|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 12, 2011 12:37:06 GMT -5
I don't put much stock in Kenner League "defense" evaluations. I like that he has a great motor and got back on defense quickly during summer league, but that does not translate necessarily into solid Big East defense.
Kenyi has been unable to make a meaningful impact at Harvard after two years. That speaks more than any performance at Kenner.
I say save the schollie. We have to operate on the assumption for now that there are 2 remaining schollies for 2012. One goes to Anderson or best guard available (someone who will be better than Max Kenyi hopefully), and one for a C.
No need for a 2-3 tweener, with no jumper, and suspect handle. Wth plenty of depth there for the next several seasons, he likely will not see the floor.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,264
|
Post by prhoya on Aug 12, 2011 12:46:27 GMT -5
We shouldn't be speculating on Bolden's status. Everything points to him being here. Speculation is not allowed here. Until the recruit signs in November, it's not a done deal, and that goes for all verbals.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Aug 12, 2011 15:08:44 GMT -5
I also think Bolden will be here. He is probably a couple years away from contributing, but the guy committed early and clearly wants to be a Hoya. I do not suspect the staff will push him away. Bring him in, give him a chance, see what happens.
Let's say we land the point guard we're talking about in 2012. Maybe we miss on Anderson but land Rose. The lineup next year then looks like
Starks/Rose Trawick/Bowen Porter/Whittington Lubick/Hopkins/Bolden Ayegba/Adams
Honestly, I like that lineup. Pretty balanced position-wise, good players and some depth. And no seniors, so the whole team would be back the following year. If there's another stud player (Warren, Pollard etc.) who we can also throw into the mix, sure why not. But I wouldn't add another freshman who is just decent, because he's going to be stuck behind the vets. A decent junior, though, is ok. After a guy transfers once he's probably not going to transfer again, and probably more willing to take a supporting role and give a few good minutes off the bench.
I am not thinking we're going to take a center in 2012. It's possible if the right guys emerges, sure. But once Ochefu and Ware went off the board, I don't like many of the options. Hard for me to see any of them getting into the mix. My guess is that we'll roll the dice with Adams and Moses next year, plus Nate/Hopkins in a pinch, and wait until 2013 for another center, when there are a number of good bigs that have early Hoya interest.
I don't think Kenyi is a make or break get one way or the other. If we add him great, if not, no big deal. But putting him aside, my guess is that next year's roster has <13 scholarship players on it, so if we can get the right guy to fill in the gap for 2 years, provide backcourt depth and and be a positive impact at practice, there's really no downside to it IMO.
|
|
idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
|
Post by idhoya on Aug 12, 2011 16:03:41 GMT -5
If Bowen or anyone else doesn't defend somebody they'll be on the bench.
|
|
|
Post by hoyas big supporter on Aug 12, 2011 17:05:41 GMT -5
I don't put much stock in Kenner League "defense" evaluations. I like that he has a great motor and got back on defense quickly during summer league, but that does not translate necessarily into solid Big East defense. Kenyi has been unable to make a meaningful impact at Harvard after two years. That speaks more than any performance at Kenner. I say save the schollie. We have to operate on the assumption for now that there are 2 remaining schollies for 2012. One goes to Anderson or best guard available (someone who will be better than Max Kenyi hopefully), and one for a C. No need for a 2-3 tweener, with no jumper, and suspect handle. Wth plenty of depth there for the next several seasons, he likely will not see the floor. He had MCL injuries ya Edited.
|
|
kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,992
|
Post by kghoya on Aug 12, 2011 17:52:34 GMT -5
My guess is that we'll roll the dice with Adams and Moses next year, plus Nate/Hopkins in a pinch, and wait until 2013 for another center, when there are a number of good bigs that have early Hoya interest. The early interest is always there. We need more late/last interest.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 13, 2011 9:19:31 GMT -5
If indeed MCL injuries were holding him back as you assert, isn't that even more reason to take a pass on a injury-prone player? And why so much edited animosity, tgod? Just one man's opinion.
