Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 23, 2012 10:16:28 GMT -5
Not a bit. However, given a chance to react to this horror, they camped out to defend a statue. Turn off the Kool Aid tap. Joe Paterno acted the part of patron saint. It was quite an act. How can any adult want to support that program now?
If this ever happened at GU, I would never, repeat never, watch or support the team again. Case closed.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jul 23, 2012 10:17:25 GMT -5
Well, hopefully the team being terrible for the foreseeable future will help those wackos get some perspective. And I would think the hardest thing for the PSU faithful about the ban will be the vacating of all those wins, and the fact that the school is now the most scandal-riddled in NCAA history. The place was aw-shucks, holier-than-thou for so long, and so self-righteous, that being exposed like this has to hurt a lot. guru, are you sure you are not the whack job for being so dismissive of Penn State fans desire to separate the good of something they love from the evil? Where do you derive the authority to present rigid guidelines for how people process devastating information about their loved ones? Do you really think it hurts more for a Penn State fan to vacate wins, than acknowledge that one of our programs greatest figures was a child molester? Let me tell you, it doesn't. How did you feel about Charles Smith? Did you instantly, upon hearing of his committing vehicular homicide and leaving the scene, hate him? Were you driven in your feelings about Smith by the comments of Syracuse fans? Are you ashamed for having rooted for Smith's Hoyas teams? Did you stop rooting for GTown after that? Your questions are reflective of your emotional state. Understandable. I have spoken with a lot of PSU fans since this thing broke, and I think vacating the wins - and what it does to Paterno's ranking on the all-time victories list, etc. - is very tough for them to swallow. Maybe that's not the case for you. Bravo if so. But in my experience not many of your fellow fans compartmentalize as well as you do. As for the Charles Smith stuff... wait, what? We're comparing a hit and run to the premeditated, serial raping of children? Sorry, no. I suppose if Charles Smith had spent 15 or more years driving around hitting and killing people and leaving the scene — AND the Georgetown coach knew of his propensity to do so and participated in a conspiracy to cover it — maybe then the situations would be close. But, well, just no.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 23, 2012 10:18:51 GMT -5
The B1G only took the post season share from PSU, no balls I don't know. That's pretty significant to me. The update I saw (and I haven't been able to confirm yet with a news source) said they also took away eligibility for the championship game, which makes sense. That update indicated that they didn't take away TV, but other than that, what did you want them to do? Or did you want them to kick PSU out?
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jul 23, 2012 10:23:12 GMT -5
Im glad they punished the people really responsible for this: 60 college or perspective college athletes (45 of whom havent even set foot on campus).
If you honestly believe this will change the "football culture" that created this mess, then I got a bridge to sell you. It will change at Penn St. because the team wont be as good, but only for a little while. Every game will still sell out next year, and in 6-10 years when they program returns to where it is now all the stories will be about Penn St.'s return to greatness.
The problem at Penn State was that everyone thought this was someone else's responsibility. That they could pass the buck and someone else would take the blame. This is a problem at many big time programs (and big companies as well). None of today's sanctions change that culture at any other school. Administrators arent scared of losing scholarship and bowl bans. If they were than SMU would have scared everyone straight, but just this week Miami gets caught doing the same thing they did last year, but with a new coach and staff.
If you want to make these school presidents and adminstrators work to right these wrongs at their schools before they are punished you have to make them responsible for problem. But the NCAA never wants to blame directly the presidents and administrators who allow many violations because the presidents run the NCAA.
Emmert should have laid blame squarely with Spanier and the other administrators. Emmert should have said that any school who hires these people will receive some such punishment (loss of scholarship, post season bans etc.). That sends a message to the school presidents that they are responsible for their programs too. And that they will be punished personally for the violations their school commits. That is how you change cultures at other school before something so terrible like this happens again.
