|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 13, 2011 21:35:02 GMT -5
Vee left because he was going to get no run this year and next. If Max is Vee's equivalent/replacement, then we should pass. No need. Save for 2012.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,422
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 14, 2011 2:45:52 GMT -5
Vee left because he was going to get no run this year and next. If Max is Vee's equivalent/replacement, then we should pass. No need. Save for 2012. This makes no sense because their situations and their view of things may be entirely different. Vee understandably left GU after two years of III stubbornly refusing to play him much. He was a scholarship player who likely had NBA/pro aspirations and wants to at least get an opportunity to get major minutes or at least be part of a regular rotation in order to prove himself. Kenyi on the other hand is a guy who did get an opportunity at Harvard and because of injuries and or his play it may not have worked out as well as he hoped. I'm sure he had an NBA dream or two as well but by choosing Harvard out of high school it would seem that his most important objective was to get a top flight education. As a result PERHAPS he is not looking to get starter's minutes or prove he is starter-quality at whatever school he selects if he is indeed transferring. Maybe he just wants to be near home, contribute in any way to a good program/team, and still get a top flight education in the process. With all this being said I'm good either way. If Kenyi comes aboard I'm fine with it as long as he is eligible immediately. If he isn't, if he takes away from the '13 scholarship because he is given a scholarship but has to sit out a year first, then I'm against it. If Kenyi doesn't go to Gtown or has no interest in going to Gtown I'm cool with that too. I simply don't understand why some people feel his arrival would be a bad thing under the scenario I laid out.. Save the scholarship for 2012? Really? 2012 isn't a problem but 2013 could be if III isn't careful.
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
Post by chep3 on Aug 14, 2011 3:32:46 GMT -5
I love how people assume a guy who was First Team All Met in DC can not be an adequate role player from DEEP off the bench. In case you weren't paying attention: 1-He can play both guard spots, unlike Bowen or Whit. 2-Some of us are basing our comments on the idea he would be out of eligibility by the spring of 2013 which would mean he would not compete for any playing time for any '13 recruit (like Williams or Freeman). Ok, and where are you establishing either of these points? Where has it been shown that Kenyi can come in and play the 1? From what I heard, Jabril played point for the Tombs in Kenner, which I read to mean that Kenyi wasn't a pure point capable of taking over that role from Jabril. How are we convinced he can play the 1? If he can play point for a Big East team, then yeah, I'm with you on picking him up. I'm just not sure how a guy who averaged .5 apg at Harvard is going to transform into a Big East point guard. Second, where did we come up with the idea that he was going to be eligible without sitting a year out. Yes I'm aware that Julian did it, but there are probably a grand total of 2-3 guys per any given year that are able to skirt the NCAA rule about sitting out. I haven't seen anything on this board outside of absolute conjecture that indicates that he might be able to play from day one. So basically what we're looking at, in my opinion, is a guy who can't play the 1 and is going to have to sit out a year. If that's the case, do you still disagree with me? If both of your premises are right, then I'm probably with you. I just see nothing so far telling me they're right.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 14, 2011 3:56:49 GMT -5
MCI, you are going to complain about III not playing guys and then want Kenyi on scholarship taking minutes from other kids who were recruited/have scholarships and haven't gotten chance to play yet? Then you think the guy is going to play on top of that or ahead of Jabril/Bowen/Whittington/Starks and whomever else they recruit this year--a guard is going to be coming in all likelihood.
