MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 24, 2013 22:54:30 GMT -5
I can't believe we're actually complaining we got a hot team in the tourney. It's the NCAA tournament. Here's who the three seeds got Harvard, Davidson, Northwestern St., Valparaiso Three of those programs had pulled off big tourney upsets before. Guess who hadn't? Yep, the one who won. So giving us a low major making their first appearance wasn't a screw job. We screwed ourselves. I don't think anyone thinks it was a screw job. FGCU obviously earned a 15 seed during the season. It doesn't change the fact that at their best( the way they are playing now) they are clearly one of the best 16 teams in this tourney. Usually you get to avoid those teams as a 2 seed until at least the second weekend. VCU probably shouldn't have made the stupid tournament in 2011. Yet they were one of the best teams tournament that year. There is a reason no other 15 seed has made sweet sixteen before and it's because they have never been as good as FGCU. Or it could be that no other 15 seed makes it to the Sweet 16 because the #2 seeds generally take care of business. I believe only six #15s have won before Friday so that's a small sampling to make any true determination about why they don't move on to the Sweet 16. But...isn't that still an excuse nonetheless?
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Mar 24, 2013 22:54:30 GMT -5
Well, their body of work for the entire regular season suggests that they are a double digit seed. However, they are on quite the run. 7 straight victories, won 17 of 21. That said, this is a team that lost to Mercer twice, Maine, East Tennessee State, Lipscomb twice and Stetson. Credit to FGCU for making the most of their opportunity. They are talented and athletic but also beatable. Unfortunately, we were unable to do so. I dunno they destroyed Miami. That alone should bump them up to a higher seed IMO. They also lost to Lipscomb (12-18) twice, Stetson (15-16), East Tennessee State (10-22), St. John's by 11, Duke by 21, VCU by 23 and didn't win the regular season championship in the Atlantic Sun conference. There was a reason they were a 15 seed. Seeing FGCU beat a bad SDSU team in no way makes me feel better about Georgetown's no-show on Friday. Not one bit whatsoever.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 24, 2013 22:55:59 GMT -5
This is Matt Millen/Doris Burke-quality analysis, based on nothing. Yes, there's no selection bias in the counterargument at all. FGCU has to be the greatest 15 seed of all time because they won two games. Or, very possibly, there have been other equally good 15 seeds that would've won a game against a 7 seed, except they never got the chance because the 2 seed won the game they were supposed to. Hell, maybe FGCU is the greatest 15 seed of all time. Maybe they should've been a 12. But shouldn't we, as a 2 seed, be able to go out and beat a 12 seed? Thank you. I see you beat me to the punch.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 24, 2013 23:07:12 GMT -5
Find me one 15 seed that has beaten 3 teams that have been ranked during the season, 2 of which were top five teams at various points and you might have a point that there have been other equally good 15 seeds. Not just beat, but blew out. All three of them. The fact is we choked yesterday. No one is disputing that. However, I certainly don't think if we had to play them again tomorrow that we would win. They aren't an average 15 seed and we seem to have a pattern of drawing teams that are much better than their seed, deserved or not. I think that's all anyone is saying. This great #15 seed also lost to a bunch of crappy teams this season too. Maybe the players on those bad squads are also better than Georgetown's. Come on. If the Hoyas after playing the team once still could not beat FGCU then that's a sad indictment. But that's my opinion. Let's move past that. Let me play devil's advocate and say that FGCU is really a #7 seed or a #6. Why can't the Hoyas beat them anyway? If you are a #2 seed and have a goal to make it to the Final Four you are going to have to beat such opponents in the first place. So if you have to start it off by beating such a team, an underseeded opponent, in the first round so be it. Just do it.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 24, 2013 23:11:57 GMT -5
I think this is the point. We aren't losing to bad teams. Every team that makes it in the NCAA tourney, with the exception of those 10 win squads who get hot for three days in a conference tourney, is a good team. There are rarely bad teams in the field and thus you can't take anyone for granted and must be prepared to go all out and do anything it takes to guarantee a win. You gotta go out there thinking you are about to play the Miami Heat! If any program should know this by now you would think it would be Georgetown given its recent history. Obviously that wasn't the case based upon Friday's showing.
