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Post by sojerzyhoya on Dec 13, 2012 17:51:03 GMT -5
Under section 21.01 of the Big East bylaws, "The Conference may be dissolved upon a vote of at least two-thirds of all Directors." So the 7 non-football schools clearly have the votes to dissolve the league, since there are only 3 football schools (Cinci, UConn, and USF) which are currently members.
This section goes on to state:"In the event of dissolution of the Conference, the Board, by a vote of a majority of all Directors present and eligible to vote, shall determine the basis for liquidation of Conference assets, if any, and the allocation, following the satisfaction of all Conference obligations, of net assets, as provided for in the Articles." So it seems that the 7 can also control how the league's remaining assets are divided up. Presumably this would include the name, Big East, which is an asset of the conference.
So it seems that the existing conference could be dissolved, and a new conference called Big East could be created if the assets were so divided.
Interesting.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 13, 2012 17:52:19 GMT -5
Holy Cross HAD a high level football program and was forced to downgrade it when it passed on the Big East and labored as a forgotten program--it was a I-A program as late as 1986. Fairfield was in the woebegone MAAC for six years. No comparison. Right, so they chose not to try and be a high major school. Aligning ourselves with the other basketball only schools that are committed to fielding winning basketball isn't exactly the same as passing on the Big East. (also, the Big East wasn't going to save Holy Cross in football if they only lasted until 1986, since there wasn't Big East football until 1992).
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Dec 13, 2012 17:52:42 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. DFW, I meaningfully respect what you do for GTOWN, however I completely disagree. The big east was dead. Everyone saw the writing on the wall. I just don't understand the mentality that the founders should ride this sinking ship to the bottom of the ocean. Things change. Its a sometimes sad reality of life. However, it sometimes also gives those affected with vision and gumption the opportunity to redefine themselves and/ot take advantage of chaos. What we have here is a real pportunity for the taking. Its up to our leadership to execute though if this is going to be successful. I personally think we have some pretty sharp folks at gtown who are up to the task. Dont you?
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Post by JohnnyJones on Dec 13, 2012 17:53:02 GMT -5
I'm neither thrilled, nor depressed. I'm anxious. This is a big move. Both sides, in my view, have rational arguments. I could have supported hanging-on and trying to cobble together football if the money was right, but if there were good reasons to make a move now (because doing so now is financially beneficial as opposed to waiting), then I understand it. What I don't understand, frankly, is anyone being confident that his or her opinion is undoubtedly correct. Exactly how I feel as well.
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Post by NoBoumtjeInTheYaYaRoom on Dec 13, 2012 17:53:41 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. DFW, Your thoughts are understood and a somewhat common refrain, especially among older (no offense meant) boosters/alumni of programs. But I truly believe you are downplaying the importance of a brand in todays college sport culture. Name me off the top of your head an NBA player that went to Clemson. Or walk into your local Lids store in Dallas and find a Wake Forest hat. Neither are likely to happen. But ask a casual fan of college basketball to name a Hoya NBA'er or find Georgetown accessories/clothing and its a fairly easy task. Today's college athletics, both due to media and the internet, is a vastly different dynamic than in the glory days of Holy Cross or Fordham. Furthermore, thanks to the elder Thompson, Georgetown still is a team that many "love to hate". And in todays TV coverage, that is an important factor toward ratings. Do you think that a new basketball focused conference will not get a TV Deal from one of the 3 major outlets: NBC, Fox or ESPN? Do you not think that being seen as a trailblazer in terms of basketball reallignment will not be seen as a feather in the GU cap? Do you think players like Otto Porter come to GU to play against Syracuse and Uconn, or do they sense a family environment, at a top notch university, with the ability to be a top 10 ranked program, that plays on national television and funnels players to the NBA? Georgetown is and will remain a major "brand" even if they are not associated with the Big East name. Do I think that the next several months will be crucial to the future of Georgetown basketball? Of course. But with so many assets in the Sports world at Georgetown's disposal, with Hoya ties, I believe that they will pick the correct path. Degoia is certainly a huge proponent of the importance of high-level basketball at the University, and one would hope that any future President would also see the value that a Nationally prominent program has on the University's success as a whole.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 13, 2012 17:55:30 GMT -5
Let's also be clear: the powers at be at Holy Cross DISDAINED the money elements of big time sports. They looked down on it and made an intentional move to not be good.
If Georgetown does that, we're done.
