chep3
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Post by chep3 on Jan 7, 2012 3:24:20 GMT -5
I have a feeling we're not seeing Tyler this year, and you can't help but wonder even after that. The latter part of your sentence is an enormous leap that I don't think is warranted at all. Guys get shut down all the time for a year without affecting their ability to play ball beyond then. Indeed, most of us are confident that Jeff is going to come back from surgery on his heart. Ever think they may shut Tyler down this year with 4 games played to try and redshirt him?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 7, 2012 4:26:35 GMT -5
As opposed to making snap judgments about a guy's abilities based on a few minutes of play per game in a structured offense. Oh look. I can do the stupid rolling eyes response too. By the way I don't recall claiming he was all BE quality yet. I do remember claiming his ability to score shouldn't be a problem in the future. Who's making a snap judgment? Nice strawman. You're claiming he shouldn't have trouble scoring based on his HS production. Either (a) you saw him play in high school and are basing your evaluation on that evidence, in which case you shouldn't bash people on here who only have, what, 100 minutes of playing time at the college level upon which to base their judgment, or (b) you are just looking at his HS numbers and making the leap that he will be able to produce at the college level, which is equally valid/invalid as people wanting to withhold judgment until they have a larger sample size. Either way, I fail to see the problem with someone wanting more "evidence" before judging the kid. No one is bashing him. They're simply not as willing as you to assume he'll be a star. I happen to think he looks like he has a ton of talent and will be a great player. However, I have no problem with people who want to reserve judgment. Nice. You see it wasn't that hard. Isn't it always better to present your argument in a logical, practical, non--antagonist fashion rather than with dismissive, rude and predictable sarcasm, followed up of course, with your desire to show people how deft you are at choosing an unnecessary emoticon? So now that you show me that you can play at being civil let me try a crack at it too by pointing out that your argument is a good one but you and everyone else didn't understand the reason behind my initial response. You see I never bothered to read the op's remarks so I don't care about the mistake he made nor was that mistake or his intent really important in the first place. My objection was that a certain poster in this thread is infamous on this board for being a doubter about virtually every player on the Georgetown rosters. Maybe skeptic is a more appropriate word but I feel that would be giving him too much credit. The guy is very good at quickly dousing other people's favorable beliefs of a player's abilities with his brand of cynicism and, in my opinion, arrogance, that leads him to take a viewpoint that unless he witnesses Player X or Player Y exhibiting certain traits and abilities, he will not only refuse to believe they possess such traits and abilities, he will go as far as to point out how naive the rest of us are by even suggesting that they do. Now hey if that type of skepticism works for some people so be it. I get it. On the other hand I'm one of those who take an opposite approach. I try to have faith in a player until there is concrete evidence to make me feel otherwise (likely a large sampling piled up over more than HALF A SEASON). I give players the benefit of the doubt. I also give III in these cases the benefit of a doubt as well that he did not make a mistake in terms of handing out scholarships. Sometimes in the end I too have to accept that a player is limited. But I don't want to make a rush judgment. I'm a fan after all and thus, in my view, fans support players early on and have faith in their potential and upside. At least in the beginning stages of their careers. As a result I have faith in Greg. Just as I had faith in Hollis and Markel. Just as I did with Jon and Roy when folks were claiming they may not BE caliber. Same could be said of my views early regarding guy like Vee and even someone as highly regarded as Austin, whom plenty of Hoya fans soured on after his sophomore season. I tend to support the players in that fashion rather than looking at players of other teams and salivating over them. Now I'll admit my opinions of Jeremiah's game in the end were not justified but I don't regret "defending" (for lack of a better word) his capabilities and potential back when Mr. Rivers was on the team. And my belief in Nate may in the end look just as misguided ultimately. But for now I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. And, yes, I will stick my head into a discussion from time to time when certain posters want to tell the rest of us how we are essentially a bunch of fools for having a high opinion of a player which he doesn't see as being justified. For the record I never saw Greg play in high school. But I have heard and read enough about him from people who did watch him play. The consensus from almost everyone was that he was a gifted scorer. He could dribble, he could drive, he could run the break, he could post up, he could shoot from deep and, of course, he could hit midrange jumpshots. These abilities, the skill to score buckets, more than anything else undoubtedly led to him being chosen the Player of the Year by the Washington Post even though he played for some rinky-dink school in nowheresville. I also did not attend one KL game this past summer, but if you