AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by AltoSaxa on Dec 13, 2012 17:28:48 GMT -5
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 13, 2012 17:30:00 GMT -5
Why are we talking about football schools? Memphis and Temple aren't going to be a part of this.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Dec 13, 2012 17:33:58 GMT -5
I am still holding out hope for keeping UCon (and Cincy) as members who play their football elsewhere. Such a conference would be firmly in the control of the non-FBS schools, but UCon especially would make it a more compelling basketball league, a better sale to MSG, and (selfishly) a stonger tie to New England than just having PC. If and when UCon leaves, they leave, so be it - hopefully the league is better established in all respects by then, and then you just add Saint Louis or whoever didn't make the first cut. In the meantime, all kinds of changes could happen in the NCAA and ideally college football either ceases to exist (unlikely, I know, but I can fondly hope) or completely decouples from the rest of college sports, taking with it the conference strucutures and tv rights fees for the top 50 or so programs, leaving behind the likes of Duke, Wake, Vandy, Syracuse, UCon, etc. for yet another reconfiguration.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2012 17:34:15 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 13, 2012 17:36:05 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. You could not be more wrong.....your whole stance on this has been nothing short of silly....grow up
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HoyaTex22
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 116
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Dec 13, 2012 17:39:43 GMT -5
This is an exciting back to the future day. Hindsight is 20/20 and we get the rare opportunity for a redo.
Most importantly we are finally insulated from the chaos that will continue in the FBS dominated landscape for the foreseeable future. While the ACC and Big 12 engage in trench warfare to secure the last of 4 seats at the table, we will be able to build a differentiated basketball first league in a safe haven with the long term in mind.
I'm completely reenergized and cant wait for the first day of the new conference.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 13, 2012 17:39:58 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. I'm not happy about what has happened, but let's be clear: Holy Cross did not want to be good at sports. Gonzaga wants to; they went to perennial strong team from absolutely nothing in a much weaker conference than this will be. Butler went to two final fours. VCU went. It's not easy. It's not as good a scenario. It's not a death sentence.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2012 17:41:02 GMT -5
You could not be more wrong.....your whole stance on this has been nothing short of silly....grow up My opinions are my own. I respect yours, do the same likewise. Show some maturity for those who disagree.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 13, 2012 17:42:13 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. I completely disagree with everything you are saying, but even if we grant you all of your points here, there is absolutely nothing about what happened today that makes the situation worse. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays SMU and Tulane either. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Tulane is a peer institution either. There wasn't a "top conference" left for Georgetown to belong to. Losing UConn and Cincy hurts nothing, particularly given that both won't be around in 2 years anyway if we'd stayed.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Dec 13, 2012 17:43:02 GMT -5
Hasn't it been discussed how expensive it is to support a high-level football program? That's why small schools like Fordham and Holy Cross failed.
Georgetown is not attempting to support a high-level football program, and already has the reputation and structure in place to support a high-level basketball program. That's why Georgetown will succeed in this endeavor.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 13, 2012 17:44:41 GMT -5
You could not be more wrong.....your whole stance on this has been nothing short of silly....grow up My opinions are my own. I respect yours, do the same likewise. Show some maturity for those who disagree. I do respect your opinion, but you're being over the top and silly right now, like a petulant nine year old or something. Gtown will ALWAYS be a national program as long as it wants to be. There is nothing wrong with a bball only conference of Hoyas, Marquette, VCU, Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga....nothing... The rest of the uninformed doesn't need you spreading propaganda and fear that's completely baseless and unfounded
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hoyaback
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 140
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Post by hoyaback on Dec 13, 2012 17:45:10 GMT -5
I'm on DFW's side in that theres a chance this blows up in our face, but like so many have said, staying put was definitely going to end up with us being a real mid major.
TV time/Revenue/Long term competitiveness are the primary factors for determining who should be in a new conference. We should be looking at fan bases, ESPN favorites, and national brands like Zaga. Geographical footprint and home and homes are secondary to relevance. Size should be determined by when we reach the point that adding teams brings down the conference take/school.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 13, 2012 17:45:09 GMT -5
DFW: Let's set aside finances for a moment. I was on board with sticking with football if it made good financial sense. Let's assume, for purposes of this argument, that the money we get and television access will be similar in either scenario. I have no idea if that is true; none of us does at present.
