MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 5, 2014 9:25:54 GMT -5
...he isn't the first big time prospect Greg W was a three-star prospect out of high school, with GU getting him over Clemson, Depaul and Maryland. Nowhere near a big-time prospect... I had a feeling there was going to be confusion by my choice of words. To me being a big time prospect is not just about being some four to five star guy coming out of high school. It also represents the kid who makes it to college under radar and you see him play and you go "whoa, this guy has all the potential in the world." In other words: he's a big time prospect. There have probably been countless guys like that in college basketball who don't end up becoming much because of attitude and character rather than anything that has to do with their physical capabilities. And of course there were guys like Len Bias and Dwayne Wade who entered college unheralded but it was soon apparent that they had tremendous capabilities. They were no less a big-time prospect simply because they failed to be viewed as blue chippers when in high school. Let me add that Greg came out of the blue to win the DC area player of the year for a reason. He was no Bias or Wade but he was really a tantalyzing prospect.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,296
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Post by prhoya on Aug 5, 2014 9:29:43 GMT -5
Greg W was a three-star prospect out of high school, with GU getting him over Clemson, Depaul and Maryland. Nowhere near a big-time prospect... I had a feeling there was going to be confusion by my choice of words. To me being a big time prospect is not just about being some four to five star guy coming out of high school. It also represents the kid who makes it to college under radar and you see him play and you go "whoa, this guy has all the potential in the world." In other words: he's a big time prospect. There have probably been countless guys like that in college basketball who don't end up becoming much because of attitude and character rather than anything that has to do with their physical capabilities. Let me add that Greg came out of the blue to win the DC area player of the year for a reason. I call those players "diamonds in the rough". JT3 and staff found a local one.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 5, 2014 9:43:59 GMT -5
Greg W was a three-star prospect out of high school, with GU getting him over Clemson, Depaul and Maryland. Nowhere near a big-time prospect... I had a feeling there was going to be confusion by my choice of words. To me being a big time prospect is not just about being some four to five star guy coming out of high school. It also represents the kid who makes it to college under radar and you see him play and you go "whoa, this guy has all the potential in the world." In other words: he's a big time prospect. There have probably been countless guys like that in college basketball who don't end up becoming much because of attitude and character rather than anything that has to do with their physical capabilities. And of course there were guys like Len Bias and Dwayne Wade who entered college unheralded but it was soon apparent that they had tremendous capabilities. They were no less a big-time prospect simply because they failed to be viewed as blue chippers when in high school. Let me add that Greg came out of the blue to win the DC area player of the year for a reason. He was no Bias or Wade but he was really a tantalyzing prospect. There's no point, people will crucify Greg for mistakes he made as a teen and failing to live up to his potential till the end of days. To anyone with eyes he had immense talent but many around here continue to let their feelings cloud their judgment. They have the right to do that and no amount of reason is going to change their minds anytime soon. Greg was on the right track, but the pressure of representing Howard County and his league as the only division 1 player in recent memory (10+ years) got to him and he came up short despite positive intentions. Opposing college coaches, opposing players, NBA scouts, his team, and more importantly himself knows what he was capable of as an athlete (particularly on defense, but also offense too) and that's all that really matters. Our thoughts about his abilities do not change the fact that he was as valuable a defensive piece as III has had at his disposal.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 5, 2014 10:04:07 GMT -5
I would not place the names above as busts inasmuch as many had productive careers elsewhere that simply didn't match the expectations. Jones, Tucker, and Macklin all went to the NBA, Tate and Causey fought through injuries. For all the grief expressed over Perry, he finished with 950 points for his career, not an insignificant number.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 5, 2014 10:33:52 GMT -5
I think the question of biggest GU recruit flop has to take into account what the player did after transferring from GU.
While Anthony Jones never materialized into a star at Georgetown, he was part of one of the most dominant teams ever assembled. And when he went to UNLV, he put up big numbers. Definitely not a flop at the collegiate level. Duance Spencer was a 15 and 8 guy and All-SEC second team for LSU after transferring.
Anthony Perry - has to be #1 given the #1 high school guard/St. Anthony's hype Milton Bell Michael Tate-Vinson Jerry Nichols Sam Jefferson Grady Mateen
These guys were just plain busts with big high school reputations. I would consider Jahidi White just a shade behind on that list too. He was pretty bad and had a big reputation coming in.
Even though Perry had 950 career points, he couldn't crack the starting lineup on some pretty terrible Hoya teams.