Kenyi can walk on. He's not a ball handler and he's a good practice player potentially. If he's playing significant role--then others you want to see play aren't. I'll take the guys who are in the program now in the rotation over Max Kenyi.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,422
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 14, 2011 7:39:39 GMT -5
I love how people assume a guy who was First Team All Met in DC can not be an adequate role player from DEEP off the bench. In case you weren't paying attention: 1-He can play both guard spots, unlike Bowen or Whit. 2-Some of us are basing our comments on the idea he would be out of eligibility by the spring of 2013 which would mean he would not compete for any playing time for any '13 recruit (like Williams or Freeman). Ok, and where are you establishing either of these points? Where has it been shown that Kenyi can come in and play the 1? From what I heard, Jabril played point for the Tombs in Kenner, which I read to mean that Kenyi wasn't a pure point capable of taking over that role from Jabril. Kenyi was playing on a Tombs team with five Hoya freshmen (and some Hoya vets too for four games). The coach of the Tombs knows what his responsibility is which is to get the Hoya frosh up to speed. The playing time for other players on the Tombs who are not Hoyas often end up being tossed to the side, and this summer was no different. And, yes, Jabril is a better prospect than Kenyi too. "We" came up with the idea as soon as the rumors of Kenyi transferring to Georgetown started because we felt it was the only thing that would make sense from Gtown's perspective. But we have also made it a point to let people know this was only a guess on our part. So that's why some of us keep writing "if" Kenyi is eligible immediately instead of declaring it as a fact. We simply don't know at this time.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,422
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 14, 2011 8:12:59 GMT -5
MCI, you are going to complain about III not playing guys and then want Kenyi on scholarship taking minutes from other kids who were recruited/have scholarships and haven't gotten chance to play yet? Then you think the guy is going to play on top of that or ahead of Jabril/Bowen/Whittington/Starks and whomever else they recruit this year--a guard is going to be coming in all likelihood. Maybe I did a poor job at explaining my position. I have written at least a couple of times in this thread that I do not expect Kenyi to be played ahead of any of the other Hoyas. Period. I like the idea of Kenyi purely as a backup option. We already seen Moses go down, what happens if, God forbid, one of the guys we plan on playing point guard goes down? Didn't that happen to the Hoyas last season? Based upon KL action Jason didn't seem willing or capable or in the position to play point guard either. So the #1 pg is likely Markel. The #2 point guard is likely Jabril. So who in the heck is #3? Jason? If so what happens if either Markel or Jabril hurts an ankle and is out for a game or two? We're down to one and if that "one" is Jabril we are suddenly relying mostly on a guy who is a frosh and not really a point guard. What if he can't handle it or has to sit most of the game because of foul trouble? You know the answer. We then have to rely on a senior guard who has ran away from point guard responsibilities during his first three seasons as a Hoya. How is that a good idea? What if the Hoyas run into a team with keeps three relatively small guards on the floor and keeps pushing the ball non-stop? Don't know if we can count on our 6-6 to 6-9 perimeter guys to be able to guard those types, so right now we have three that I'm sure Gtown can rely on (Jason, Markel, Jabril). So what if those three end up needing major rest or what if one of more of them pick up too many fouls? Where's the depth to grab someone else off the bench of similar size who can fill in at that moment? This has been my concern ever since Vee left and this is why many people felt III would look to bring in another point guard or combo guard with the other members of the 2011 class. This Hoya team is an injury away from a possible disaster if Markel and Jabril goes down. The Hoyas are well-covered in the positions 2 through 4 in case of injury (or academic problems of disciplinary actions). The Hoyas were well-covered at the 5 as well so even when Moses went down there was enough depth. The Hoyas are not however as well-covered at the 1, especially when you consider there is only one guy on the roster who is a true and natural point guard (and he's only a soph). It's a problem that could become a calamity. III has rolled the dice like this before in Green's final year when I believe Wallace, Sapp, Rivers and Egerson were the only real guards on the team (Egerson would leave before the second semester). Fortunately no injuries occurred. But can one always count on such good fortune? If (again IF) Kenyi is able to play immediately he gives III an out. He gives III a safety net that makes him a little less worried about depth. Kenyi is not a guy to be placed ahead of any of the young players; he is that emergency break glass box that you go to if a fire arises. A coach sleeps better having such an option because it is better to have and not need than need and not have.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 14, 2011 11:32:45 GMT -5
