|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 23, 2014 18:24:03 GMT -5
There's a difference between having a short rotation and somebody sitting on the bench because more talented players were ahead of him. Somebody suggested that Jason Clark's 30 mpg was too much. Okay, let's say Vee got those 5 minutes. Would he have stayed? Nobody knows, but I am guessing no. Sure, you can make an argument that Vee Sanford was talented enough to play a little more, but nobody in their right mind could say that he should have gotten substantial minutes ahead of the other talent.
Also, in 2010-2011 (Vee's sophomore season), the team was very good for most of the season. They only lost one OOC game narrowly. They lost eight games in-conference, but three were after Wright hurt his wrist. Of the eight in-conference losses, five were by more than 7, and thus Vee Sanford would have been unlikely to change that outcome. Also, the last two losses were so big that I doubt he would have changed the outcome (Connecticut loss by 17 in the BET, and 18 point loss to VCU).
I hate pointing this out because I am not criticizing Vee Sanford in any way. I always liked him, and even though he should probably get a little more time when he was on the team. But, to say that he would have significantly impacted our outcomes that year - especially the post-season - is disingenuous.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 18:24:22 GMT -5
Mano y mano, Clark was not a better player than Vee; Clark was a better PERSON for the Hoyas than Vee at the time - or, at least JTIII saw it that way. Also, why not play a 3 guard lineup? if you've got 3 good guards? Or at least more minutes. Maybe i wouldn't say this if JTIII didn't consistently do this with players such as Hayes and Domingo. Talent is on the bench. What!!!!!!! Lol this is absurd I should clarify. At the time, Clark was a JTIII guy. Vee was a late "need"; kind of an afterthought. JTIII has guys he likes, and then guys who have to work double hard to be one of his guys it seems. Shall we name a few?
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 23, 2014 18:30:53 GMT -5
Jason Clark in 2011 was a better player than Vee Samford in 2014. Jason Clark in 2012 was a MUCH better player than Vee Samford in 2014. This is a ridiculous post. Clark was a starter and team leader on a 3-seeded team. Vee comes off the bench for an 11-seed, as a fifth year senior. read again what i said. you understood incorrectly. ok let me clarify. Clark was better at the time as far as we knew because he got playing time. But in my humble opinion, VS is/was or just as good as Clark, he just didn't play. That's my opinion. As far as your perspective and probably half the folks on the board, my original post was "ridiculous" Even though Sanford benefited from having an extra developmental year, I think it's hard to say he was a better player than Clark. He was still a good player, though. Clark (Junior Season): 107.4 O rating, 57.2 eFG%, 11.2 defensive rebounding, 34.7% on threes, 77% FTs. Clark (Senior Season): 108.2 O rating, 54.8 eFG%, 10.9 defensive rebounding, 32.2% on threes, 75% FTs. Sanford (4th year Junior Season): 105.9 O rating, 51.5 eFG%, 9.8 defensive rebounding, 33.3% on threes, 82.1% FTs. Sanford (4th year Senior Season): 103.6 O rating, 49.1 eFG%, 12.3 defensive rebounding, 30.2% on threes, 69.3% FTs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 18:33:10 GMT -5
He’s a 5th year Senior… He would not have been a 5th year Senior here… This topic is just odd It's not about this season Yaboy, we all know he would graduated last season.. The discussion is would he have helped in his last 2 seasons at G'town and whether or not JT3's short rotation played a role in him leaving.. But it took you guys 5 years to notice? Nobody would have even brought up dood if it wasn’t for his play in his 5th year. When we lost to NC State nobody said “If only Vee didn’t transfer, same with last year. Think guys should just be happy he found himself a nice fit and is playing well but this mess is over the top imo. He would have never been more than a bench guy here. Is that what Vee wanted?? Prob not so he bounced and found what he was looking for at Dayton. Good for him! I’m not going to bash a coach for not playing a kid big minutes when he’s behind 3 ALL BE guys. His best season at a MId Major was not equal to the second best season averages by any of those guys playing in the BE and they were upperclassmen sans Clark
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 23, 2014 18:36:47 GMT -5
What!!!!!!! Lol this is absurd I should clarify. At the time, Clark was a JTIII guy. Vee was a late "need"; kind of an afterthought. JTIII has guys he likes, and then guys who have to work double hard to be one of his guys it seems. Shall we name a few? III wants to win. Who he plays has nothing to do with guys he "likes". He plays the people who he feels give us the best chance to win. When will you stop posting such nonsense? Is your basketball knowledge that limited? I'm beginning to suspect you really are just a troll.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 18:38:56 GMT -5
dude, i'm not a troll; i never call fellow GU fans trolls. I do know basketball. It's my opinion, which is cool.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 18:40:30 GMT -5
read again what i said. you understood incorrectly. ok let me clarify. Clark was better at the time as far as we knew because he got playing time. But in my humble opinion, VS is/was or just as good as Clark, he just didn't play. That's my opinion. As far as your perspective and probably half the folks on the board, my original post was "ridiculous" Even though Sanford benefited from having an extra developmental year, I think it's hard to say he was a better player than Clark. He was still a good player, though. Clark (Junior Season): 107.4 O rating, 57.2 eFG%, 11.2 defensive rebounding, 34.7% on threes, 77% FTs. Clark (Senior Season): 108.2 O rating, 54.8 eFG%, 10.9 defensive rebounding, 32.2% on threes, 75% FTs. Sanford (4th year Junior Season): 105.9 O rating, 51.5 eFG%, 9.8 defensive rebounding, 33.3% on threes, 82.1% FTs. Sanford (4th year Senior Season): 103.6 O rating, 49.1 eFG%, 12.3 defensive rebounding, 30.2% on threes, 69.3% FTs. And he didn’t have to do it in the BE….