That said, I think you're forgetting that the BE conference we knew is now gone -- with or without us. Why would a recruit come to a school to play Tulane and the other southern football schools? If the level of competition is the key, we aren't going to get recruits anyway! All we're doing here is losing the southern-based football schools. Yes, we're also losing Temple and Memphis (probably) and that's unfortunate, but aren't Butler and Xavier similar names to those two, in terms of recruiting? Yes, we're losing (probably) UConn and Cinci, but we were going to lose them anyway, almost certainly. And maybe we can keep them for the time being.
I'm neither thrilled, nor depressed. I'm anxious. This is a big move. Both sides, in my view, have rational arguments. I could have supported hanging-on and trying to cobble together football if the money was right, but if there were good reasons to make a move now (because doing so now is financially beneficial as opposed to waiting), then I understand it.
What I don't understand, frankly, is anyone being confident that his or her opinion is undoubtedly correct.
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Hoya06
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 406
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Post by Hoya06 on Dec 13, 2012 17:45:25 GMT -5
Count me among those (relatively few) who think this is a long overdue, and very positive maneuver. We have a product that makes sense, and that we can build a business around. High-level basketball creates television money, not vice-versa. This conference, if constituted correctly, will thrive. I'm mystified by this thinking. Soon, no one will care anymore. The next Otto Porter is not coming to a school that plays Butler and Providence. The next JT III isn't coming to a school where nothing gets built and Seton Hall is a peer institution. The next seven figure donor will place his investment in something up the hill, now down from it. The next university president will see the deficits that are covered annually and ask what's the point anymore. One can be the worst program in a top conference and know that there is always hope to improve, and even during the lean years, the great teams will still pass through town. Soon, they will merely pass by. Holy Cross learned this lesson. Fordham learned this lesson. Georgetown is about to. DFW - While I think I am more in Hoyaholic's camp than yours, I certainly see some merit in your points about us losing credibility and significance on the recruiting trail long term. However, this seems like the best option for Gtown long term. What would you prefer the program do? Apologies if you have answered this elsewhere.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2012 17:45:37 GMT -5
Holy Cross HAD a high level football program and was forced to downgrade it when it passed on the Big East and labored as a forgotten program--it was a I-A program as late as 1986.
Fairfield was in the woebegone MAAC for six years. No comparison.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Dec 13, 2012 17:46:17 GMT -5
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 13, 2012 17:48:30 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing about the experience of Holy Cross 35 years ago in a completely different world of college sports and television that has any bearing whatsoever on Georgetown's current predicament.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 13, 2012 17:50:29 GMT -5
What a crazy day. I just hope that we actually did our diligence--both as a group and Georgetown individually--before making this move. If we floated the idea to consultants or people in the know in media and it appeared that the money was going to be close whether we stayed or left, I'm ok with leaving since it gains stability and gives us the opportunity to brand a new league full of schools that we actually have commonality with. But if the 7 schools just decided to leave because they were bitter over the Tulane thing and the whole "We don't have anything in common with Houston, SMU or UCF!" sentiment, then I dislike it. In other words if we examined it from all angles and it was the rational decision it's good, but if we rushed into it or made the decision based on emotion, it's very questionable.
As far as who to add, it's fun for message board fodder but I hope that we are NOT playing a guessing game. Hopefully we are either working directly with the networks to find out who they prefer or we are working with media consultants to determine which additions add the most value for a television deal. That's who we need to get. Whatever it takes for this new conference to be nationally relevant, we need to do.
Personally, I'm somewhat intrigued by adding Gonzaga if they can make it work for non-revenue sports. Ideally this new league will be positioned as "as good as the BCS leagues, but without the BCS football". The narrative should be that this league represents the elite basketball schools who have been cut out of the BCS party banding together to form a basketball-focused super league. I think it's easier to sell that if you go national and add a team like Gonzaga who for years has been very competitive but excluded from the "high major" table. I feel like if you keep it regionally focused you're inviting A-10 comparisons. But I do understand the difficulty of going coast-to-coast.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 13, 2012 17:50:30 GMT -5
By the way, could the Washington Post possibly be slower and more indifferent to this story? I realize that we need to know what RGIII had for breakfast, but come on this is kind of a big deal.
Anybody watching the noisy afternoon ESPN programs? Curious what Kornheiser and Wilbon have to say.
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Post by westendhoya on Dec 13, 2012 17:50:52 GMT -5
Holy Cross HAD a high level football program and was forced to downgrade it when it passed on the Big East and labored as a forgotten program--it was a I-A program as late as 1986. Fairfield was in the woebegone MAAC for six years. No comparison. What are we passing on right now...you keep failing to mention that.
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