kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 22, 2012 13:10:53 GMT -5
If it is not the death penalty, then there might not be much effect. Bowl money is nothing if the G1G doesn't boot them out because their revenue stays the same under contract. The loss of scholiast isn't really that big because the alumnus will just reprogram their scholarship money to "needs based athletes" and they can get most of players covered. If the B1G boots them out, them when the TV sanctions go away, NBC will be right there with a Norte Dame deal. You're delusional which is about right for a proud friend and supporter of JoePa. +409
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 22, 2012 20:41:10 GMT -5
Look for police on horseback next week in State College.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 23, 2012 8:20:14 GMT -5
You're delusional which is about right for a proud friend and supporter of JoePa. +409 Actually, it should be 409 - (1998 through 2011). ;D
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 23, 2012 8:23:33 GMT -5
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jul 23, 2012 8:30:06 GMT -5
wow. it's going to take them at least 10+ years to be relevant again, if ever.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 23, 2012 8:37:47 GMT -5
Actually, it should be 409 - (1998 through 2011). ;D New standings according to my math: Bobby Bowden has the most wins in D-IA Eddie Robinson has the most wins in Division I. John Gagliardi (DIII St. John's) remains the winningest coach in CFB.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 23, 2012 8:43:32 GMT -5
The weird part is going to be this season. Penn State plays Ohio on September 1st - you wonder what the reaction of the crowd will be.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 23, 2012 8:43:56 GMT -5
Punishment seems fair.
The big topic on sports talk radio seems to be whether this is worse than the death penalty. From what I've heard, the argument seems to be that this is worse than a 2 year death penalty, and I'm just not understanding the reasoning behind that. I'm not making the argument that the death penalty should have been handed down or that this penalty was unfair, I just don't see how the loss of X number of scholarships and bowl appearances for 4 years is worse than shutting the entire program down for 2 years.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 8:47:51 GMT -5
The sanctions have little teeth. The bowl band has no financial effect because it’s the B1G with equal revenue sharing, unless they boot PSU out. The fine is only money. The recruiting classes are limited to 15 for four years.
The only thing that it affects is recruiting, because there is no possibility of playing in the football final four. What was the possibility of that happening under a new coach?
Scholarships aren’t really a big deal at Penn State. When I was injured, I lost my athletic scholarship, but a scholarship was made available to me. Rodney serves at the pleasure of the BOT.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jul 23, 2012 8:51:52 GMT -5
Well, hopefully the team being terrible for the foreseeable future will help those wackos get some perspective. And I would think the hardest thing for the PSU faithful about the ban will be the vacating of all those wins, and the fact that the school is now the most scandal-riddled in NCAA history. The place was aw-shucks, holier-than-thou for so long, and so self-righteous, that being exposed like this has to hurt a lot.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 23, 2012 8:51:53 GMT -5
Punishment seems fair. The big topic on sports talk radio seems to be whether this is worse than the death penalty. From what I've heard, the argument seems to be that this is worse than a 2 year death penalty, and I'm just not understanding the reasoning behind that. I'm not making the argument that the death penalty should have been handed down or that this penalty was unfair, I just don't see how the loss of X number of scholarships and bowl appearances for 4 years is worse than shutting the entire program down for 2 years. Note that SMU's team was only shut down for one season - the university chose to shut it down for a second. This year doesn't matter - they've got their full scholarship complement. Assuming that no one else transfers - a big if - they've got a full team. The fun starts next year. The sanctions were significant, and the scholarship reductions provide a massive drain on players. For four years, any top-notch player won't be able to play in a bowl (and, in the future, play for a national championship). They are crippling. I still would have preferred the death penalty since it forces all players to transfer and forces the program to rebuild from scratch. This does not - PSU can keep on going at 2-10 for a few years, and then come back in 2017. If they have good enough coaching, they won't be crippled for a decade.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 23, 2012 8:56:31 GMT -5
This is why the NCAA is so weak these days--they say it's not punitive, but all their actions are punitive. 60 scholarships isn't "corrective", it's merely a chance to say they're doing something.
Emmert et al. really don't know what to do with this, and it shows.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 23, 2012 9:07:57 GMT -5
Punishment seems fair. The big topic on sports talk radio seems to be whether this is worse than the death penalty. From what I've heard, the argument seems to be that this is worse than a 2 year death penalty, and I'm just not understanding the reasoning behind that. I'm not making the argument that the death penalty should have been handed down or that this penalty was unfair, I just don't see how the loss of X number of scholarships and bowl appearances for 4 years is worse than shutting the entire program down for 2 years. I agree, and it's telling that the NCAA president felt the need to say that the punishment is "greater than any other seen in NCAA history" during the press conference. If it were, he wouldn't have to say anything. Think of it like riding a bicycle. It's a lot more difficult to stop and restart a bike in high gear than it is to pedal slowly for a few yards in high gear. I would guess this also means that Penn State will continue to share in B10 television revenues and perhaps even be featured on the B10 network. I'm not sure if death penalty sanctions would have prevented that, but it seems more likely that they would have. (For the record, I'm not advocating for the death penalty, just saying that I don't see this punishment as being worse. The spin machine seems to be whirring at a particularly high rate this morning.)
