Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 20:30:21 GMT -5
Disappointed like everyone else. For me, the toughest part (aside from having to watch this game on my iPhone while sitting in court all day haha) was that it felt like we lacked the mental toughness. Granted, I expected that with such a young team, but we got punched in the mouth in the first half and just never really recovered until a spurt at the end. I'm not in the ridiculous fire JT3 camp, but it is interesting to that every single year he gives the same tired quote about the team "working through it" and "they need to learn to work through it" in regards to some opponent's throwing their best run at us(This year it was Howard...) and every year it feels like when the time comes for JT3's teams to work though it, they don't or can't. I don't know where that comes from, but it feels like a trend to me. Really, the one team that didn't fall victim to this was the 06 and 07 teams which we knew had as strong an on-court leadership presence as any college team ever had. Maybe I'm painting with too broad a brush, but to me it's the hole this program needs to figure out how to fill. Hopefully, it's as simple as the young guys getting a year in and coming back next year ready to step up, but that would only speak to the character of those guys, and not really explain to me why every 6-7 years we get a group of guys recruited who can make something special of their time here as opposed to a program that regularly instills it. The '06/'07 teams had better players. It has nothing to do with leadership. There's no Jeff Green or Roy Hibbert on this roster.
|
|
harlemhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
|
Post by harlemhoya on Mar 18, 2012 20:32:47 GMT -5
More post ups for Otto Porter.
|
|
lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
|
Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 18, 2012 20:36:33 GMT -5
Disappointed like everyone else. For me, the toughest part (aside from having to watch this game on my iPhone while sitting in court all day haha) was that it felt like we lacked the mental toughness. Granted, I expected that with such a young team, but we got punched in the mouth in the first half and just never really recovered until a spurt at the end. I'm not in the ridiculous fire JT3 camp, but it is interesting to that every single year he gives the same tired quote about the team "working through it" and "they need to learn to work through it" in regards to some opponent's throwing their best run at us(This year it was Howard...) and every year it feels like when the time comes for JT3's teams to work though it, they don't or can't. I don't know where that comes from, but it feels like a trend to me. Really, the one team that didn't fall victim to this was the 06 and 07 teams which we knew had as strong an on-court leadership presence as any college team ever had. Maybe I'm painting with too broad a brush, but to me it's the hole this program needs to figure out how to fill. Hopefully, it's as simple as the young guys getting a year in and coming back next year ready to step up, but that would only speak to the character of those guys, and not really explain to me why every 6-7 years we get a group of guys recruited who can make something special of their time here as opposed to a program that regularly instills it. The '06/'07 teams had better players. It has nothing to do with leadership. There's no Jeff Green or Roy Hibbert on this roster. This team's talent was certainly comparable to the 05-06 version of that team, which went to the Sweet 16 and played the national champs to a 4 point game. So, don't sell these guys that short.
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 20:44:53 GMT -5
The '06/'07 teams had better players. It has nothing to do with leadership. There's no Jeff Green or Roy Hibbert on this roster. This team's talent was certainly comparable to the 05-06 version of that team, which went to the Sweet 16 and played the national champs to a 4 point game. So, don't sell these guys that short. If you see in the sophs and below two future NBA lottery picks and a junior guard the caliber of Jon Wallace, then my goodness I hope you're right. Even if you're right, you're talking about a one game difference in tourney performance--in this case, a two-point difference.
|
|
KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
|
Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 18, 2012 20:49:10 GMT -5
I think we could potentially see one lottery pick in Otto or Greg by their junior or senior year. We could be lacking in the Jon Wallace department though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Markel settle in and play under control next year though. I think he still has the potential to be a very solid player for us. Throw in Nerlens, and maybe we're onto something.
