guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Jul 23, 2012 11:41:28 GMT -5
In the interests of fairness to sexually abused children all over our country , we should ask the biggest protector of career pedophiles, the Catholic Church, to match the Penn State Contribution to the trust fund. Catholic Church has made more than a billion in payments to victims and victims funds, FYI. And it's still not enough. But trolling here against the Church to deflect from the heinous situation at your school just makes you seem even more pathetic.
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skyhoya
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Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 11:55:40 GMT -5
GURU, the Pathetic person is YOU. I was just trying to buid up the trust fund, because unlike Penn State the abuse continues in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the trust fund can help in future abuse cases.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jul 23, 2012 12:05:58 GMT -5
GURU, the Pathetic person is YOU. I was just trying to buid up the trust fund, because unlike Penn State the abuse continues in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the trust fund can help in future abuse cases. Been mostly staying out of this but are you on this board for any reason other than equivocation, collateral attacks, and excuses?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 23, 2012 12:18:42 GMT -5
Pretty sure they changed the football culture at SMU for more than just the short term. The NCAA didn't change SMU. A. Kenneth Pye did, and it came at a price. Pye (Georgetown Law '54) was brought over from Duke when the SMU scandal broke and the then-president abruptly resigned. Pye's approach was to tell the football alumni and trustees to go to...um, to get lost, and they did, taking away years of alumni support and civic engagement, creating a cloud over the whole institution which has only dissipated in recent years. Much of this was placed upon the shoulders of Pye, who died at the age of 63 in 1994. To this day, there is a general disconnect between SMU and the rest of Dallas--not all of which was football related, of course, but a disconnect nonetheless. By contrast, TCU and Ft. Worth are very tight and the difference is notable. SMU took a beating academically as a result of the scandal. The faculty will tell you it's better than ever, which it may be, but perceptions are what brings kids in the door. There was a time when the SMU folks fancied the Hilltop as comparable to Duke and Vanderbilt, and now there are those who would claim it's been passed over by TCU and Baylor. SMU currently accepts 60% of applicants and yields about a third, none of whom were even alive when Bobby Collins was coach. That may be the longer lasting result of the NCAA's backhanded and ill-conceived approach to this. Does the A-student in Harrisburg or Philadelphia want to hear "Why do you want to go there?" and simply apply elsewhere?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 23, 2012 12:22:23 GMT -5
As we await the next press release of arrogance and stupidity from the Paterno Clan, I think it's a whole bunch of nonsense as far as the punishment. The problem with any punishment with programs is they can't effect those who actually did the wrongdoing. Everyone who gets "punished" had nothing to do with the issue that has caused the uproar and how does that help teach a lesson? The most damaging punishment to me is taking the Paterno legacy and flushing down the toilet as the "cult" portion of PSU fans can't handle that-and that scumball put football ahead of well being of others and protected a child rapist. That was just. The rest of it is beyond worthless. My issue with the football side of the penalties--when you continue to use selective justice, and hide behind some BS about "cooperation" with schools, and ignore the extremity of the violations. So USC has Bush/Agent deal and gets hammered beyond belief with Paul Dee telling them "they should comply like my school does". How did that work out when we see what is going on with Miami and what happened previously under Dee? USC was told about "need to be involved and know what is going on with a high profile athlete"--like say Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor, Trent Richardson, Oregon's FB program, LSU's FB program, and let's not forget the integrity of what a college education should be about--and you have UNC debacle--with a fake African Studies classes that didn't exist, and several athletes (FB and Basketball) getting degrees in the Major and class never existed, not to mention a coach well known for being dirty (John Blake) directing players to Agent functions and brokering deals-along with the Head Coach (Butch Davis) having his nanny do papers for players and turn them in. So why do some schools get hammered and others don't? We hear it's due to "cooperation" but the new PSU leadership cooperated. They had nothing to do with what a disgusting/arrogant man did in putting FB ahead of safety of children and the Administration the same--who will receive their punishment in the legal system. So Bill O'Brien suffers? Kids who didn't do anything or know about this suffer? The statement being made is? Anyone who