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 18:41:34 GMT -5
It's not about this season Yaboy, we all know he would graduated last season.. The discussion is would he have helped in his last 2 seasons at G'town and whether or not JT3's short rotation played a role in him leaving.. But it took you guys 5 years to notice? Nobody would have even brought up dood if it wasn’t for his play in his 5th year. When we lost to NC State nobody said “If only Vee didn’t transfer, same with last year. Think guys should just be happy he found himself a nice fit and is playing well but this mess is over the top imo. He would have never been more than a bench guy here. Is that what Vee wanted?? Prob not so he bounced and found what he was looking for at Dayton. Good for him! I’m not going to bash a coach for not playing a kid big minutes when he’s behind 3 ALL BE guys. His best season at a MId Major was not equal to the second best season averages by any of those guys playing in the BE and they were upperclassmen sans Clark Not true. Folks was saying he played well last year and some still wished he was a part of the team. I would have liked him to finish his career a Hoya. But this tourney hasn't swayed me or upset me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 18:43:51 GMT -5
But it took you guys 5 years to notice? Nobody would have even brought up dood if it wasn’t for his play in his 5th year. When we lost to NC State nobody said “If only Vee didn’t transfer, same with last year. Think guys should just be happy he found himself a nice fit and is playing well but this mess is over the top imo. He would have never been more than a bench guy here. Is that what Vee wanted?? Prob not so he bounced and found what he was looking for at Dayton. Good for him! I’m not going to bash a coach for not playing a kid big minutes when he’s behind 3 ALL BE guys. His best season at a MId Major was not equal to the second best season averages by any of those guys playing in the BE and they were upperclassmen sans Clark Not true. Folks was saying he played well last year and some still wished he was a part of the team. I would have liked him to finish his career a Hoya. But this tourney hasn't swayed me or upset me. Lol ok… it is true he would have only been a bench guy here. Doesn’t really matter what you wanted, Is that what Vee Wanted?
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 18:45:18 GMT -5
I should clarify. At the time, Clark was a JTIII guy. Vee was a late "need"; kind of an afterthought. JTIII has guys he likes, and then guys who have to work double hard to be one of his guys it seems. Shall we name a few? III wants to win. Who he plays has nothing to do with guys he "likes". He plays the people who he feels give us the best chance to win. When will you stop posting such nonsense? Is your basketball knowledge that limited? I'm beginning to suspect you really are just a troll. ok.... of course, all coaches PLAY TO WIN, but sometimes a coaches plan isn't necessarily correct. Yes, I am not the coach and yes in theory, guys like Vee and others shouldn't have played if JTIII wanted to win...but theory is what has gotten this team bounced in tourneys of late.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 18:47:40 GMT -5
Not true. Folks was saying he played well last year and some still wished he was a part of the team. I would have liked him to finish his career a Hoya. But this tourney hasn't swayed me or upset me. \ Lol ok… it is true he would have only been a bench guy here. Doesn’t really matter what you wanted, Is that what Vee Wanted? of course i know that as should every body else know that what's important is what Vee wanted. Now folks on here are insulting folks intelligence. Got it. I'm a troll. Got it. *wink
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 18:48:33 GMT -5
III wants to win. Who he plays has nothing to do with guys he "likes". He plays the people who he feels give us the best chance to win. When will you stop posting such nonsense? Is your basketball knowledge that limited? I'm beginning to suspect you really are just a troll. ok.... of course, all coaches PLAY TO WIN, but sometimes a coaches plan isn't necessarily correct. Yes, I am not the coach and yes in theory, guys like Vee and others shouldn't have played if JTIII wanted to win...but theory is what has gotten this team bounced in tourneys of late. No failing to score more than the other team has gotten us bounced, not Vee Sanford transferring…
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 18:52:56 GMT -5
\ Lol ok… it is true he would have only been a bench guy here. Doesn’t really matter what you wanted, Is that what Vee Wanted? of course i know that as should every body else know that what's important is what Vee wanted. Now folks on here are insulting folks intelligence. Got it. I'm a troll. Got it. *wink Are you playing some sort of victim role here? I never called you a troll or insulted your intelligence Purple… Not sure where that’s coming from.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Mar 23, 2014 18:55:24 GMT -5
I think Vee should have gotten more time, and he's the only transfer that made sense that I really think should have been avoided (Macklin's transfer, on the other hand, made no sense unless there were academic issues -- and I never heard of any). That said, anyone thinking fifth year Vee Sanford is not sustantially better than sophomore Vee Sanford is more than a little crazy. Vee was, at best, the 4th best guard on that roster. Future NBA player Hollis Thompson was splitting time between the 4 and the 3, trying to keep us from playing small all the time. Vee wasn't a PG, so Markel got some extra time. So, yeah, Vee could have gotten more time. But there's a lot of revisionist history here (like Purple asking why not play a 3 guard lineup. Umm, we did, for much of the game. And everyone hated it because our defense sucked.) cool. i was responding to someone who said it would've been stupid to play a 3 guard lineup. that lineup can work. in fact, GU has gotten beat multiple times by 3 guard lineups. Vee also is taller and a better defensive player than Freeman or Clark...definitely would have helped on defensive rebounds. Just look at what VCU and NC State did to us in the NCAA tournament...both of those teams got to the rim at will with the dribble drive penetration.. Are people going to say Vee Sanford could not have helped us win those games?? NC State was a virtual coin flip game...1 or 2 stops was all we needed to get to the Sweet 16 in 2012.