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 20:52:00 GMT -5
I think we could potentially see one lottery pick in Otto or Greg by their junior or senior year. We could be lacking in the Jon Wallace department though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Markel settle in and play under control next year though. I think he still has the potential to be a very solid player for us. Throw in Nerlens, and maybe we're onto something. I would love for that to happen and certainly won't rule it out, but it would be crazy right now to say this team has the talent of the '05/'06 squad.
|
|
KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
|
Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 18, 2012 20:55:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree it would be too soon to make that statement. It'll be interesting to see how the current freshmen do in their sophomore year. I'm looking forward to it.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 20:56:07 GMT -5
This team's talent was certainly comparable to the 05-06 version of that team, which went to the Sweet 16 and played the national champs to a 4 point game. So, don't sell these guys that short. If you see in the sophs and below two future NBA lottery picks and a junior guard the caliber of Jon Wallace, then my goodness I hope you're right. Even if you're right, you're talking about a one game difference in tourney performance--in this case, a two-point difference. Even if he's right which he's not. Sims played only 5 minutes of the first half and was plagued with foul trouble which limited his effectiveness and let them go crazy with the offensive rebounds. Considering the whole offense ran through Sims this year (and not our point guards), it was a double whammy that made this game really hard to win.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:04:16 GMT -5
There are definitely people on here who have lost perspective. Anyone who knows basketball knows we were not a legit #3 seed, I was on the record expecting a #5 seed. Further, NCST may have been an 11 seed, but I think they proved they were better than a 6 seed by dominating SDSU. Would it make some people feel better if our seed was more true like a #4/5 and NCST was corrected to a #6? I mean is that really what is causing the controversy here? The seeding. Like someone posted, is USF a #12 that much worse than we are because there was a #3 next to our name? In this day of parity in college basketball seeding is becoming meaningless.
Per this theory, why not be be a middle of the pack BE team and have a blah regular season earn a #9 seed and then we will never again uderachieve in the NCAAs. Sounds like a perfect plan for some of you.
The fact this team could over-achieve all preseason expectations this season so drastically and yet III is still questioned just proves to me there are definitely people on here with their own personal agendas that no one should have a use for.
|
|
lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
|
Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:08:04 GMT -5
You're seriously saying that the 05-06 team's talent was so vastly superior to the Clark/Sims/Thompson/Porter/Whittington group??
Thompson will be an NBA pick, borderline 1st round, maybe move up if he stays another. Otto is on his way. Greg might play his way up there. And Clark is certainly a capable Wallace "replacement". Sims was basically as effective as Roy was in his sophomore year. So, I think it's silly to say this team is far and away less talented than the 05-06 team. Especially when you consider that Jeff didn't really become a lottery pick until he was BE POY and Roy was a lottery pick by accident. He's freakin 7'2".
That group hung with the national champions and gave them the toughest game of the tournament. They didn't do that because of talent, the same way we didn't lose today because of a lack of it. I'm not slamming anyone here. I just think Coach needs to look at himself and figure out a way to not just pay lip-service to the team "working through it" but actually doing it when it matters (NOT against Howard). JT3 is a great coach, I wouldn't want anyone else except maybe Pops himself. That said, in about 8 years JT3 has matched Pops' 20+ year record in the bad loss department. I think that does require some attention from the Coach to figure out how to fix it aside from soundbites and Kenner League.
|
|
mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by mapei on Mar 18, 2012 21:12:44 GMT -5
I stayed off the board for the first few hours, just too disappointed. Hopped on several minutes ago and read the last 5-6 pages of posts.
I'm in the camp that is happy with the direction and strength of the program. I love JT3's coaching demeanor and the way he treats his players with respect in public. We're a respected program that overachieved this year. And, though I will miss Henry and Jason lots, I'm looking forward to next year.
The living-up-to-seedings thing is weird. I really wanted us to, just because it's kind of embarrassing not to, and the recent first-round losses made it acute. But I honestly think luck has a lot to do with it, unless you have way more talent than we do - which generally you get by making compromises in character or academics that we don't make. I'll take that.