Many are praising the NCAA and particularly Emmert for how swiftly and strongly they acted today. Well there are two more programs that have been caught in violations since Penn St.: UNC and Miami. Lets see if all this tough talk is there when the non-sports news cameras arent there for the press conference on the punishments for these two schools. Im not holding my breath.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jul 23, 2012 10:30:48 GMT -5
Im glad they punished the people really responsible for this: 60 college or perspective college athletes (45 of whom havent even set foot on campus). If you honestly believe this will change the "football culture" that created this mess, then I got a bridge to sell you. It will change at Penn St. because the team wont be as good, but only for a little while. Every game will still sell out next year, and in 6-10 years when they program returns to where it is now all the stories will be about Penn St.'s return to greatness. The problem at Penn State was that everyone thought this was someone else's responsibility. That they could pass the buck and someone else would take the blame. This is a problem at many big time programs (and big companies as well). None of today's sanctions change that culture at any other school. Administrators arent scared of losing scholarship and bowl bans. If they were than SMU would have scared everyone straight, but just this week Miami gets caught doing the same thing they did last year, but with a new coach and staff. If you want to make these school presidents and adminstrators work to right these wrongs at their schools before they are punished you have to make them responsible for problem. But the NCAA never wants to blame directly the presidents and administrators who allow many violations because the presidents run the NCAA. Emmert should have laid blame squarely with Spanier and the other administrators. Emmert should have said that any school who hires these people will receive some such punishment (loss of scholarship, post season bans etc.). That sends a message to the school presidents that they are responsible for their programs too. And that they will be punished personally for the violations their school commits. That is how you change cultures at other school before something so terrible like this happens again. Many are praising the NCAA and particularly Emmert for how swiftly and strongly they acted today. Well there are two more programs that have been caught in violations since Penn St.: UNC and Miami. Lets see if all this tough talk is there when the non-sports news cameras arent there for the press conference on the punishments for these two schools. Im not holding my breath. Actually, the problem at Penn State was that a coach was raping boys in the showers of the practice facility. For decades.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:33:35 GMT -5
The starting QB for JoePa's last win...
Mike McQueary.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:37:52 GMT -5
Box, they could have kicked them out, or worse, taken away all their home hames.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:38:07 GMT -5
I think the NCAA has missed the forest for the trees. The purpose of colleges is to provide an education, not to be the minor leagues for professional sports. To be realistic about it, less than a half a dozen PSU players ever make a pro training camp each year and only a couple players last more than one year. So allowing all the players to transfer at- will, is in effect the NCAA saying that college football is the minor league for the pro teams. Why would anyone who is half way through a successful college academic program want to go somewhere else? PSU does represent a pipeline to Hampton for troublesome defensive linemen, but they could already play there without penalty. I am sure Robert Bolden SR is talking to everyone about taking his son. He is now third on the depth chart as a junior after being the first true freshmen to ever start at QB at PSU. Hello, Detroit, take your favorite son back.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:39:53 GMT -5
How did you feel about Charles Smith? Did you instantly, upon hearing of his committing vehicular homicide and leaving the scene, hate him? Were you driven in your feelings about Smith by the comments of Syracuse fans? Are you ashamed for having rooted for Smith's Hoyas teams? Did you stop rooting for GTown after that? How thoroughly moral are you? Sandusky and Charles Smith - totally the same. We get it, you're a PSU apologist and you drank the blue kool-aid. Your attempts to rationalize everything only serve to paint you in a worse light. I guarantee that the victims who were molested are not feeling any better today. Jiminy crickets kc, is it not enough for a Penn State fan to hope that this is the beginning of the end of the scandal, and the start of something good coming out of this? I only bring up Smith in an attempt to analogize the pain caused from one of our heros messing up. Of course, it ain't even in the same universe as Sandusky, I am merely asking Hoya fans who undoubtedly remember how awful it was for an all-time great Hoya to screw up so badly, and open up a good thing, Hoya B-Ball and our love of it, to negativity from others. Did you let the views of others, who couldn't give a crap about Smith or GTown, define how you felt about his situation? Because that is precisely what many of you seem to require. That a member of the Penn State family act as if those ties, and that love, means nothing. Do you get shouted out of your feelings?