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Post by nashvillehoyas on Mar 24, 2013 23:12:16 GMT -5
FGCU was a #15 for a reason. Could have been a #16 seed rather than Southern U. Can't understand a team that thought they should be a #1 seed complaining about a #16, #15 or even a #10 seed..... Pac 12 teams did not get seeded fairly they claim, but went out proved it..... Just Man Up Hoyas!!!!
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 24, 2013 23:13:21 GMT -5
Geez. You keeping record of that stuff?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 24, 2013 23:51:36 GMT -5
Find me one 15 seed that has beaten 3 teams that have been ranked during the season, 2 of which were top five teams at various points and you might have a point that there have been other equally good 15 seeds. Not just beat, but blew out. All three of them. The fact is we choked yesterday. No one is disputing that. However, I certainly don't think if we had to play them again tomorrow that we would win. They aren't an average 15 seed and we seem to have a pattern of drawing teams that are much better than their seed, deserved or not. I think that's all anyone is saying. This great #15 seed also lost to a bunch of crappy teams this season too. Maybe the players on those bad squads are also better than Georgetown's. Come on. If the Hoyas after playing the team once still could not beat FGCU then that's a sad indictment. But that's my opinion. Let's move past that. Let me play devil's advocate and say that FGCU is really a #7 seed or a #6. Why can't the Hoyas beat them anyway? If you are a #2 seed and have a goal to make it to the Final Four you are going to have to beat such opponents in the first place. So if you have to start it off by beating such a team, an underseeded opponent, in the first round so be it. Just do it. It's not just about this year that people are complaining about! You seem to be missing that part of the equation. It's frustrating as annoying because every year we are getting these teams playing way over their heads in multiple games, not just against us. And we aren't complaining in a "how can we expect to win under these circumstances manner" that you and others seem to be interpreting. We are complaining in a " we already suck in the first round why can't we catch a break an avoid teams capable of making a run to the final four" type of way. Again no one is excusing the loss and I have stated multiple times that we choked. Similar to if you didn't study well for a history final and skipped the whole section on WWI and every question on the test related back to WWI. It's still your fault and inexcusable but you'd thnk eventually you'll get something about the revolutionary war. I guess Belmont las year was our revolutionary war question.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 24, 2013 23:52:34 GMT -5
Florida gulf coast is damn good. hope they "upset" a few more teams like maybe four more you never know. go hoyas
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 2:12:41 GMT -5
No, we had that game if Starks doesn’t get that second….
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Mar 25, 2013 3:12:41 GMT -5
this thread is a joke
this was a team that was rated number four in the country after beating syracuse at carrier dome, went into overtime and nearly beat indiana that was number one throughout most of the season, and also beat lousville whos the favorite to win the tournament.
FGFU might be better than iona or other 15 seeds, but to say that some of us should feel better bc they beat sandiego state which was not even ranked top25 through most of the season is just...
yes ranking might not be everything and misleading to certain extent, but the teams that we beat or narrowly beat are dominating and i guarantee that one of the teams that we have beaten will make it to final four and might even win a championship.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Mar 25, 2013 3:18:22 GMT -5
Nothing changes what happened on Friday night.
That being said, I was hoping FGCU would at least put up a fight tonight rather than just get blown out like you expect out of a 15 seed.
I didn't watch the game - it still hurts too much - but it helped a bit that they didn't get embarrassed.
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Post by oakhead on Mar 25, 2013 4:21:33 GMT -5
Fact is, this Hoya team is still better than 60 of the teams in the tourney. I haven't seen a 3 or 4 seed that we wouldn't have whupped. It is all about matchups and we had some bad bad luck getting yet another extraordinarily athletic unheard of team on a hot streak. Thing is deeper they go, tighter they will get and will get beaten easily by a Kansas. I know, I know I am grasping at straws. I guess after getting ambushed 4 or 5 times in sucession, we should be more prepared, Coach
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 25, 2013 6:39:25 GMT -5
Really? My goodness your entire argument is one giant... Oh god forget it. Do you know what strawman means? Yes, very sure that you don't, however.
