|
Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:38:48 GMT -5
. 2) Leslie's steal before the half. One thing III and his staff are really going to have to back to the drawing board on this offseason is to work on ways to get our team to maximize end of half possessions, especially in situations where we should be holding for one shot. We were never able to do this correctly all year. Guys repeatedly jacked up shots with ample time left on the game clock and gave the other team another chance to score, or even worse, made a careless error which resulted in a turnover and an easy bucket the other way (which happened today). No way we should be down 3 going into half in a game where we have the ball with 35 seconds left at the end of the half down 1. That dunk changed the entire complexion of the game and gave NC State a ton of momentum heading into the break. That's the point guards fault. Not really much Coach can do. I believe it was Clark on that play with the lazy pass. Believe you're right, but why not have him (or Starks) hold the ball until there's 6-7 seconds left on the clock and then have him drive to the bucket to get a shot for himself and hope you get an offensive board if he misses? A contested shot is not the worst play there if you don't give the other team a chance to come back and score. At worst, we should've been down 1 at half today. I'm not singling today's turnover out, but we killed ourselves all year by using our last possession of the half to run the offense, take a decent shot that comes along, miss it, and give the other team 10-15 seconds to come back and get a shot that we should have never allowed them time to do in the first place. That's my gripe.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:43:11 GMT -5
That's the point guards fault. Not really much Coach can do. I believe it was Clark on that play with the lazy pass. Believe you're right, but why not have him (or Starks) hold the ball until there's 6-7 seconds left on the clock and then have him drive to the bucket to get a shot for himself and hope you get an offensive board if he misses? A contested shot is not the worst play there if you don't give the other team a chance to come back and score. At worst, we should've been down 1 at half today. I'm not singling today's turnover out, but we killed ourselves all year by using our last possession of the half to run the offense, take a decent shot that comes along, miss it, and give the other team 10-15 seconds to come back and get a shot that we should have never allowed them time to do in the first place. That's my gripe. Neither guy is really a point guard. Clark can penetrate but he is not a pass guy. (Actually in this game he did try to pass off dribble penetration a couple times but guys weren't prepared for that since all season he's been a black hole). Starks handles aren't the best either. And he can't penetrate or finish. It leads to a turnover. We are able to go with out a PG because we use Sims as the point center and run everything through him. But Sims wasn't available to us this game because of foul trouble. Sims was the one guy on our team we couldn't afford to lose and the refs took him out of the game.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 18, 2012 21:45:06 GMT -5
Also, I loved the fact our guys didn't fold when we got behind big. In 2010 and 2011, the moment we got punched in the mouth by Ohio and VCU, our team let their level of intensity drop and decided to wave the white flag. This team fought tooth and nail to come back, and were it not for a few really tough makes by Wood and Brown down the stretch, would have climbed the mountain. I think the overall mindset of this program has really improved, and this could really be the stepping stone for bigger and better things next year. This might be overselling things a bit. In 2010 and 2011, we just didn't play very good defense--all year but especially in the tournament. To make the kind of runs it takes to overcome a big deficit, you need either terrific defense--which we had--or ridiculous lights out shooting (Austin Freeman vs. UConn). We actually got just a little bit of the latter, but not enough--too many empty possessions when were clawing back such that any bucket at all by NC State felt like a dagger. Anyway, if by "intensity," you meant "great defense," than I agree with you (and I think the former is frequently invoked as an unknown proxy for the latter). I don't think its far to the Freeman/Wright Hoyas to suggest it was just about effort and guts. Defense just wasn't the strong suit of that squad, or Monroe's either, unfortunately. I suppose its possible it was effort, but that's impossible to measure. It might not be fair to the 2010-2011 teams to say what I've said, but I think when you look at at JTIII quote from the Belmont post-game presser like this... “With all this talk about offense I think people forget we have willful defenders, long capable defenders with length and speed. Sometimes you have all those things in a person, but they don’t want to work. These guys want to work."... you can't help but think he's much happier with this year's team from an effort standpoint than he was the previous 2 seasons. I know I was.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:04:32 GMT -5
See what just happened to Purdue when Elijah Johnson tried to dribble the time out at the end of the game with the lead and had his pocket picked for a KU layup. Wow.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:05:37 GMT -5
Wow, Elijah Johnson just cost them the win.
|
|
|
Post by bicentennial on Mar 18, 2012 22:09:04 GMT -5
I agree with those who support JTIII and the direction of the program. I know it is not helpful but I think we were playing 5 on 8. While I could see the first two charges being called that on Sims, the reality is he was the only player they called those on all game Leslie did the same things multiple times and it was never called. The 4th call on Sims was by far the worst. The replay showed there was no contact and the ref who called a foul was behind Sims back where he couldn't have seen body contact. There was also a foul at the end of the half agains Otto Porter where Leslie clearly reached in and mugged Otto and Otto, not Leslie was called for a foul. I know good teams work around bad calls, but it seems to me that the refs succeeded at making it a game we couldn't win by not letting Sims play and distribute the ball. Sorry, know this wasn't helpful but had to vent! Sad thing is they also kept Sims from getting the opportunity to show his defense against any of the other future NBA big men in this years tournament!
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,597
|
Post by guru on Mar 18, 2012 22:09:17 GMT -5
Wow, Elijah Johnson just cost them the win. What are you talking about? Elijah Johnson plays for Kansas
|
|
KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
|
Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 18, 2012 22:09:23 GMT -5
Huh? Elijah Johnson is on Kansas. They won.
