TC
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2014 9:51:07 GMT -5
Now we just need TC to stop calling consecutive losses to double digit seeds a crap shoot...some type of random fluke. Single elimination tournaments are a crap shoot. It has been statistically proven that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter, and similarly if there were a big enough body of data to go with it, there's probably no such thing as a "tournament coach". If you don't want to accept that, you can go ruminate on hegemony or whatever they teach other than math in SFS.
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royski
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Post by royski on Mar 24, 2014 9:52:17 GMT -5
Now we just need TC to stop calling consecutive losses to double digit seeds a crap shoot...some type of random fluke. Single elimination tournaments are a crap shoot. It has been statistically proven that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter, and similarly if there were a big enough body of data to go with it, there's probably no such thing as a "tournament coach". Izzo is a tournament coach.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2014 9:55:27 GMT -5
Single elimination tournaments are a crap shoot. It has been statistically proven that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter, and similarly if there were a big enough body of data to go with it, there's probably no such thing as a "tournament coach". Izzo is a tournament coach. Can we get pertinax to protest this thread, because it's pretty much an abortion of logic at this point. BTW, congrats to Vee. He deserves a better thread than this crappile.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 24, 2014 10:07:10 GMT -5
I do have some criticism of transfers such as Bennimon and V. Sanford. However, my criticism is aimed at their families for not providing the proper guidance. Neither one is going to the NBA. Now I am not saying that there is anything wrong with a degree from Towson or Dayton. However, neither is a degree from a presitgous university like Georgetown. It is a mistake that both of them will rue down the line when they start applying for jobs. Anyway, that is how I see it. I disagree! If Vee attended Georgetown due to getting an academic scholly, then I would some what agree.. He came here to play ball & if he felt as if he could get more time playing for another school, then why not leave? You didn't say this, but I don't get the angle of coach providing mins based on if a guy is local or not---that sound crazy as hell. If that's the case, wouldn't Moses start or get more mins than Nate?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 24, 2014 10:12:23 GMT -5
Congrats to 5th-year Vee!!! Count me on the "he should have gotten more minutes" group. It's clear that senior Clark had JT3's green light that year, but is it smart for a player to shoot from 25+ or more, or for his coach to allow it time and time again? JT3 could've sat Clark for Vee each time a 25+ went off, unless JT3 didn't mind it. If he didn't mind the crazy shots, then the whole "good shot" concept of our offense is B.S. You cannot have it both ways.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 24, 2014 10:15:53 GMT -5
Congrats to 5th-year Vee!!! Count me on the "he should have gotten more minutes" group. It's clear that senior Clark had JT3's green light that year, but is it smart for a player to shoot from 25+ or more, or for his coach to allow it time and time again? JT3 could've sat Clark for Vee each time a 25+ went off, unless JT3 didn't mind it. If he didn't mind the crazy shots, then the whole "good shot" concept of our offense is B.S. You cannot have it both ways. Clark was a Jr. the year Vee transferred PR..
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 24, 2014 10:18:32 GMT -5
True. Same applied for junior Clark. The distance got worse (or longer) his senior year.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 24, 2014 10:19:01 GMT -5
I do have some criticism of transfers such as Bennimon and V. Sanford. However, my criticism is aimed at their families for not providing the proper guidance. Neither one is going to the NBA. Now I am not saying that there is anything wrong with a degree from Towson or Dayton. However, neither is a degree from a presitgous university like Georgetown. It is a mistake that both of them will rue down the line when they start applying for jobs. Anyway, that is how I see it. I disagree! If Vee attended Georgetown due to getting an academic scholly, then I would some what agree.. He came here to play ball & if he felt as if he could get more time playing for another school, then why not leave? I thought Vee (and almost every basketball player) go to college to get a degree AND play basketball, not just play basketball. And now Vee will likely finish playing basketball and graduate with a degree from Dayton rather than Georgetown. Not sure many people would rather enter the non-basketball job market with a degree from Dayton rather than a degree from Georgetown.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Mar 24, 2014 10:24:10 GMT -5
I disagree! If Vee attended Georgetown due to getting an academic scholly, then I would some what agree.. He came here to play ball & if he felt as if he could get more time playing for another school, then why not leave? I thought Vee (and almost every basketball player) go to college to get a degree AND play basketball, not just play basketball. And now Vee will likely finish playing basketball and graduate with a degree from Dayton rather than Georgetown. Not sure many people would rather enter the non-basketball job market with a degree from Dayton rather than a degree from Georgetown. I agree if you are talking about the student (non-ball player); but most ball players are trying to get into the various schools to play their sport as a first option.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 24, 2014 10:28:39 GMT -5
Actually, a degree from Dayton is pretty good, depending on the major.