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 23, 2012 10:41:25 GMT -5
If you honestly believe this will change the "football culture" that created this mess, then I got a bridge to sell you. Pretty sure they changed the football culture at SMU for more than just the short term. This is a ridiculous argument since Spanier will never again be employed by a DI school ever again anyway, and because he's probably been parachuted to the extent that it doesn't matter. The problem is not single people, it's an institutional one when people are camping out to try to save a statue.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:44:55 GMT -5
So the last 13 years of Penn State football just got swept under the rug as if they never happened? Congratulations PSU, you just got paternoed.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 23, 2012 10:45:15 GMT -5
Box, they could have kicked them out, or worse, taken away all their home hames. OK. Those would have indeed been pretty harsh (as would taking away TV, but I don't think they could've done that unless the NCAA also did, not sure). I think the conference did an OK job, but I'm not really going to gainsay anyone who thinks the punishment should've been more harsh. I don't think kicking them out of the league is a justified or practical punishment, but that's just my opinon.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:48:44 GMT -5
guru, are you sure you are not the whack job for being so dismissive of Penn State fans desire to separate the good of something they love from the evil? Where do you derive the authority to present rigid guidelines for how people process devastating information about their loved ones? Do you really think it hurts more for a Penn State fan to vacate wins, than acknowledge that one of our programs greatest figures was a child molester? Let me tell you, it doesn't. How did you feel about Charles Smith? Did you instantly, upon hearing of his committing vehicular homicide and leaving the scene, hate him? Were you driven in your feelings about Smith by the comments of Syracuse fans? Are you ashamed for having rooted for Smith's Hoyas teams? Did you stop rooting for GTown after that? Your questions are reflective of your emotional state. Understandable. I have spoken with a lot of PSU fans since this thing broke, and I think vacating the wins - and what it does to Paterno's ranking on the all-time victories list, etc. - is very tough for them to swallow. Maybe that's not the case for you. Bravo if so. But in my experience not many of your fellow fans compartmentalize as well as you do. As for the Charles Smith stuff... wait, what? We're comparing a hit and run to the premeditated, serial raping of children? Sorry, no. I suppose if Charles Smith had spent 15 or more years driving around hitting and killing people and leaving the scene — AND the Georgetown coach knew of his propensity to do so and participated in a conspiracy to cover it — maybe then the situations would be close. But, well, just no. Thank you for your understanding. Seriously. I really hope that something good can come of this, maybe that $60 mil will mean that, finally, Penn State will stop a child from being abused somewhere... FWIW, I just had a knock down drag out with my Dad, who I must admit, seems to be running for Mayor of Whackville, who is disappointingly concerned with the wins, and believing that Penn State should fight the sanctions. Ugh. He is a retired attorney who fights everything to the death, so I'm not surprised, but ugh...
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 23, 2012 10:50:06 GMT -5
I think the NCAA has missed the forest for the trees. The purpose of colleges is to provide an education, not to be the minor leagues for professional sports. To be realistic about it, less than a half a dozen PSU players ever make a pro training camp each year and only a couple players last more than one year. So allowing all the players to transfer at- will, is in effect the NCAA saying that college football is the minor league for the pro teams. Shorter skyhoya : it is unfair that we can't we trap these kids inside of this crime infested, ineligible excuse for a program.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:51:46 GMT -5
So the last 13 years of Penn State football just got swept under the rug as if they never happened? Congratulations PSU, you just got paternoed. rosslynhoya, in the unlikely event you can see this, because a man of your obvious intelligence would have likely blocked me after my ridiculous attack on your last post, I would like to apologize to you for my outburst. I had just spent a couple hours reading everyone's reaction to the Freeh Report, and your post was my first opportunity to lash out and make a complete ass of myself.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:53:41 GMT -5
The starting QB for JoePa's last win... Mike McQueary. And his biggest loss... What an ugly piece of synchronicity..
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jul 23, 2012 11:14:18 GMT -5
If you honestly believe this will change the "football culture" that created this mess, then I got a bridge to sell you. Pretty sure they changed the football culture at SMU for more than just the short term.[\quote] And it sure prevented every other school from committing violations for the history of college athletics. Oh wait, no it didnt do that at all. And that was my point. The damage has already been done at PSU, you cant undo that no matter how many scholarships you take away or how much money you make them pay. You have to create penalties which will scare University admins into not allowing a cover up ever again. Which leads too... Its a symbolic measure. Just as vacating the wins of a dead man, and taking down his statue are a symbolic measure. You are sending a message to other NCAA presidents that they will now be punished. Look at Miami- they get caught last year and Donna Shalala is clearly implicated in the violations but nothing is done, and she in the past has been on the NCAA enforcement committe. Now they get caught doing the same exact thing. She should be punished. This is also a punishment at that I have pushed for Calipari to receive. He has done the same thing at two schools. But has received now punishments personally. Punishments should be applied to him, not the school he did it at. The problem was not single person, no. It was about a dozen people all named in the Freeh report. Im not sure what miracles or sky did to allow Sandusky to rape children, unless being a fan of the team did that. You are fan of Georgetown, when Georgetown gets caught up in a scandal like this, ill be sure to throw you under the bus too. I dont see how what the NCAA did today does anything to prevent another cover up by a school. All it did was to put a value on that cover up. There is really nothing worse that what happened at Penn St., so essentially the NCAA is saying this is the worst punishment you are going to get. So now the value proposition is easy: "Is this violation and coverup worth more to me and my school that $60 mil, 4 year bowl ban, and 15 schollies a year?"