But we're not if we can build as strong of a program as we can right now. Connecticut and Cincy are gone as soon as they find a suitor. I'm not even sure who else we are actually leaving at this point.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 13, 2012 17:57:12 GMT -5
Exactly,
UConn and Cincy were going to be gone at first chance, which makes the UConn President laughable for her suggestions that the seven bball schools show "loyalty"
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hoyaback
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Post by hoyaback on Dec 13, 2012 17:57:45 GMT -5
RBHoya - Thats exactly what i've been trying to say. And heck, we can be better than any BCS league outside of the ACC. (and maybe the big ten if this renaissance is for real).
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 13, 2012 18:00:00 GMT -5
First, let me say that I don't think DFW is wrong. He is right that there is a very real and significant risk that this will spell the end of major sports for Georgetown. There are so many things that can go wrong, and based on the track record of the institutions controlling this maneuver...well, we all should be clutching our rosaries very tightly because it is more than likely that they will not land as squarely or safely as some of the more optimistic members of this board might believe.
That being said, I think there is also a better than negligible chance that this break away effort by the Catholics could serve to establish a viable "new path" in college athletics - one that does not tie itself to college football. Much like the original founding of the Big East. And there is something to be said for that. This is, in a sense, a Hail Mary. But what better group to take such a leap of faith. Hopefully, God really is on our side. It will likely never be tested so thoroughly as it will in the very near future.
Also, I don't think there is any dispute by DFW or any others that remaining wedded to the Big East as it was/is/will be comprised was without risk. Sure, there was the security of some revenue based on the name brand and the media contracts currently in negotiation. However, we can only assume that it had become increasingly clear to many privy to the negotiations that those numbers were neither as secure nor as high as had been hoped. Thus, there appeared to be a near certain likelihood that a failure to act by the Catholic schools would result both in a decrease in the quality of play and the fiscal reward they would enjoy in the Big East going forward. Perhaps most significantly, there appears to have been some recognition among those Catholic schools that there was a brief window in which they had leverage, and a failure to take action - even if only as part of a negotiation with the other Big East members over revenue splits - would be a gross and perhaps fatal strategic blunder. As such, they appear to have called a meeting before Aresco to put forward their concerns. It does not appear that they were assuaged.
As I said before, I hope fervently that this plays out as we would all like, with this newly (re?)conceived league being brought to term and born into prosperity. We certainly have the sympathy of the media, who seem to almost universally hail the break. We also would appear to have momentum, in that schools appear to be eager to join our cause. However, there are many daunting complexities that could still derail this effort. With that in mind, we should all consider - and not just dismiss - the concerns raised by DFW and those who recognize the daunting task the Catholic schools have set before them.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2012 18:01:07 GMT -5
What are we passing on right now...you keep failing to mention that. Passing on the ability to be a nationally prominent program across many sports, not one. You are judged by the company you keep, and this group of down-and-outers does nothing for Georgetown in the long run. Dissolving a conference loses all that accumulated NCAA money due the BE for the next six years that UConn, Syracuse, et al. left behind. Now, When attendance starts to fall and you don't have the accumulated TV credits to fall back on, watch out. You don't have to agree with anything I say, but please, do the math. There's a financial precipice Georgetown is climbing upon, and no safety net.
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Post by rustyshackleford on Dec 13, 2012 18:01:54 GMT -5
Question for those who are more knowledgeable about this - what happens to the exit fees for the schools that have recently left the conference? Do they still have to pay them considering the Big East will be dissolved or does the fact that they left before dissolution govern their payment?
Never mind - just read the article - it explains a lot of this though I'm sure Cuse, Pitt and others who are still in the conference are going to sue for recovery of their exit fee.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 13, 2012 18:02:13 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. This doesn't make any sense because all of these were problems yesterday too. Your perspective would make sense if Georgetown and the Catholic schools willingly left a conference like the Big East of yesteryear to try to form a new league like this. But you really seem unwilling to accept the fact that the "Big East" we're leaving, with teams like SMU, Houston, Tulane, UCF, and USF, was really no better. It was a league with no BCS autobid and a lot of poor basketball programs. Essentially it was Conference USA from a decade ago with UConn swapped for Louisville. It's a tough situation either way, as most of us have realized for a long time now, and you have to take the lesser of 2 evils. This new league has its issues for sure but so did the old league. If we have some assurance that the tv contract is comparable, I'm happy trying this new league. At least its stable, has some commonality of schools and can be marketed as a basketball-focused league. Nobody is under any illusions that any recruit is wild about playing PC, Depaul or SHU, but the league we were in yesterday wasn't really any better. The new league at least has potential for growth since we don't have to worry about defections and because the commonality of schools brings marketing opportunities, the chance for rivalries to develop, etc. The "leftover league" had most of the same negatives and really none of the positives.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 13, 2012 18:02:36 GMT -5
Hey DFW care to explain how UNLV is able to still be relevant in a weak conference. The fact remains is if JT3 stays the brand and tradition will carry on (much has it has with UNLV). The truth is we don't get the top level recruits as it is (Otto was only 33 Greg is the last top 10 we got) so I dont think there will be much of a drop off there if we go to what becomes a "mid major".