It's comical to me that all the armchair coaches here are also fully capable of deciding without knowing the student athlete personally what is the best choice for him.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 24, 2014 11:05:33 GMT -5
I remember watching Roger Federer from 2005-2007 thinking "How lucky is this guy? He keeps winning these single elimination crapshoots."
No actually I think he had a game with high performance and low variability. You can build a team like that. There's a reason 14 of the Sweet 16 are in the Kenpom top 21. One of the other two beat a team down a starter (Kansas). Vee and Dayton are truly an outlier.
What's also interesting to note is the two top 20 teams bounced in the first round had something in common. One was the worst defensive team in the Kenpom top 20(Duke - 115) and the other the worst offensive team (VCU - 109). If you truly think this too is random, check your own office pool bracket and tell me how far you have those two teams going.
There are no tournament coaches but coaches build tournament teams. It's been quite a while since we've been good at both offense and defense. In the post-Roy era the closest we've come is 2012 when we were top 40 in both. Wait, 2012...wasn't that the year we won our only tournament game in six years and lost by a basket to a major conference team in the second round for our best tournament performance over that stretch? Wow, that's random.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 24, 2014 11:16:33 GMT -5
Perhaps Vee can take over Marquette and bring in Roger Federer as an assistant. That would solve all of Hoyatalk's, nay, the world's, ills.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 24, 2014 11:36:07 GMT -5
I do not think anybody is literally saying the tournament is all luck. Clearly, the better your offense and defense, the better your odds of winning. The reason why people say it's a crapshoot is because even if you have one of the best offenses and defenses in the nation, there is still a reasonable chance you are going to lose anyway. It is probably well under 50% but it can happen to anybody on any day.
That's why I say the key for us is to keep getting great Georgetown teams into the NCAA tournament. If we do that, we will eventually win.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 24, 2014 11:55:21 GMT -5
I remember watching Roger Federer from 2005-2007 thinking "How lucky is this guy? He keeps winning these single elimination crapshoots." No actually I think he had a game with high performance and low variability. You can build a team like that. There's a reason 14 of the Sweet 16 are in the Kenpom top 21. One of the other two beat a team down a starter (Kansas). Vee and Dayton are truly an outlier. What's also interesting to note is the two top 20 teams bounced in the first round had something in common. One was the worst defensive team in the Kenpom top 20(Duke - 115) and the other the worst offensive team (VCU - 109). If you truly think this too is random, check your own office pool bracket and tell me how far you have those two teams going. There are no tournament coaches but coaches build tournament teams. It's been quite a while since we've been good at both offense and defense. In the post-Roy era the closest we've come is 2012 when we were top 40 in both. Wait, 2012...wasn't that the year we won our only tournament game in six years and lost by a basket to a major conference team in the second round for our best tournament performance over that stretch? Wow, that's random. No, Federer was an extremely high performer. It's like Florida in 2006-07 or Kentucky that one year. Look at tennis normally -- the #1 player isn't winning every time. Neither was Tiger in golf, even when he was dominant. Some sports, like baseball, have high variability. Some, like NBA basketball, don't. College basketball wouldn't if it was best of 7, but it's not. That's not to say there's nothing the team couldn't do. But it is a reality. You are right that having a team with good offense and good defense is one good way. I agree there. But it's not like the staff went out trying to have an unbalanced team.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 24, 2014 12:22:42 GMT -5
I remember watching Roger Federer from 2005-2007 thinking "How lucky is this guy? He keeps winning these single elimination crapshoots." No actually I think he had a game with high performance and low variability. You can build a team like that. There's a reason 14 of the Sweet 16 are in the Kenpom top 21. One of the other two beat a team down a starter (Kansas). Vee and Dayton are truly an outlier. What's also interesting to note is the two top 20 teams bounced in the first round had something in common. One was the worst defensive team in the Kenpom top 20(Duke - 115) and the other the worst offensive team (VCU - 109). If you truly think this too is random, check your own office pool bracket and tell me how far you have those two teams going. There are no tournament coaches but coaches build tournament teams. It's been quite a while since we've been good at both offense and defense. In the post-Roy era the closest we've come is 2012 when we were top 40 in both. Wait, 2012...wasn't that the year we won our only tournament game in six years and lost by