says coaches didn't know what was going on or at least hear rumors is a bafoon. Coaching Community is like church goers at brunch--gossip, gossip, and more gossip. The amount of stories those who talk/deal with these guys can share is either stunning and sickening or about what you expect--depending on how you view things. Drug use, cheating on wives, gambling, tanking games to cover debts, stealing, cover ups for crimes of their staff members/players, etc......happen monthly yet our society always has this view of these guys as being "above" rest of people because.....they are on tv? I mean it's laughable the length that people will go to defend people they don't know and always assume that someone who is critical does so without any knowledge about the person/people involved. Penn State learned a lesson we all know but often ignore; when you put someone on a pedastal, don't be surprised when they disappoint you and fall short of expectations. Paterno was part of that embarrassing egomaniacal race for all time D1 wins with Bobby Bowden. While Paterno's crime was disgusting--Bowden didn't do much better. Crimes that were ignored or laughed off (always funny when your Kicker drops Date Rape Drug in girls drinks locally and you call it Polish Rules......to make him run stadiums) guys beating the crap out of students at parties, drug dealing, going to funeral of a fallen player (DeVaughn Darling) and saying "I've never had a player work himself to death...."--which the Darling family didn't appreciate and rest of people who filled the service were stunned Bowden would even mutter. He always talked of the "old days" when coaches would talk with police and handle things----but Bowden didn't get that didn't make the old days correct. Paterno did the same and while these two were highly successful in their professions, they also showed how maniacal they were in their race to get the All Time wins. Both put themselves ahead of their program and wanted the backpay for what they felt they were owed. Pride/Arrogance is shown--be it early/late-but the price you pay is in the hit to the "legend" and to me that is biggest punishment men like that and their families/fans suffer. Once the legend dies and you find out they are no different then the people you place them above (in Paterno's case he publicly fired shots at Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill) and it's a wake up call. I'm fine with whatever Penn State gets. Its a PR decision either way, but football teams are PR. They don't actually serve a purpose beyond that really, so whatever "fits" is what the public wants not some cosmic justice. The only justice is Sandusky's punishment and it can never be enough. The fact is this is Christmas for the NCAA. They get to act "stern" and dish out "harsh punishments" for something that will never, ever, ever happen again because the premise of this entire situation is almost impossible to re-create. The rest of their actual job, you know that student-athlete one, can remain as it always has been...one of complete disregard as long as the money rolls in. When I saw the Penn State story on ESPN followed by an Auburn preview, I cringed. Oh by the way, don't glorify football everyone...up next a 10-minute preview of a team where the kids make $200k a year and take lawn bowling for credits.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 12:27:06 GMT -5
GURU, the Pathetic person is YOU. I was just trying to buid up the trust fund, because unlike Penn State the abuse continues in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the trust fund can help in future abuse cases. Been mostly staying out of this but are you on this board for any reason other than equivocation, collateral attacks, and excuses? No rather, I enjoy being on the opposite side of kchoya. Sometimes, I think some members of the board think that their opinion is the only ones. Glad to hear your comments, I don't agree with what you said, but I respect your right to sayit.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,450
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Post by TC on Jul 23, 2012 12:44:10 GMT -5
The NCAA didn't change SMU. A. Kenneth Pye did, and it came at a price. Pye (Georgetown Law '54) was brought over from Duke when the SMU scandal broke and the then-president abruptly resigned. Pye's approach was to tell the football alumni and trustees to go to...um, to get lost, and they did, taking away years of alumni support and civic engagement, creating a cloud over the whole institution which has only dissipated in recent years. Take away football, and you've taken away the power of the boosters. Don't take away football, I'm not sure Pye or anyone else is able to control SMU.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Jul 23, 2012 13:04:04 GMT -5
GURU, the Pathetic person is YOU. I was just trying to buid up the trust fund, because unlike Penn State the abuse continues in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the trust fund can help in future abuse cases. Perhaps it can. And perhaps you might want to cool off before continuing to post on this. You're making very little sense. Just a thought.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 23, 2012 13:30:49 GMT -5
Treaty of Versailles like penalties.