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jul 23, 2012 11:17:28 GMT -5
Actually, the problem at Penn State was that a coach was raping boys in the showers of the practice facility. For decades. And if Joe Pa had gone to the police the first time he heard about it then we would be having this conversation right?
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 11:31:19 GMT -5
In the interests of fairness to sexually abused children all over our country , we should ask the biggest protector of career pedophiles, the Catholic Church, to match the Penn State Contribution to the trust fund.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jul 23, 2012 11:38:31 GMT -5
As we await the next press release of arrogance and stupidity from the Paterno Clan, I think it's a whole bunch of nonsense as far as the punishment. The problem with any punishment with programs is they can't effect those who actually did the wrongdoing. Everyone who gets "punished" had nothing to do with the issue that has caused the uproar and how does that help teach a lesson? The most damaging punishment to me is taking the Paterno legacy and flushing down the toilet as the "cult" portion of PSU fans can't handle that-and that scumball put football ahead of well being of others and protected a child rapist. That was just. The rest of it is beyond worthless. My issue with the football side of the penalties--when you continue to use selective justice, and hide behind some BS about "cooperation" with schools, and ignore the extremity of the violations. So USC has Bush/Agent deal and gets hammered beyond belief with Paul Dee telling them "they should comply like my school does". How did that work out when we see what is going on with Miami and what happened previously under Dee? USC was told about "need to be involved and know what is going on with a high profile athlete"--like say Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor, Trent Richardson, Oregon's FB program, LSU's FB program, and let's not forget the integrity of what a college education should be about--and you have UNC debacle--with a fake African Studies classes that didn't exist, and several athletes (FB and Basketball) getting degrees in the Major and class never existed, not to mention a coach well known for being dirty (John Blake) directing players to Agent functions and brokering deals-along with the Head Coach (Butch Davis) having his nanny do papers for players and turn them in. So why do some schools get hammered and others don't? We hear it's due to "cooperation" but the new PSU leadership cooperated. They had nothing to do with what a disgusting/arrogant man did in putting FB ahead of safety of children and the Administration the same--who will receive their punishment in the legal system. So Bill O'Brien suffers? Kids who didn't do anything or know about this suffer? The statement being made is? Anyone who says coaches didn't know what was going on or at least hear rumors is a bafoon. Coaching Community is like church goers at brunch--gossip, gossip, and more gossip. The amount of stories those who talk/deal with these guys can share is either stunning and sickening or about what you expect--depending on how you view things. Drug use, cheating on wives, gambling, tanking games to cover debts, stealing, cover ups for crimes of their staff members/players, etc......happen monthly yet our society always has this view of these guys as being "above" rest of people because.....they are on tv? I mean it's laughable the length that people will go to defend people they don't know and always assume that someone who is critical does so without any knowledge about the person/people involved. Penn State learned a lesson we all know but often ignore; when you put someone on a pedastal, don't be surprised when they disappoint you and fall short of expectations. Paterno was part of that embarrassing egomaniacal race for all time D1 wins with Bobby Bowden. While Paterno's crime was disgusting--Bowden didn't do much better. Crimes that were ignored or laughed off (always funny when your Kicker drops Date Rape Drug in girls drinks locally and you call it Polish Rules......to make him run stadiums) guys beating the crap out of students at parties, drug dealing, going to funeral of a fallen player (DeVaughn Darling) and saying "I've never had a player work himself to death...."--which the Darling family didn't appreciate and rest of people who filled the service were stunned Bowden would even mutter. He always talked of the "old days" when coaches would talk with police and handle things----but Bowden didn't get that didn't make the old days correct. Paterno did the same and while these two were highly successful in their professions, they also showed how maniacal they were in their race to get the All Time wins. Both put themselves ahead of their program and wanted the backpay for what they felt they were owed. Pride/Arrogance is shown--be it early/late-but the price you pay is in the hit to the "legend" and to me that is biggest punishment men like that and their families/fans suffer. Once the legend dies and you find out they are no different then the people you place them above (in Paterno's case he publicly fired shots at Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill) and it's a wake up call.
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