Taylor almost cost them the game by throwing it down instead of just dribbling out the clock though. Great game overall. Disappointed for Hummel.
|
|
mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
|
Post by mfk24 on Mar 18, 2012 22:10:30 GMT -5
Wow, Elijah Johnson just cost them the win. Wow. He had no business trying to dribble between two defenders. You have the lead, make them foul you.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:11:24 GMT -5
Wow, Elijah Johnson just cost them the win. What are you talking about? Elijah Johnson plays for Kansas I'm talking about the Purdue guy. I think his name is Johnson too but not sure.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:12:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it's the guy who was getting smoked by Joey Rodrigues last year.
|
|
KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
|
Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 18, 2012 22:13:17 GMT -5
Ohhh you meant Terone Johnson, I think. Yeah, that was brutal.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,390
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 18, 2012 22:14:10 GMT -5
This team's talent was certainly comparable to the 05-06 version of that team, which went to the Sweet 16 and played the national champs to a 4 point game. So, don't sell these guys that short. If you see in the sophs and below two future NBA lottery picks and a junior guard the caliber of Jon Wallace, There weren't two lottery picks on the roster. Roy went #17. We can argue that he should have gone higher but he didn't. Period. Can't rewrite history just to make an argument. Next back during the freshmen season for Jeff, Roy and Jon most people weren't even sure if we had one sure "bonafide NBA starter" (as Mike Wise put it) let alone two. Jeff was good but he wasn't blowing up on any of the draft boards until midway through his junior season. The point? We can't say for sure how good these current players will get. The complete narrative for guys like Otto, Greg, Mikael, Jabril, Tyler, Hollis (possibly), etc. hasn't been determined yet. These guys have a talent athletic ability and determination. You include work ethic and some day they may make folks eat their words. Happens all the time in college basketball. Guys whom you didn't see much of or think much of in their first seasons go on to become great players, many of whom get drafted. Not many folks on this board thought Roy would ever be an NBA first round pick, let alone a starter. Last of all stop the revisionism of Jon Wallace. Jon wasn't winning games for us in the NCAA tournament when he was a sophmore. It took time for him to become this apparently legendary figure amongst Hoya faithful. Truth is some folks back then (during his soph season) made mention that the Hoyas would need an upgrade. Jon was a heady player with a fantastic three-point stroke when he was left unguarded, but he had not at that time even come close to proving that he was a great Hoya or would be a great Hoya in the future.
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,597
|
Post by guru on Mar 18, 2012 22:14:50 GMT -5
What are you talking about? Elijah Johnson plays for Kansas I'm talking about the Purdue guy. I think his name is Johnson too but not sure. Oh. Yeah that was a bad play. But I don't think Kansas would have fouled. They were going to get the ball back with time remaining and down 1 if they got the stop.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:15:02 GMT -5
Ohhh you meant Terone Johnson, I think. Yeah, that was brutal. My bad it's Jackson, not Johnson. Elijah Johnson stole the ball for the layup from him.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:17:02 GMT -5
I'm talking about the Purdue guy. I think his name is Johnson too but not sure. Oh. Yeah that was a bad play. But I don't think Kansas would have fouled. They were going to get the ball back with time remaining and down 1 if they got the stop. But the guy dribbled it way too much, that was bound to happen. Which goes back to Rockaway's question of why didn't JClark just dribble around at the end of the half instead of throwing a lazy pass that was intercepted for the dunk. That's why.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,390
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 18, 2012 22:17:12 GMT -5
I think we could potentially see one lottery pick in Otto or Greg by their junior or senior year. We could be lacking in the Jon Wallace department though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Markel settle in and play under control next year though. I think he still has the potential to be a very solid player for us. Throw in Nerlens, and maybe we're onto something. I would love for that to happen and certainly won't rule it out, but it would be crazy right now to say this team has the talent of the '05/'06 squad. Maybe. Just like it would have been just as crazy during III's first season to say that that Hoya squad would produce two future NBA starters.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:21:11 GMT -5
After watching the Purdue game I some how feel better. Is that wrong? We played a great game overcoming a huge obstacle with the refs taking Sims off the court. They are calling for Matt Painter's head: purdue.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=892&fid=52&style=2
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:29:11 GMT -5
Oh. Yeah that was a bad play. But I don't think Kansas would have fouled. They were going to get the ball back with time remaining and down 1 if they got the stop. But the guy dribbled it way too much, that was bound to happen. Which goes back to Rockaway's question of why didn't JClark just dribble around at the end of the half instead of throwing a lazy pass that was intercepted for the dunk. That's why. You can't use one instance in one game to back up an argument that it would always happen if we did that. You also can't blame the turnover on the fact our center was in foul trouble. Teams dribble out the clock at the end of the half and make their move towards the goal with 7-8 seconds left on the clock all the time. It's called holding for the last shot. Happens in the pros and in the college game. That can't be disputed. We don't know how to do it, and we need to learn how.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 22:31:41 GMT -5
But the guy dribbled it way too much, that was bound to happen. Which goes back to Rockaway's question of why didn't JClark just dribble around at the end of the half instead of throwing a lazy pass that was intercepted for the dunk. That's why. You can't use one instance in one game to back up an argument that it would always happen if we did that. You also can't blame the turnover on the fact our center was in foul trouble. Teams dribble out the clock at the end of the half and make their move towards the goal with 7-8 seconds left on the clock all the time. It's called holding for the last shot. Happens in the pros and in the college game. That can't be disputed. We don't know how to do it, and we need to learn how. Chris Wright could do it. Clark and Starks can't. I think Jabril can if he gets more PT.
|
|