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 13, 2012 18:04:00 GMT -5
What are we passing on right now...you keep failing to mention that. Passing on the ability to be a nationally prominent program across many sports, not one. You are judged by the company you keep, and this group of down-and-outers does nothing for Georgetown in the long run. Dissolving a conference loses all that accumulated NCAA money due the BE for the next six years that UConn, Syracuse, et al. left behind. Now, When attendance starts to fall and you don't have the accumulated TV credits to fall back on, watch out. You don't have to agree with anything I say, but please, do the math. There's a financial precipice Georgetown is climbing upon, and no safety net. It sounds like you haven't read the USA Today story. Nothing has been determined yet about the exact strategy of leaving exactly because of the exit fee and NCAA unit money on the table. Speaking of money, when do we create the new City League TV network?
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Post by rustyshackleford on Dec 13, 2012 18:04:19 GMT -5
Also it's shortsighted and while for a long term strategy I'm not yet sure how I feel about this the prospect of home and homes with the creightons, xaviers, butlers and vcus we'll hopefully see if awesome.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Dec 13, 2012 18:07:38 GMT -5
This is great for our basketball program, but has serious consequences for our lacrosse and soccer programs too... keep in mind gtown is not ALL basketball. The soccer team has made it to more national championships than we have in the past 25 years.
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Dec 13, 2012 18:09:49 GMT -5
What are we passing on right now...you keep failing to mention that. Passing on the ability to be a nationally prominent program across many sports, not one. You are judged by the company you keep, and this group of down-and-outers does nothing for Georgetown in the long run. Dissolving a conference loses all that accumulated NCAA money due the BE for the next six years that UConn, Syracuse, et al. left behind. Now, When attendance starts to fall and you don't have the accumulated TV credits to fall back on, watch out. You don't have to agree with anything I say, but please, do the math. There's a financial precipice Georgetown is climbing upon, and no safety net. Company in the old big east - tulane, usf, houston, smu, Ucf . . . That's a club i would never intentionally join. What does this company say about us? Financial precipice? Do you honestly think gtown goes over a cliff if we were to even lose the entire $1.5 mm of funding. If that's the case then gtown has much greater problems that go well beyond the big east.
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superan
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Post by superan on Dec 13, 2012 18:10:46 GMT -5
If we vote to dissolve the league...which we will since we hold all the cards because we are 7/10, we also get to vote on distribution of assets which I would imagine includes the NCAA money, brand assets, and potentially contracts with MSG.
I'm pretty sure that's what the conference by-laws say, right?
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Dec 13, 2012 18:11:51 GMT -5
Hooray on all of this - very excited and happy about it.
There is only one downside: we are getting stuck with Seton Hall and Providence who bring absolutely nothing. Depaul at least resides in Chicago which is an important market for them and several other schools in the potential new league as the "capital of the Midwest".
Looking forward to strengthening some of the rivalries we are bringing and developing new ones. Playing home and home every year against every team is important in achieving that and I hope we stick to 12 teams to accomplish that. Would also leave plenty of room for strong non-conference schedules, which we will be able to continue given our national prominence and the fact that we play at a centrally-located, modern 17000+ arena rather than some small or dumpy on-campus stadium.
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Post by HoyaSaxa86 on Dec 13, 2012 18:13:13 GMT -5
Saint Louis University would be a good addition. Under the late Rick Majerus, he built a team that went from being almost a joke 5 years ago to making it to the 2nd round of the NCAAs last year. It's the second oldest Jesuit college in the nation, and the oldest Catholic university west of the Mississippi. And it was Ricky's dream to play Georgetown-- he said that on many occasions. What better way to honor his memory, and add a competitive school to the New Big East Conference?
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