read the posts and writeups from this board, from Hoya Report and from Casual Hoya (as well as a few blogs and countless tweets) you would have easily stumbled across several accounts describing Greg displaying his offensive arsenal during the summer. Granted he wasn't as consistent a scorer as Jabril or even Otto but those who attended games, some of whom I trust in evaluating talent, made mention of his potential to be that type of guy. III himself even compared him to Wes Johnson. Now what was Wes Johnson known for at Syracuse other than his ability to score? No, this does not mean Greg will ever reach such lofty levels. Yes, any idiot, including myself, realize that players can't always translate the abilities they display at one level to the next (higher) level. But it is way too early to come to any conclusion regarding Greg and frankly I am encouraged by the small sampling I have seen of him on offense. I suppose that makes me different from the other poster who is more of a "half empty" type of fan. Sue me. SF, now this was the rant you were expecting.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 7, 2012 5:15:48 GMT -5
Almost forgot....on the John Thompson Show JT gave Greg some seriously high praise. Considers him to be a great defender, one who can guard all positions. Said it is rare for a 6'9 guy who can guard smaller guys on the perimeter. He emphasized he wasn't simply talking about getting a hand up, he felt it is Greg's ability to move his feet that makes him unique for a guy at his height. JT said Greg has the potential as a defender to be as a good as any forward he coached when he was at Georgetown (Or as he put as good as any forward who wore the grey). Then again I do recall JT claiming that Moses was the best shotblocker he had seen since Patrick Ewing.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 7, 2012 7:19:04 GMT -5
We don't know about Moses yet; although I think his mind will change when he sees Noel
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 7, 2012 9:39:24 GMT -5
Who's making a snap judgment? Nice strawman. You're claiming he shouldn't have trouble scoring based on his HS production. Either (a) you saw him play in high school and are basing your evaluation on that evidence, in which case you shouldn't bash people on here who only have, what, 100 minutes of playing time at the college level upon which to base their judgment, or (b) you are just looking at his HS numbers and making the leap that he will be able to produce at the college level, which is equally valid/invalid as people wanting to withhold judgment until they have a larger sample size. Either way, I fail to see the problem with someone wanting more "evidence" before judging the kid. No one is bashing him. They're simply not as willing as you to assume he'll be a star. I happen to think he looks like he has a ton of talent and will be a great player. However, I have no problem with people who want to reserve judgment. Nice. You see it wasn't that hard. Isn't it always better to present your argument in a logical, practical, non--antagonist fashion rather than with dismissive, rude and predictable sarcasm, followed up of course, with your desire to show people how deft you are at choosing an unnecessary emoticon? But one is much easier, and much more fun to type
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 7, 2012 11:07:09 GMT -5
Nice. You see it wasn't that hard. Isn't it always better to present your argument in a logical, practical, non--antagonist fashion rather than with dismissive, rude and predictable sarcasm, followed up of course, with your desire to show people how deft you are at choosing an unnecessary emoticon? So now that you show me that you can play at being civil let me try a crack at it too by pointing out that your argument is a good one but you and everyone else didn't understand the reason behind my initial response. You see I never bothered to read the op's remarks so I don't care about the mistake he made nor was that mistake or his intent really important in the first place. My objection was that a certain poster in this thread is infamous on this board for being a doubter about virtually every player on the Georgetown rosters. Maybe skeptic is a more appropriate word but I feel that would be giving him too much credit. The guy is very good at quickly dousing other people's favorable beliefs of a player's abilities with his brand of cynicism and, in my opinion, arrogance, that leads him to take a viewpoint that unless he witnesses Player X or Player Y exhibiting certain traits and abilities, he will not only refuse to believe they possess such traits and abilities, he will go as far as to point out how naive the rest of us are by even suggesting that they do. Now hey if that type of skepticism works for some people so be it. I get it. On the other hand I'm one of those who take an opposite approach. I try to have faith in a player until there is concrete evidence to make me feel otherwise (likely a large sampling piled up over more than HALF A SEASON). I give players the benefit of the doubt. I also give III in these cases the benefit of a doubt as well that he did not make a mistake in terms of handing out scholarships. Sometimes in the end I too have to accept that a player is limited. But I don't want to make a rush judgment. I'm a fan after all and thus, in my view, fans support players early on and have faith in their potential and upside. At least in the beginning stages of their careers. As a result I have faith in Greg. Just as I had faith in Hollis and Markel. Just as I did with Jon and Roy when folks were claiming they may not BE