MCI, you are going to complain about III not playing guys and then want Kenyi on scholarship taking minutes from other kids who were recruited/have scholarships and haven't gotten chance to play yet? Then you think the guy is going to play on top of that or ahead of Jabril/Bowen/Whittington/Starks and whomever else they recruit this year--a guard is going to be coming in all likelihood. Maybe I did a poor job at explaining my position. I have written at least a couple of times in this thread that I do not expect Kenyi to be played ahead of any of the other Hoyas. Period. I like the idea of Kenyi purely as a backup option. We already seen Moses go down, what happens if, God forbid, one of the guys we plan on playing point guard goes down? Didn't that happen to the Hoyas last season? Based upon KL action Jason didn't seem willing or capable or in the position to play point guard either. So the #1 pg is likely Markel. The #2 point guard is likely Jabril. So who in the heck is #3? Jason? If so what happens if either Markel or Jabril hurts an ankle and is out for a game or two? We're down to one and if that "one" is Jabril we are suddenly relying mostly on a guy who is a frosh and not really a point guard. What if he can't handle it or has to sit most of the game because of foul trouble? You know the answer. We then have to rely on a senior guard who has ran away from point guard responsibilities during his first three seasons as a Hoya. How is that a good idea? What if the Hoyas run into a team with keeps three relatively small guards on the floor and keeps pushing the ball non-stop? Don't know if we can count on our 6-6 to 6-9 perimeter guys to be able to guard those types, so right now we have three that I'm sure Gtown can rely on (Jason, Markel, Jabril). So what if those three end up needing major rest or what if one of more of them pick up too many fouls? Where's the depth to grab someone else off the bench of similar size who can fill in at that moment? This has been my concern ever since Vee left and this is why many people felt III would look to bring in another point guard or combo guard with the other members of the 2011 class. This Hoya team is an injury away from a possible disaster if Markel and Jabril goes down. The Hoyas are well-covered in the positions 2 through 4 in case of injury (or academic problems of disciplinary actions). The Hoyas were well-covered at the 5 as well so even when Moses went down there was enough depth. The Hoyas are not however as well-covered at the 1, especially when you consider there is only one guy on the roster who is a true and natural point guard (and he's only a soph). It's a problem that could become a calamity. III has rolled the dice like this before in Green's final year when I believe Wallace, Sapp, Rivers and Egerson were the only real guards on the team (Egerson would leave before the second semester). Fortunately no injuries occurred. But can one always count on such good fortune? If (again IF) Kenyi is able to play immediately he gives III an out. He gives III a safety net that makes him a little less worried about depth. Kenyi is not a guy to be placed ahead of any of the young players; he is that emergency break glass box that you go to if a fire arises. A coach sleeps better having such an option because it is better to have and not need than need and not have. So why can't he provide the exact same thing while being a walk on? That's depth, that's avoiding using a scholarship which Georgetown has to offer some very good players who are interested and superior to Kenyi which they wouldn't have if Kenyi was on scholarship for "insurance reasons". It's not like the guy was tearing up the Ivy League at Harvard either--he hasn't earned any scholarship opportunity. If guys get injured, to the point Kenyi is in the rotation, the season is going to be rough anyways, so hopefully the coaches would have that extra scholarship to offer whichever area they need to address. As for Jason Clark not playing the PG in Summer--that was odd. Why not put him on a team he had to play the PG to not just prepare him--but also force him to be the primary ball handler and while it's a pick up league--it's still against good competition and could've helped him develop. If they insist on keeping him as an undersized 2G--then it won't be long before the debate comes up whether he's best served as a bench player.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 14, 2011 12:14:55 GMT -5
Don't do it, Max. Stay at Harvard, and help lead the Crimson to the Ivy title and the NCAA tourney!