A more positive exercise is to come up with a list of unheralded recruits who far exceeded expectations. My starting 5 would be:
PG Charles Smith SG Sleepy Floyd SF Jeff Green PF Jerome Williams C Dikembe Mutombo/Roy Hibbert (tie)
Honorable Mention - Gene Smith, Horace Broadnax, Jon Wallace, Ya Ya Dia, Perry McDonald
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,908
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Post by Filo on Aug 5, 2014 12:55:44 GMT -5
I had a feeling there was going to be confusion by my choice of words. To me being a big time prospect is not just about being some four to five star guy coming out of high school. It also represents the kid who makes it to college under radar and you see him play and you go "whoa, this guy has all the potential in the world." In other words: he's a big time prospect. There have probably been countless guys like that in college basketball who don't end up becoming much because of attitude and character rather than anything that has to do with their physical capabilities. And of course there were guys like Len Bias and Dwayne Wade who entered college unheralded but it was soon apparent that they had tremendous capabilities. They were no less a big-time prospect simply because they failed to be viewed as blue chippers when in high school. Let me add that Greg came out of the blue to win the DC area player of the year for a reason. He was no Bias or Wade but he was really a tantalyzing prospect. There's no point, people will crucify Greg for mistakes he made as a teen and failing to live up to his potential till the end of days. To anyone with eyes he had immense talent but many around here continue to let their feelings cloud their judgment. They have the right to do that and no amount of reason is going to change their minds anytime soon. Greg was on the right track, but the pressure of representing Howard County and his league as the only division 1 player in recent memory (10+ years) got to him and he came up short despite positive intentions. Opposing college coaches, opposing players, NBA scouts, his team, and more importantly himself knows what he was capable of as an athlete (particularly on defense, but also offense too) and that's all that really matters. Our thoughts about his abilities do not change the fact that he was as valuable a defensive piece as III has had at his disposal. There has been plenty of discussion about GW that makes no reference to his early departure, other than to reasonably concede that it left an incomplete picture of his ability and contributions to the program. Seems like some also have clouded judgment on the other side of this discussion -- hellbent on dismissing any discussion that is not 100% pro-GW as tainted by vindictiveness or sour grapes.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 5, 2014 13:37:59 GMT -5
Greg Whittington was a fairly talented, athletic player who had a lot of potential. I don't think anybody on here would probably dispute that. He was a very solid defender, though his offense was either average or slightly below average.
I think the problem with focusing one-on-one defense is that's not how the game is played (whether it is the way talent scouts evaluate athletes is another story). The fact is if you had a team of the NBA's 4 best defenders out there, and threw in a mediocre defensive guard, that guard's defense would probably seem a lot better than if he was playing with 4 horrible defenders or one-on-one.
All we know is that when Whittington went out, we remained an excellent defensive team. That doesn't mean Whittington was a bad defender; it doesn't necessarily even mean that we were better without Whittington (perhaps we would have been even better than we were). Those are the only facts we have. We don't know how whether last year's team's defense would have remained elite if Whittington stayed, didn't get injured, and played, but we do know without Porter it fell apart.
That being said, I think there's a happy medium here. Otto Porter was a great player on both offense and defense. Greg Whittington was a very good defensive player. It's impossible to know how good he could have been because he only played 1.5 seasons.
My main point here is that a really excellent team with excellent defenders like Porter can mask the inadequacies of other players in ways that are not abudantly obvious. The only reason it was obvious last year is because we returned essentially the same team without Porter, and it was awful.
The real problem last year is that we had no solid SF. While Porter played a lot at SF and probably more at PF, his presence enabled a really solid lineup from front to end on the defensive end. I do suspect that if Wittington had played our defense would have been much better, though probably not elite level as it was in 2013.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Aug 6, 2014 8:00:33 GMT -5
Was Reggie Williams a big time recruit coming into the program??
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by vv83 on Aug 6, 2014 8:06:14 GMT -5
On Reggie Williams: Yes - he was considered one of the top players in his high school class
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Aug 6, 2014 8:32:10 GMT -5
On Reggie Williams: Yes - he was considered one of the top players in his high school class Reggie was USA Today HS Boys Player of the Year in 1982-83 and led the Dunbar HS Poets of Baltimore to an undefeated season and the proverbial HS National Championship with his teammate David Wingate and Coach Bob Wade in 81-82....