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71hoya
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Post by 71hoya on Mar 25, 2013 6:40:47 GMT -5
No, I don't feel a little better. In fact, I feel worse. I look back at this season and remember all of the ugly Georgetown games (wins and loses) I watched. Tenn, Pit,Duquesne, Liberty, Towson, Marquette, South Flordia, Rutgers, Villanova etc. These were all just plain ugly basketball games. Yes, we may have won but they were ugly wins. When JT3 first got here, his offense was fun to watch when it clicked. That offense clearly does not work any more. In fact FGCU had more cuts and back doors than we did. Everybody knows what we do and they all know howto stop it. Watching FGCU and LaSalle play a wide open game is just fun to watch. Yes they don't play as disciplined as we do or as slow and deliberate as we do but they sure are fun to watch.
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Post by bigelephant on Mar 25, 2013 6:49:58 GMT -5
Yes - when our 3's aren't going in, people can give our offense trouble. But I think that can be said about a whole lot of offenses and teams. Opposing coaches will always try to beat you by figuring out your offense whatever one you use. This is not an astounding fact! Our offense is soooooooo different that the one III used in his first year. Keeping a jump ahead while the oppenents try to figure it out.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 25, 2013 7:21:07 GMT -5
No, I don't feel a little better. In fact, I feel worse. I look back at this season and remember all of the ugly Georgetown games (wins and loses) I watched. Tenn, Pit,Duquesne, Liberty, Towson, Marquette, South Flordia, Rutgers, Villanova etc. These were all just plain ugly basketball games. Yes, we may have won but they were ugly wins. When JT3 first got here, his offense was fun to watch when it clicked. That offense clearly does not work any more. In fact FGCU had more cuts and back doors than we did. Everybody knows what we do and they all know howto stop it. Watching FGCU and LaSalle play a wide open game is just fun to watch. Yes they don't play as disciplined as we do or as slow and deliberate as we do but they sure are fun to watch. Agree with much of this. The warning signs were there all year, particularly in the preconference schedule. However, perhaps the problem is that we all overvalued this team. Maybe instead of a failure, the offensive system actually worked this year to keep us in games we would have otherwise lost. Certainly the defense accomplished that feat. Don't get me wrong--I believe the system will eventually be JT III's downfall or a ticket to Princeton like mediocrity--strong records year after year with no real shot at winning anything in the post-season. Yet given the way JT III uses a short bench, given the loss of Whittington and given the very limited number of scoring options, perhaps the system kept us in many games we would otherwise have been run out of.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 25, 2013 7:38:51 GMT -5
This team did not have a Roy Hibbert, or Greg Monroe, or Henry Sims, or even a Julian Vaughn. We had no advantage over anyone inside. Teams did not have to double the post ever so the offense depended on three players making outside shots or individual plays driving or pulling up.
For a remarkable number of games this offense was good enough because our defense made opponents play half court and even good teams frequently dribbled themselves into corners or forced bad shots. Watch how these teams score on other good teams and marvel at how consistently we stopped them.
In the tournament your star players have to be on. We needed more from Otto and DSR Friday just like we needed more from Clark against NC State and more from Freeman in every NCAA game he played.
To the extent there is a pattern to FGCU, Ohio, and VCU it is that our defense was beaten by 3-guard small ball. We gave up big runs. Those teams had quick point guards that were hard to stay in front of and other guys who made jump shots and finished at the rim when we switched or helped.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 25, 2013 8:10:16 GMT -5
VCU is fun to watch too. They lost by 25. I'd rather play a style that enables us to win 15 big east games and lose only 7 games all year than be fun to watch so that we can win one game against an athletic team in the tourney.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 25, 2013 8:10:43 GMT -5
When Duke, UConn, UNC, Syracuse, Indiana, Kentucky, etc come across a mid major team that wants to push the pace during the NCAA tourney the eyes of the players of those elite teams probably widen as they think: Oh, that's how you wanna do this! Let's go. When the Hoyas come across such up-tempo mid majors the body language of our players seem to suggest they are thinking : please, don't run on us. It isn't fair !
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