caliber. Same could be said of my views early regarding guy like Vee and even someone as highly regarded as Austin, whom plenty of Hoya fans soured on after his sophomore season. I tend to support the players in that fashion rather than looking at players of other teams and salivating over them. Now I'll admit my opinions of Jeremiah's game in the end were not justified but I don't regret "defending" (for lack of a better word) his capabilities and potential back when Mr. Rivers was on the team. And my belief in Nate may in the end look just as misguided ultimately. But for now I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. And, yes, I will stick my head into a discussion from time to time when certain posters want to tell the rest of us how we are essentially a bunch of fools for having a high opinion of a player which he doesn't see as being justified. For the record I never saw Greg play in high school. But I have heard and read enough about him from people who did watch him play. The consensus from almost everyone was that he was a gifted scorer. He could dribble, he could drive, he could run the break, he could post up, he could shoot from deep and, of course, he could hit midrange jumpshots. These abilities, the skill to score buckets, more than anything else undoubtedly led to him being chosen the Player of the Year by the Washington Post even though he played for some rinky-dink school in nowheresville. I also did not attend one KL game this past summer, but if you read the posts and writeups from this board, from Hoya Report and from Casual Hoya (as well as a few blogs and countless tweets) you would have easily stumbled across several accounts describing Greg displaying his offensive arsenal during the summer. Granted he wasn't as consistent a scorer as Jabril or even Otto but those who attended games, some of whom I trust in evaluating talent, made mention of his potential to be that type of guy. III himself even compared him to Wes Johnson. Now what was Wes Johnson known for at Syracuse other than his ability to score? No, this does not mean Greg will ever reach such lofty levels. Yes, any idiot, including myself, realize that players can't always translate the abilities they display at one level to the next (higher) level. But it is way too early to come to any conclusion regarding Greg and frankly I am encouraged by the small sampling I have seen of him on offense. I suppose that makes me different from the other poster who is more of a "half empty" type of fan. Sue me. SF, now this was the rant you were expecting. WOW! Well done MCI! Even for someone known for his lengthy expositions, this one is notable. Only, it is NOT a rant. Not at all. Rather, it is a thoughtful, well-reasoned discourse in support of your thesis. I too have high hopes for Greg's career at GU...however long it may last. He has already demonstrated his extraordinary defensive abilities -- and that has to rub off positively on his teammates too. Like you, I am optimistic about his ability -- in time -- to become a far more productive contributor on the offensive end of the court too. Your posts consistently raise the level of conversation on this board, whatever topic you choose to post about. Thanks.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Jan 7, 2012 14:33:37 GMT -5
I have a feeling we're not seeing Tyler this year, and you can't help but wonder even after that. The latter part of your sentence is an enormous leap that I don't think is warranted at all. Guys get shut down all the time for a year without affecting their ability to play ball beyond then. Indeed, most of us are confident that Jeff is going to come back from surgery on his heart. Ever think they may shut Tyler down this year with 4 games played to try and redshirt him? That would seem to make sense, assuming his condition is one that allows a comeback. Personally I hope he comes back and becomes a consenus All-American, something we haven't had in a while. My worry - and that's what it is; I'm not pretending that I know anything - is that the complete silence on his part and that of the school makes one think that whatever this is could be a biggie. I agree with you about Jeff, and one difference there is that he and his people have been candid about his situation, and were candid quickly. Likewise when Austin was diagnosed, there was no shroud of secrecy. Now even public figures have a right to medical privacy, but few of us, public or private, choose to exercise it. Most sports figures do the opposite, saying something like, "hey, it's treatable, I'll be back, I can't wait to play, etc." In this case? No one is saying, and we're left to speculate and wonder. What's most important is his health, obviously. I really hope he's OK. If he's OK enough to return to basketball at a high level, so much the better! It's hard to count on it, though.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 7, 2012 15:24:24 GMT -5
Wes Johnson did not become an offensive star until his last year but developed over time. Maybe that's what JT3 was referring to when he said Greg is like Wes.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 7, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -5
False. From wikipedia:
"2006–07 As a freshman at Iowa State, Johnson was named to the Big 12 all-Rookie team and earned honorable mention freshman All-America honors after averaging 12.3 points and 7.9 rebounds, starting 30 of 31 games. Johnson's highlights from his freshman year included 14 points and 13 rebounds in win against Missouri, including the game-winner on a tip-in with 1.6 seconds left. He also scored 17 points at No. 10 Texas A&M.