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Aug 6, 2014 9:07:42 GMT -5
I had a feeling there was going to be confusion by my choice of words. To me being a big time prospect is not just about being some four to five star guy coming out of high school. It also represents the kid who makes it to college under radar and you see him play and you go "whoa, this guy has all the potential in the world." In other words: he's a big time prospect. There have probably been countless guys like that in college basketball who don't end up becoming much because of attitude and character rather than anything that has to do with their physical capabilities. And of course there were guys like Len Bias and Dwayne Wade who entered college unheralded but it was soon apparent that they had tremendous capabilities. They were no less a big-time prospect simply because they failed to be viewed as blue chippers when in high school. Let me add that Greg came out of the blue to win the DC area player of the year for a reason. He was no Bias or Wade but he was really a tantalyzing prospect. There's no point, people will crucify Greg for mistakes he made as a teen and failing to live up to his potential till the end of days. To anyone with eyes he had immense talent but many around here continue to let their feelings cloud their judgment. They have the right to do that and no amount of reason is going to change their minds anytime soon. Greg was on the right track, but the pressure of representing Howard County and his league as the only division 1 player in recent memory (10+ years) got to him and he came up short despite positive intentions. Opposing college coaches, opposing players, NBA scouts, his team, and more importantly himself knows what he was capable of as an athlete (particularly on defense, but also offense too) and that's all that really matters. Our thoughts about his abilities do not change the fact that he was as valuable a defensive piece as III has had at his disposal. Most of the comments I've read in every thread were about his potential and, yes, disappointment in a young man not satisfying his commitments but also wishing him well. But feel free to spin it however suits your current argument best. The feelings about Greg's actions have almost nothing to do with his ability on the court. He's not more or less talented because he didn't show up for a final exam.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Aug 6, 2014 9:11:23 GMT -5
On Reggie Williams: Yes - he was considered one of the top players in his high school class Reggie was USA Today HS Boys Player of the Year in 1982-83 and led the Dunbar HS Poets of Baltimore to an undefeated season and the proverbial HS National Championship with his teammate David Wingate and Coach Bob Wade in 81-82.... Don't forget Mugsy Bogues and Reggie Lewis on that team.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 6, 2014 9:50:34 GMT -5
I also loved Horace Broadnax at GU. However, calling him a big surprise completely ignores the fact that he was Florida 4A player of the year at Indian River and arrived with serious credentials. He just happened to arrive with Jackson and Wingate, but he was no great unknown coming in.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 6, 2014 11:17:57 GMT -5
I also loved Horace Broadnax at GU. However, calling him a big surprise completely ignores the fact that he was Florida 4A player of the year at Indian River and arrived with serious credentials. He just happened to arrive with Jackson and Wingate, but he was no great unknown coming in. Loved Ho! Had a very good outside shot (one of the best on the team) and the best vertical on the team. Also happened to be a cool cat.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 6, 2014 11:21:30 GMT -5
B&G is dead right on Ho's hops. His cram at the end of the regional final vs Georgia Tech is proof positive
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 6, 2014 12:03:14 GMT -5
B&G is dead right on Ho's hops. His cram at the end of the regional final vs Georgia Tech is proof positive Fantastic that you remember that. I think that was the only dunk of his career. That Tech team was pretty stacked....can still remember their starting 5.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Aug 6, 2014 12:32:20 GMT -5
B&G is dead right on Ho's hops. His cram at the end of the regional final vs Georgia Tech is proof positive Fantastic that you remember that. I think that was the only dunk of his career. That Tech team was pretty stacked....can still remember their starting 5. You mean Price, Dalrymple, Ferrell, Joseph and Salley?
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 6, 2014 14:01:10 GMT -5
Fantastic that you remember that. I think that was the only dunk of his career. That Tech team was pretty stacked....can still remember their starting 5. You mean Price, Dalrymple, Ferrell, Joseph and Salley? Exactly....they, along with the starting 5 for Kentucky, St. John's and Memphis St. are the ones that people can still rattle off 30 years later.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 6, 2014 14:11:24 GMT -5
As well as Cokey McLain and those lucky bastards from Nova
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Hoya Rich
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by Hoya Rich on Aug 7, 2014 13:26:37 GMT -5
That's how you know a memorable team-- when you can name the starting 5 and sometimes even a few reserves. North Carolina '82. NC State '83. Houston '83 and '84. The Larry Johnson UNLV teams, the Fab 5 Michigan squad, etc. Doesn't happen so much nowadays; everyone is out the door in a year or two.
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