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jul 23, 2012 9:20:54 GMT -5
the B1G is having a presser at 11am to announce its own sanctions. i assume a ban from the title game. what else more could they do short of kicking them out.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 23, 2012 9:38:27 GMT -5
the B1G is having a presser at 11am to announce its own sanctions. i assume a ban from the title game. what else more could they do short of kicking them out. They could restrict or remove the post-season revenue sharing that sky indicated above. And I expect they will.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 9:54:39 GMT -5
I hope that victim #1, and Victim #1's Mom, and all of the other victims of Sandusky, and families of the victims, and the special set who of folks who suffered in the horrific space of time since evidence of Sandusky's acts started to appear, feel somewhat better about things today. Someone finally stepped in and whipped some ass on their behalf. Finally, their suffering and pain and agony are being addressed. In the name of the wreckage of their lives, some good may actually emerge, and I sincerely hope that there is a lightness in their hearts today, or at least a leavening of their pain. That is the only thing that matters, and as a huge Penn State fan, today becomes joyous for that thought.
Some interesting Emmert two-steps on some issues. Apparently, because the NCAA doesn't want to create unintentional hardships, the $60 mil fine cannot come from any non-revenue sport. Or any academic program. Ummm, ok. So you don't intend for the penalties to penalize anybody innocent of wrongdoing. Right! Unfortunately, innocents are all who remain. However, obviously, I would like to think true Penn Staters are happy to help fund real-life programs focused on issues and programs surrounding cases of child abuse and molestation. If this bonfire creates fertile ground for openness and education about the dynamics of sexual predation, then this is wonderful mechanism for everyone to move forward in a positive fashion. Also, the NCAA vacated all of State's wins since '98, even though the '98 charges were not, in fact covered up. Not by the school, at least. That was the Centre County DA's call to not file charges. Whatever, I am not arguing for the reinstatement of 20-some Paterno wins. Certainly, they don't deserve squat for '01 on, and furthermore, who cares.
These sanctions are tough, but they are not unfair, and they could have been worse. No death penalty, no TV ban. This situation is completely unique, in that while the condemnation centers around an out of control, or morally unhinged "football culture", the wrongdoing in this case was committed quite outside the operation of the program. No one but those at the very top had any idea of the evil that had attached itself to the program, or that it was allowed to flourish in their midst. I cannot think of another instance where you couldn't at least claim some culpability of the players in the program's bad acts. In other words, this is not a bad program, it's leaders just failed miserably when faced with the moral high heat of their lifetimes. With that in mind, I look forward to the continued fact finding in this case. I continue to believe that, before it was way too late, Joe Paterno just did not understand the true nature of what Sandusky is. I still do not believe in my heart that Paterno traded kids for wins. I believe that Paterno and co. were simply blinded by Sandusky's greatness as a coach, and his great works* in the community. They allowed themselves those excuses to not take a hard line, sober view of the situation. While it all ends up at the same conclusion, coverup, the motivations and methodologies are just not as sinister as alleged. Again, I hope the fallout from Joe Paterno's failings can be a powerful tool for good, which is a salve to those of us who love him.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:07:04 GMT -5
The B1G only took the post season share from PSU, no balls
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:08:52 GMT -5
Well, hopefully the team being terrible for the foreseeable future will help those wackos get some perspective. And I would think the hardest thing for the PSU faithful about the ban will be the vacating of all those wins, and the fact that the school is now the most scandal-riddled in NCAA history. The place was aw-shucks, holier-than-thou for so long, and so self-righteous, that being exposed like this has to hurt a lot. guru, are you sure you are not the whack job for being so dismissive of Penn State fans desire to separate the good of something they love from the evil? Where do you derive the authority to present rigid guidelines for how people process devastating information about their loved ones? Do you really think it hurts more for a Penn State fan to vacate wins, than acknowledge that one of our programs greatest figures was a child molester? Let me tell you, it doesn't. How did you feel about Charles Smith? Did you instantly, upon hearing of his committing vehicular homicide and leaving the scene, hate him? Were you driven in your feelings about Smith by the comments of Syracuse fans? Are you ashamed for having rooted for Smith's Hoyas teams? Did you stop rooting for GTown after that? How thoroughly moral are you?
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jul 23, 2012 10:10:05 GMT -5
There's a high importance concern... More importantly, how will the Stepford fans fill their Saturday's this fall? What is life without a tailgate party in the middle of nowhere? So Elvado, if Penn State fans are Stepford Wives, what are Hoya fans? The Knights of the Round Table?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 23, 2012 10:15:15 GMT -5
How did you feel about Charles Smith? Did you instantly, upon hearing of his committing vehicular homicide and leaving the scene, hate him? Were you driven in your feelings about Smith by the comments of Syracuse fans? Are you ashamed for having rooted for Smith's Hoyas teams? Did you stop rooting for GTown after that? How thoroughly moral are you? Sandusky and Charles Smith - totally the same. We get it, you're a PSU apologist and you drank the blue kool-aid. Your attempts to rationalize everything only serve to paint you in a worse light. I guarantee that the victims who were molested are not feeling any better today.
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