We were overseeded a little, probably should have been a 4. And State was way better than their record this year. I've watched them play a bunch of times. If we play them 10 times, they are going to win half of those games. We didn't play against them the way we played against Belmont because they are a tougher matchup for us. We had better athletes than Belmont, and the refs called that game loose. We only had 10 fouls the whole game, and Belmont only 15. That wasn't going to happen against State's physicality. State can beat anyone on a good day - their problem was that they had some bad games mid-season, and then got out of their slump at just the right time.
More than anything else, I'm going to miss not having the Hoyas to watch for several months now. I think we had a good season, with some great moments. And now I hate that it isn't going to be there for a while.
|
|
OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
|
Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 18, 2012 21:18:28 GMT -5
I think we could potentially see one lottery pick in Otto or Greg by their junior or senior year. We could be lacking in the Jon Wallace department though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Markel settle in and play under control next year though. I think he still has the potential to be a very solid player for us. Throw in Nerlens, and maybe we're onto something. I hope you are right about Markel. His development is crucial for the Hoyas to make the next step. Even if NN goes elsewhere the Hoyas will be competitive with a frontline of Porter,Moses ,Hopkins, Lubick, Bolden and Adams(if healthy). They will be solid at the off guard with Whittington, DSR and Bowen. They will only have Narkel and Jabril to play the point. Neither distinguished himself at the position this year. Of the two Jabril seems the better candidate if he can improve his handle and 3pt shot because he did not appear to be afraid. Markel many times looked overwhelmed at the idea of running the team.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
|
Post by lichoya68 on Mar 18, 2012 21:21:38 GMT -5
me thinks were gonna be ok just my opinion but heck we are georgetown go hoyas
|
|
lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
|
Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:22:35 GMT -5
Agree on Jabril. If he can improve in those areas, he could be special. He just carries himself like a floor leader, IMO. I would love for him to step up and become the No. 1 PG for this team. Able to penetrate, great defender, just want to see that shooting get up there and he could be the catalyst for special things with Greg and Otto.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:22:36 GMT -5
When you have 6 hours in the car on the way back to DC to think about what just happened, a lot of things go through your head. Anger turns to disappointment, but I have to be entirely honest; the disappointment subsided much quicker than I thought it would.
In my mind, three things determined the outcome of this game, which was a battle all afternoon long and in terms of effort, neither team deserved to lose.
1) Rebounding. We got virtually no second chances of our own, and although we did a great job limiting their second shot opportunities in the first 10-12 minutes, it seemed like they were really able to overwhelm us on the boards from that point on until the end of the game. Not having Henry obviously hurt, and their bigs were just as athletic as we thought they were, so it was going to be a challenge no matter what. What was inexcusable was giving up those three offensive rebounds off them missed FTs. That killed us.
2) Leslie's steal before the half. One thing III and his staff are really going to have to back to the drawing board on this offseason is to work on ways to get our team to maximize end of half possessions, especially in situations where we should be holding for one shot. We were never able to do this correctly all year. Guys repeatedly jacked up shots with ample time left on the game clock and gave the other team another chance to score, or even worse, made a careless error which resulted in a turnover and an easy bucket the other way (which happened today). No way we should be down 3 going into half in a game where we have the ball with 35 seconds left at the end of the half down 1. That dunk changed the entire complexion of the game and gave NC State a ton of momentum heading into the break.
3) NC State hit some really tough shots down the stretch. Sometimes, you just have to tip your cap to the opponent and realize that they just hit some unbelievable shots under duress. Wood's last 3 and Brown's baseline pull up jumper were both really difficult shots. We made them work all afternoon (37% FG def.), they just happened to hit a shot or two more than we did coming down the stretch. Against good teams, that will happen.
Couple positives I took away from today, though. I know a lot of people are killing Otto for that last shot with about 15 seconds left on the game-clock, but the fact of the matter is we've got a guy who will be here for the next several years who is not afraid to take the big shot. That is going to be huge for us when he becomes one of, if not THE go-to-guy on our team next year. The sky is the limit for him, and I for one am glad we have a guy who not only can make the big shots when we need them, but won't shy away from the big moment in the future.