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 14, 2011 12:57:15 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting to give him a scholarship if he doesn't require one. It's just still unclear whether he would be an NCAA counter or not in terms of taking up a scholarship. I suppose he could walk on anyway and still cost us a scholarship but save us the actual money. If he can count as a real walk on then i'm sure we all endorse that, but it's not clear that's an option.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 14, 2011 14:10:14 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting to give him a scholarship if he doesn't require one. It's just still unclear whether he would be an NCAA counter or not in terms of taking up a scholarship. I suppose he could walk on anyway and still cost us a scholarship but save us the actual money. If he can count as a real walk on then i'm sure we all endorse that, but it's not clear that's an option. He wouldn't count if he walks on--Daugherty didn't count and he left a scholarship situation---Kenyi went to Ivy League school and would be coming to Georgetown in same role. I too MCI didn't hear one thing of Kenyi playing PG--he's a 2G who isn't a great shooter but hustles and plays good defense (love that aspect of his game) and would be a nice addition to team and if put on the court--at least could fill a role. Dougherty played at the University of Rochester, which does not offer basketball scholarships.--Admin
|
|
AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Aug 14, 2011 15:37:52 GMT -5
Harvard does not offer athletic scholarships. In fact, none of the Ivies do. Financial aid is strictly need based.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 14, 2011 16:09:58 GMT -5
I know ivy league does not offer scholarships, but it is unclear how the NCAA treats ivy league players. They still have to abide by the normal transfer rules. I assume Ivy league players receive financial aid of some sort. What stops an Ivy league team from bringing in what would be over the normal 13 scholarship player limit and giving them enough financial aid that they're not paying for school anyway? Besides the ability to find basketball players who fit their tough academic standards? The NCAA must have a rule for the way they deal with Ivy league players. I just don't know what it is.
|
|
AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Aug 14, 2011 17:33:10 GMT -5
I know ivy league does not offer scholarships, but it is unclear how the NCAA treats ivy league players. They still have to abide by the normal transfer rules. I assume Ivy league players receive financial aid of some sort. What stops an Ivy league team from bringing in what would be over the normal 13 scholarship player limit and giving them enough financial aid that they're not paying for school anyway? Besides the ability to find basketball players who fit their tough academic standards? The NCAA must have a rule for the way they deal with Ivy league players. I just don't know what it is. Can't answer your question re: how the NCAA treats Ivy players, but I do know that there are several schools that have rosters of more than 13 players -- Princeton being one. Harvard only lists 13. Kenyi, btw, did not play for Harvard last season.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 14, 2011 23:06:04 GMT -5
I know where Daugherty played--but I thought he turned down a chance to transfer to schools offering him scholarship (Mid to Low Major level) to walk on at Georgetown and return to DC?
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 14, 2011 23:17:58 GMT -5
My Lordie, so much prose on this topic. The kid won't play with the depth we have at 2-3 positions this year. Pretty simple. Let the dude slide back to Cambridge...or let him walk on without affecting our scholarship situation.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 14, 2011 23:40:41 GMT -5
I know where Daugherty played--but I thought he turned down a chance to transfer to schools offering him scholarship (Mid to Low Major level) to walk on at Georgetown and return to DC? Not even close. Dougherty didn't have any offers, and he played less than 5 minutes per game when he was at Rochester, which I don't think was a D3 world-beater.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 15, 2011 0:11:41 GMT -5
I know where Daugherty played--but I thought he turned down a chance to transfer to schools offering him scholarship (Mid to Low Major level) to walk on at Georgetown and return to DC? Not even close. Dougherty didn't have any offers, and he played less than 5 minutes per game when he was at Rochester, which I don't think was a D3 world-beater. Thought he had a chance to go somewhere that wanted to develop into an Assistant Coach and said they'd take him-somewhere like Albany or something? Maybe I misread it and that was his hopes--but either way--I hope Kenyi who is a far superior player to Daugherty goes the same path should he end up a Hoya.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 15, 2011 11:31:59 GMT -5
If Kenyi didn't play at Harvard last year, does that affect his eligibility? I'm guessing the one year clock starts running after the transfer and that sitting out a year wouldn't allow him to become immediately eligible.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 15, 2011 11:34:07 GMT -5
If Kenyi didn't play at Harvard last year, does that affect his eligibility? I'm guessing the one year clock starts running after the transfer and that sitting out a year wouldn't allow him to become immediately eligible. That seems to be the consensus from what I've read. The only way he's immediately eligible is if he has a reason for transferring home ( sick relative) and gets a waiver. Now if he is able to walk on and not cost us a scholarship then it doesn't really matter if he's eligible right away or not.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 15, 2011 12:05:15 GMT -5
I still don't understand why he would have to wait--unless he was out of school completely last year.
|
|