Oh well, never liked them anyway or their vanilla uniforms.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 17:30:52 GMT -5
As we await the next press release of arrogance and stupidity from the Paterno Clan, I think it's a whole bunch of nonsense as far as the punishment. The problem with any punishment with programs is they can't effect those who actually did the wrongdoing. Everyone who gets "punished" had nothing to do with the issue that has caused the uproar and how does that help teach a lesson? The most damaging punishment to me is taking the Paterno legacy and flushing down the toilet as the "cult" portion of PSU fans can't handle that-and that scumball put football ahead of well being of others and protected a child rapist. That was just. The rest of it is beyond worthless. My issue with the football side of the penalties--when you continue to use selective justice, and hide behind some BS about "cooperation" with schools, and ignore the extremity of the violations. So USC has Bush/Agent deal and gets hammered beyond belief with Paul Dee telling them "they should comply like my school does". How did that work out when we see what is going on with Miami and what happened previously under Dee? USC was told about "need to be involved and know what is going on with a high profile athlete"--like say Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor, Trent Richardson, Oregon's FB program, LSU's FB program, and let's not forget the integrity of what a college education should be about--and you have UNC debacle--with a fake African Studies classes that didn't exist, and several athletes (FB and Basketball) getting degrees in the Major and class never existed, not to mention a coach well known for being dirty (John Blake) directing players to Agent functions and brokering deals-along with the Head Coach (Butch Davis) having his nanny do papers for players and turn them in. So why do some schools get hammered and others don't? We hear it's due to "cooperation" but the new PSU leadership cooperated. They had nothing to do with what a disgusting/arrogant man did in putting FB ahead of safety of children and the Administration the same--who will receive their punishment in the legal system. So Bill O'Brien suffers? Kids who didn't do anything or know about this suffer? The statement being made is? Anyone who says coaches didn't know what was going on or at least hear rumors is a bafoon. Coaching Community is like church goers at brunch--gossip, gossip, and more gossip. The amount of stories those who talk/deal with these guys can share is either stunning and sickening or about what you expect--depending on how you view things. Drug use, cheating on wives, gambling, tanking games to cover debts, stealing, cover ups for crimes of their staff members/players, etc......happen monthly yet our society always has this view of these guys as being "above" rest of people because.....they are on tv? I mean it's laughable the length that people will go to defend people they don't know and always assume that someone who is critical does so without any knowledge about the person/people involved. Penn State learned a lesson we all know but often ignore; when you put someone on a pedastal, don't be surprised when they disappoint you and fall short of expectations. Paterno was part of that embarrassing egomaniacal race for all time D1 wins with Bobby Bowden. While Paterno's crime was disgusting--Bowden didn't do much better. Crimes that were ignored or laughed off (always funny when your Kicker drops Date Rape Drug in girls drinks locally and you call it Polish Rules......to make him run stadiums) guys beating the crap out of students at parties, drug dealing, going to funeral of a fallen player (DeVaughn Darling) and saying "I've never had a player work himself to death...."--which the Darling family didn't appreciate and rest of people who filled the service were stunned Bowden would even mutter. He always talked of the "old days" when coaches would talk with police and handle things----but Bowden didn't get that didn't make the old days correct. Paterno did the same and while these two were highly successful in their professions, they also showed how maniacal they were in their race to get the All Time wins. Both put themselves ahead of their program and wanted the backpay for what they felt they were owed. Pride/Arrogance is shown--be it early/late-but the price you pay is in the hit to the "legend" and to me that is biggest punishment men like that and their families/fans suffer. Once the legend dies and you find out they are no different then the people you place them above (in Paterno's case he publicly fired shots at Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill) and it's a wake up call. Well RDF, I'm not sure what you're advocating here. It seems you feel that the semi-informed barbed wire whipping party for Joe Paterno is the only righteous outcome of these events. For me, that's the weakest link. You characterize the "egomaniacal race for all time D1 wins with Bobby Bowden", when that was merely a media take on two older successful coaches who were still coaching. Are all old folks still working in the egomaniacal pursuit of something? Why don't we stick with what we know. Whatever the motivation, the President, AD and Head Coach of the Football team kept shocking allegations of child rape from the appropriate authorities, allowing the perpetrator to continue committing his crimes. For that, Penn State deserves punishment. They still get to field a team, go to the Stadium seven or so Saturdays a year, and watch their team on T.V.. I was expecting the "death penalty", what with the legions of shrieking moralists demanding action before the full finding of fact. The sanctions are tough, but not out of hand. All of the stuff about the "culture" is complete BS, this was not something within the known character of those who covered up. That is precisely why it was a shock. Anyway, hopefully the money will do some good, and the attention to this case will flush out some more perps, the rest is meaningless.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Jul 23, 2012 17:56:23 GMT -5
Known character? Character is displayed by what you do when no one is looking. Now we know Paterno's character.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 18:40:32 GMT -5
Elvado, I understand that the mishandling of Sandusky, the coverup of his deeds, for whatever the motivation, was wrong. Everyone knows that. Do you believe that this situation also "tells the lie" of Paterno and Penn State, that all of the graduation rates, and kids being recruited for the academics along with the football, was always a sham to provide a suitable background for Paterno to eventually provide cover for whatever misdeed happened along, in this case Jerry Sandusky's pedophilia? I apparently struck out earlier with the Charles Smith analogy, let me try another. You seem to be a religious fellow, I do not know the faith you practice, it is none of my business and I am not in any way trying to belittle or aHA anything in that regard. I am curious though, do you feel that the Roman Catholic Church is as bereft of goodness as Paterno and Penn State in light of their similar problems with pedophilia?
