like they should I think we got a shot at going deep in March. Like third weekend deep.
I haven't felt as good about a Hoya team in a while. We have the pieces and we need to develop and to be coached. This year is on III. If we don't make this a year we are proud of I feel like it will be on him.
This team is certainly NCAA bound. I think any fears about that should be silenced.
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