2007–08Johnson missed five games and played with an injured ankle throughout the majority of the season. He still was named an honorable mention all-Big 12 selection after averaging 12.4 points and 4.0 rebounds per game. Johnson scored 20 points behind a 5-of-11 effort from 3-point range against eventual NCAA Champion Kansas.
2008–09 Johnson made the decision to transfer following the 2008 season, and selected Syracuse. Per NCAA transfer rules, he had to sit out the 2008–09 season, leaving him with two years of college eligibility."
We know how the rest goes.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 7, 2012 16:11:31 GMT -5
I think the source of that comparison (Jon Rothstein) made the quote up.
a) I don't think I can ever remember JTIII drawing comparisons to someone on his team to another player that was not at Georgetown. And even then, he hardly makes comparisons from within his own program.
B) Comparing players is Rothstein's horrible shtick.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Jan 7, 2012 16:29:04 GMT -5
Whit will have to score much more next year, and be given every opportunity to. I was just thinking about this today but if you think we lost a lot of scoring last year, think of how much we are going to lose after this year. If Hollis goes, we lose 60% of our scoring. Last year with Wright, Free and Vaughn we lost 53%.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 7, 2012 20:22:47 GMT -5
False. From wikipedia: "2006–07 As a freshman at Iowa State, Johnson was named to the Big 12 all-Rookie team and earned honorable mention freshman All-America honors after averaging 12.3 points and 7.9 rebounds, starting 30 of 31 games. Johnson's highlights from his freshman year included 14 points and 13 rebounds in win against Missouri, including the game-winner on a tip-in with 1.6 seconds left. He also scored 17 points at No. 10 Texas A&M. 2007–08Johnson missed five games and played with an injured ankle throughout the majority of the season. He still was named an honorable mention all-Big 12 selection after averaging 12.4 points and 4.0 rebounds per game. Johnson scored 20 points behind a 5-of-11 effort from 3-point range against eventual NCAA Champion Kansas. 2008–09 Johnson made the decision to transfer following the 2008 season, and selected Syracuse. Per NCAA transfer rules, he had to sit out the 2008–09 season, leaving him with two years of college eligibility." We know how the rest goes. I blew that one big time.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 10, 2012 9:34:04 GMT -5
Perhaps time to revisit his defensive prowess..at least for now.
hm
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2012 10:40:45 GMT -5
Perhaps time to revisit his defensive prowess..at least for now. hm Meh - can't really expect him to consistently cover a smaller, quicker player in man defense. The acclaim was probably a little overstated, but he can still shut down guys his size.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 10, 2012 11:25:05 GMT -5
Perhaps time to revisit his defensive prowess..at least for now. hm Meh - can't really expect him to consistently cover a smaller, quicker player in man defense. The acclaim was probably a little overstated, but he can still shut down guys his size. Yeah, he was caught between playing him close enough to allow him to close out on the jumper and backing off enough to recover on a first step. Seemed like Kilpatrick read it well and got by him when Greg was close up, leading to two blocking fouls. Still unsure why no Jabril. During one TO, Jabril was talking to III extensively before the huddle, and I said to my brother, he's an assistant coach now too?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2012 12:00:16 GMT -5
Almost gotta wonder whether there was something going on with Jabril, either physically or teaching-wise, that kept him on the bench. Would not make sense to keep our best defensive guard on the pine while they have 2 guards torching us.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 20, 2012 16:37:55 GMT -5
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 20, 2012 17:19:05 GMT -5
I think he's closer to 6'9 and the wingspan is ridiculous.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 20, 2012 17:39:34 GMT -5
I think he IS 6'9.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 20, 2012 21:19:01 GMT -5
So do I. Just wait til his jumper comes alive. He also has a dribble drive ability, which I noticed in the DePaul game, but he pulled the ball back out after starting to go baseline. I want him to take that. He had almost beaten his man and his length and hops shoulda equaled a dunk. Soon
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