a basket to a major conference team in the second round for our best tournament performance over that stretch? Wow, that's random. No, Federer was an extremely high performer. It's like Florida in 2006-07 or Kentucky that one year. Look at tennis normally -- the #1 player isn't winning every time. Neither was Tiger in golf, even when he was dominant. Some sports, like baseball, have high variability. Some, like NBA basketball, don't. College basketball wouldn't if it was best of 7, but it's not. That's not to say there's nothing the team couldn't do. But it is a reality. You are right that having a team with good offense and good defense is one good way. I agree there. But it's not like the staff went out trying to have an unbalanced team. Trey Mourning has a photo with Federer on his Instagram, so if necessary, we can ask Trey to make the introduction to our coaching staff?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 24, 2014 12:51:52 GMT -5
I remember watching Roger Federer from 2005-2007 thinking "How lucky is this guy? He keeps winning these single elimination crapshoots." No actually I think he had a game with high performance and low variability. You can build a team like that. There's a reason 14 of the Sweet 16 are in the Kenpom top 21. One of the other two beat a team down a starter (Kansas). Vee and Dayton are truly an outlier. What's also interesting to note is the two top 20 teams bounced in the first round had something in common. One was the worst defensive team in the Kenpom top 20(Duke - 115) and the other the worst offensive team (VCU - 109). If you truly think this too is random, check your own office pool bracket and tell me how far you have those two teams going. There are no tournament coaches but coaches build tournament teams. It's been quite a while since we've been good at both offense and defense. In the post-Roy era the closest we've come is 2012 when we were top 40 in both. Wait, 2012...wasn't that the year we won our only tournament game in six years and lost by a basket to a major conference team in the second round for our best tournament performance over that stretch? Wow, that's random. No, Federer was an extremely high performer. It's like Florida in 2006-07 or Kentucky that one year. Look at tennis normally -- the #1 player isn't winning every time. Neither was Tiger in golf, even when he was dominant. Some sports, like baseball, have high variability. Some, like NBA basketball, don't. College basketball wouldn't if it was best of 7, but it's not. That's not to say there's nothing the team couldn't do. But it is a reality. You are right that having a team with good offense and good defense is one good way. I agree there. But it's not like the staff went out trying to have an unbalanced team. But in tennis normally the #1 losing in the first two rounds in consecutive tournaments without reason is very rare. In 5 straight tournaments? Almost impossible. Losing at the margin to other top players can always happen, but losing to a journeymen ranked #85, not very often. Of course the staff doesn't want unbalanced teams. It's just creating them. So they have to find that mix that can minimize the holes teams can exploit. That is their job after all. And having glaring exploitable weaknesses is a good way to get "unlucky" to inferior opponents.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 24, 2014 16:21:07 GMT -5
Perhaps Vee can take over Marquette and bring in Roger Federer as an assistant. That would solve all of Hoyatalk's, nay, the world's, ills. But what do we do with TJI???
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 24, 2014 17:04:21 GMT -5
I think that as head coach he runs the practices, I think that he coaches the games, I also think that he is in charge of his staff. I think his staff is does the recruiting.... So I do think the head coach has a lot to do with teams performance. I am not calling for JT3 to be fired let me make that very clear. I do think that he better get this back on track or he should be fired. Know one deserves a lifetime contract in life. I think JT3 is a good coach. Lets just get that straight. We won the Big East last year and earned a number 2 seed. This year was a disappointment - one year. So he should be fired if he does not get it "back on track"?! Give me a break. When you hammer him because a sub at Georgetown transferred to become a sub at an A10 school, your agenda becomes clear. I wish that, just once, the anti-3 detractors would at least have the cojones to reveal their true colors instead of trying to hide behind the trite "I do think he is a good coach" or "I am usually a fan of our coach" drivel. You don't like our coach. You want him gone. Just say it. Trust me, I have no need to hide. I do like JT3 as a coach, again I don't like 1 aspect of his coaching. Most times, he's brilliant. Yes, it was a bad year, but remember some of the same statements have been made since 2004. We'll see - next year should be a 360 in my opinion.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Mar 24, 2014 17:28:02 GMT -5
How about a 180 instead?
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 24, 2014 17:36:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if purplefilms really meant 360.
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