Also, I loved the fact our guys didn't fold when we got behind big. In 2010 and 2011, the moment we got punched in the mouth by Ohio and VCU, our team let their level of intensity drop and decided to wave the white flag. This team fought tooth and nail to come back, and were it not for a few really tough makes by Wood and Brown down the stretch, would have climbed the mountain. I think the overall mindset of this program has really improved, and this could really be the stepping stone for bigger and better things next year.
Thought the refs were atrocious all afternoon, but they were evenly atrocious. I kill the refs more than anyone, and I can say with certainty that they didn't cost us the game today. Valentine does need to retire, though. When you get that many calls wrong both ways in a single game, it's time to hang them up and move on to something else.
HHC pre-game event at Gordon Biersch I thought was very nicely done and in my opinion, much nicer than last year's event at Swissotel in Chicago. Thanks to those who organized that event for this morning.
All in all, obviously still unhappy we didn't pull it out today, but there is a lot of hope for the future. Thanks to Jason and Henry for helping to lay the foundation much like Brandon, Ashanti and DJ did back in '06. If our returning guys continue to work hard to develop and realize their potential next year AND if JTIII/staff can work some recruiting magic in a few weeks, it will be a really exciting season next year. Already looking forward to it. Hoya Saxa.
|
|
mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by mapei on Mar 18, 2012 21:26:58 GMT -5
Nice post, Rockaway.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:28:39 GMT -5
What was inexcusable was giving up those three offensive rebounds off them missed FTs. That killed us. Who blew their assignment on those 3 plays?
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:29:52 GMT -5
. 2) Leslie's steal before the half. One thing III and his staff are really going to have to back to the drawing board on this offseason is to work on ways to get our team to maximize end of half possessions, especially in situations where we should be holding for one shot. We were never able to do this correctly all year. Guys repeatedly jacked up shots with ample time left on the game clock and gave the other team another chance to score, or even worse, made a careless error which resulted in a turnover and an easy bucket the other way (which happened today). No way we should be down 3 going into half in a game where we have the ball with 35 seconds left at the end of the half down 1. That dunk changed the entire complexion of the game and gave NC State a ton of momentum heading into the break. That's the point guards fault. Not really much Coach can do. I believe it was Clark on that play with the lazy pass.
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 21:34:50 GMT -5
Also, I loved the fact our guys didn't fold when we got behind big. In 2010 and 2011, the moment we got punched in the mouth by Ohio and VCU, our team let their level of intensity drop and decided to wave the white flag. This team fought tooth and nail to come back, and were it not for a few really tough makes by Wood and Brown down the stretch, would have climbed the mountain. I think the overall mindset of this program has really improved, and this could really be the stepping stone for bigger and better things next year. This might be overselling things a bit. In 2010 and 2011, we just didn't play very good defense--all year but especially in the tournament. To make the kind of runs it takes to overcome a big deficit, you need either terrific defense--which we had--or ridiculous lights out shooting (Austin Freeman vs. UConn). We actually got just a little bit of the latter, but not enough--too many empty possessions when were clawing back such that any bucket at all by NC State felt like a dagger. Anyway, if by "intensity," you meant "great defense," than I agree with you (and I think the former is frequently invoked as an unknown proxy for the latter). I don't think its far to the Freeman/Wright Hoyas to suggest it was just about effort and guts. Defense just wasn't the strong suit of that squad, or Monroe's either, unfortunately. I suppose its possible it was effort, but that's impossible to measure.
|
|
gahoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 621
|
Post by gahoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:37:56 GMT -5
One thing III and his staff are really going to have to back to the drawing board on this offseason is to work on ways to get our team to maximize end of half possessions, especially in situations where we should be holding for one shot. We were never able to do this correctly all year We've done it great several times this year. It's just easier to notice the times that we mess up rather than when it is executed so well and quietly that it almost goes unnoticed. Hollis's shot after the inbounds (another alleged JTIII weakness which might hold some merit. But that's a whole other topic, post, argument, etc.) I think against Provvy part II is a great example.
|
|