|
|
bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
|
Post by bmartin on Mar 23, 2014 18:58:27 GMT -5
Vee did the right thing by leaving. He was a good player but he was behind better players here. It really comes down to who fits with Wright and Freeman. We needed to pair them with a low-usage player who could help handle the ball and play good defense. That guy was Jason Clark, not Vee Sanford. Starks was a better back-up point guard. Vee was not a point guard. Hollis at the three with Freeman at the two was our best lineup whenever we had to play bigger with Lubick or Benimon at the 4. That really did not leave Vee many minutes. He was at his best playing with the ball in his hands but our ball belonged to Chris Wright and Austin Freeman.
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Mar 23, 2014 18:58:29 GMT -5
It's not odd Your seeing the potential that we all saw coming to fruition on the biggest stage. You would hope that the coach would have seen and harnessed this potential. I'm very happy for vee I just think its a knock on 3. This program better finds its edge. too complacent. You think that everything is a knock on 3, so . . . Vee would have had a few more minutes as a junior, and even more as a senior last year. He left because he wanted a better chance to start. He went to an A10 school and could not start there. He made the best of the situation, and had a moment Thursday he will never forget. Fantastic for him. Enough of this silliness. I think that as head coach he runs the practices, I think that he coaches the games, I also think that he is in charge of his staff. I think his staff is does the recruiting.... So I do think the head coach has a lot to do with teams performance. I am not calling for JT3 to be fired let me make that very clear. I do think that he better get this back on track or he should be fired. Know one deserves a lifetime contract in life. I think JT3 is a good coach. Lets just get that straight.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 19:01:26 GMT -5
of course i know that as should every body else know that what's important is what Vee wanted. Now folks on here are insulting folks intelligence. Got it. I'm a troll. Got it. *wink Are you playing some sort of victim role here? I never called you a troll or insulted your intelligence Purple… Not sure where that’s coming from. nope, not at all dude. not directed at you, two folks referred to me as a troll, and folks on here is insulting peoples intel. it's all good.
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Mar 23, 2014 19:01:50 GMT -5
It's not odd Your seeing the potential that we all saw coming to fruition on the biggest stage. You would hope that the coach would have seen and harnessed this potential. I'm very happy for vee I just think its a knock on 3. This program better finds its edge. too complacent. Should have stopped there…. No I should not have. Any time there's any criticism of the program or 3 everyone goes crazy. Wake up. I have every right to say that We all know that Vee had "something" and 3 was too stubborn to give him game minutes when a starter was struggling. I call it the way I see it.
|
|
|
Post by flyoverhoya on Mar 23, 2014 19:03:00 GMT -5
cool. i was responding to someone who said it would've been stupid to play a 3 guard lineup. that lineup can work. in fact, GU has gotten beat multiple times by 3 guard lineups. Vee also is taller and a better defensive player than Freeman or Clark...definitely would have helped on defensive rebounds. Just look at what VCU and NC State did to us in the NCAA tournament...both of those teams got to the rim at will with the dribble drive penetration.. Are people going to say Vee Sanford could not have helped us win those games?? NC State was a virtual coin flip game...1 or 2 stops was all we needed to get to the Sweet 16 in 2012. I'll grant you he's taller than Clark. Better defender, however? Not buying that.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 23, 2014 19:07:56 GMT -5
couldn't agree more richfame. who cares if he's not a superstar for Dayton right now. that's not the point. and i'm a big 3 fan, just not in 1 area of his coaching. on the same note, no way any of the incoming freshman should get 1 or 2 minutes a game and only during weak OOC games. All of those guys can play. We'll see what happens.
|
|