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Elvado
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Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Jul 23, 2012 18:50:07 GMT -5
The institution, no. However the individuals both pedophiles and those who cocered for them, yes. However, my judhment is of no moment. One much more powerful than I gets that job.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 23, 2012 18:53:34 GMT -5
The punishment from the NCAA is disgustingly light, considering the crimes. As a minimum Penn State should have gotten the death penalty for two years. As a maximum they should indefinitely have been kicked out of Division I football and forbidden from playing any NCAA teams. Removing records is a slap on the wrist. Reducing scholarships is a slap on the other wrist. The money fine: big deal.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 19:14:36 GMT -5
The institution, no. However the individuals both pedophiles and those who cocered for them, yes. However, my judhment is of no moment. One much more powerful than I gets that job. What, are you in politics or something? What a dodge! I value your judgments and thinking. When I read the strongly held opinions of so many of the people I have enjoyed as a lurker over the years in more conventional Hoya topics, it means something to me. RDF, guru, kc, Elvado et al., thats why I come here in the first place, not to sound like I care more about a football coach than a helpless child, which I can assure all of you, I don't. Miracles'87 is a tribute to my favorite Hoya squad, the paramilitary unit known as Reggie and the Miracles. In the context of this discussion, it sounds like its short for Miracles, Unicorns, Glitter and Clowns, and that stinks. So come on Elvado, let me know that you think that Paterno was a good man who Editeded up, not a finally exposed bad man. It's ok, Coach Thompson and I have your back!
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jul 23, 2012 19:18:02 GMT -5
The punishment from the NCAA is disgustingly light, considering the crimes. As a minimum Penn State should have gotten the death penalty for two years. As a maximum they should indefinitely have been kicked out of Division I football and forbidden from playing any NCAA teams. Removing records is a slap on the wrist. Reducing scholarships is a slap on the other wrist. The money fine: big deal. They are basically going to be a FCS team in the Big Ten until at least 2020. That's a pretty big punishment, especially since it only hurts people that had nothing to do with the actual crimes.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jul 23, 2012 19:20:04 GMT -5
The punishment from the NCAA is disgustingly light, considering the crimes. As a minimum Penn State should have gotten the death penalty for two years. As a maximum they should indefinitely have been kicked out of Division I football and forbidden from playing any NCAA teams. Removing records is a slap on the wrist. Reducing scholarships is a slap on the other wrist. The money fine: big deal. You do know that the perpetrator is going to jail for multiple life times; there will be millions of dollars handed out in civil suits; and everyone involved is losing their jobs if not more. Additionally there is a possibility that PSU will lose federal funding, which is a much bigger problem for them that losing their football team. The death penalty only serves to eliminate millions of dollars in scholarships for students who may not have been able to go to school otherwise. And it would ruin many small businesses in State College that depend on the money that 7 home games a year provides. And there is the possibility that Penn State would have to cut other sports teams because of budget short falls. I dont think this is the best, most constructive punishment that the NCAA could have handed out. But the Death Penalty does nothing but hurt innocent people. We have to remember that for all the vile, disgusting behavior that has been revealed at Penn State, none of what I have read have been NCAA violations (if this is wrong let me know).
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 23, 2012 19:32:41 GMT -5
Okay Miracles. Paterno was confronted with the chance to do right and save children or do wrong and save his image. We know how he chose. He is garbage in my opinion. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins foe a reason
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 19:52:58 GMT -5
I was hoping you saw a little something good in there still, but as I said, I respect and accept your opinion.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,209
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 23, 2012 20:59:02 GMT -5
miracles, I've got your back. Months ago, I posted that the Paterno saga reminded me of a Shakespearean tragedy. Does Paterno's f'ing up in this case override all of the good that he did? I think without a doubt it does, but Paterno's not Hitler. He really did accomplish lots of good things for Penn State during his tenure there. His legacy is deservedly trashed, but that's what makes his failing Shakespearean in nature. I don't believe that Paterno was idolized in Happy Valley merely because his teams won a lot of football games. If he were John Calipari in cleats, I'd have no sympathy for him at all, but that's not the case.
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