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,006
|
Post by dense on Aug 13, 2011 9:46:38 GMT -5
I think you shouldnt give Max a schollie if you know you have some players coming in for those 2schollies otherwise I really do see a "role" for him on the team especially next year. The type of athlete he is....I would take him on the end of the bench easily.....he isn't a scrub...YouTube gonzaga 2008 and he has some jaw dropping dunks.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,748
|
Post by blueandgray on Aug 13, 2011 12:04:24 GMT -5
There is a very short list of guys that we would take a commitment from prior to September 20th...and Max isn't one of them.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Aug 13, 2011 12:36:47 GMT -5
Walk on--great addition. Scholarship would be a complete waste.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 13, 2011 13:28:18 GMT -5
Agreed.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,420
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 13, 2011 13:54:45 GMT -5
Walk on--great addition. Scholarship would be a complete waste. It would not be a complete waste if 1)Kenyi can play IMMEDIATELY and 2) if he only has two years left. He would essentially be taking the spot (and remaining years) of Vee which would be perfect because he would add emergency depth and his scholarship would be open for the 2013 class. That’s good enough for me. However some here want to bring in three guys for 2012 or possibly even four if Hollis bolts. I don’t see the need for that, especially if you get Kyle or one of those big time wings the team is going for. Frankly if the Hoyas landed Kyle I would hope they would leave it at that (Kyle and Bolden) for 2012. Kyle would give you that extra point guard AND another super lengthy wing in one package. What else would the team need with the possible exception of a big time big man? And speaking of big time big man you make an exception if Drummond picks the Hoyas because he is potentially an immediate dominant player who will only stick around for a year anyway. Possible exception could also go to a guy like Tony Parker. If the Hoyas don’t get Kyle the situation would get more complicated because none of the fantastic wings the Hoyas are pursuing (Warren, Goodwin, Pollard) can play the point guard position, thus the Hoyas would be down to only two guys who could conceivably start at that role for 2012-2013: Markel and Jabril. (note – Otto may have the capability to help out a lot with the ballhandling but I don’t think folks view him as a possible starter or legit backup for the point guard role.). This is where Kenyi could benefit. If the Hoyas miss out on Kyle but bring in some stud wing as a consolation, having Kenyi around keeps them from feeling the pressure to also bring in some last minute 2012 recruit for the point guard spot; a 2012 recruit who may not be any more impressive than Kenyi but who, unlike Kenyi, could hijack a scholarship for four freakin' years. I will admit that I favor the idea of a small 2012 class, especially if keeping it small means more scholarships left available for 2013. No, I don’t feel this way because I’m overly confident the Hoyas will get their two or three main targets for 2013. I’ve learned that lesson. I feel this way because of two reasons. The first is because the Hoyas just had two back-to-back big classes (any class that is over three recruits in a year is big to me because if you multiply it by four -- for a fouryear span -- you would be well over the 13 scholarship limit) and I think 2012 could be the perfect time to cut, say, the scholarship deficit if you will. Secondly I do feel the 2011 class is going to be at the very least pretty good, the type of class that the Hoyas can build around for the next few seasons. Therefore I would love for those guys to have some breathing room and not have to share minutes with, like, four new guys from the class of 2012. Spread it out some. I don’t feel Kenyi is a threat to take away true minutes from any of the underclassmen. I do think though he is talented enough to be a nice backup in case of injuries as well as a superb piece to be used in certain circumstances (don’t want Markel and Jabril to be the only ‘small” guys capable of chasing around midget Villanova guards after all) in 2012-2013. Some people will argue that well if you feel he isn’t a threat to steal minutes or start why would you want him on the Hoyas, blah, blah, blah. My answer is that I think you need guys like him on the team. Not every player has to be a potential star in need of minutes to develop. You need role players. The jury is still out on whether some of the current young Hoyas are destined to be role players, but I think by now we know that Kenyi isn’t a likely starter for a talented Big East team looking to achieve big things. Could he be? Yes, I guess. But it’s unlikely.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 13, 2011 14:24:28 GMT -5
I agree with everything MCI said.
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,006
|
Post by dense on Aug 13, 2011 15:33:24 GMT -5
I 2nd it....I think the people who are saying its a waste are pie in the sky hopefuls that we pull some Kentuckyeque class....which I don't feel we even need at this point like MCI said..Plus you are getting a guy for 2yrs who can actually play not like Wattad and Nikita...or Benimon..Kenyi, wont score a bunch but he definitely can defend, and can finish on the break...not blow open lay-ups like Jerrelle did.
|
|
idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
|
Post by idhoya on Aug 13, 2011 17:54:43 GMT -5
I think it's win win.
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
Post by chep3 on Aug 13, 2011 18:31:39 GMT -5
Where's he going to play? He can't play the 1. He is going to be sitting for the next two years after this one behind Jabril, Aaron, probably Greg (if we want to get him an Otto on the court at the same time). if we bring in someone in 2013 (i.e. Troy Williams or Al Freeman), then he'd be competing for PT with them too. The 2 spot is just too crowded to bring in someone who is going to be a marginal contributor at best. I'd be MUCH happier bringing in a legit pg recruit rather than another kid at the one spot in the backcourt that we're actually in good shape at.
Playing pg in the Kenner League is not the same as playing pg in the Big East. I think the assumption underlying a lot of people's positive views on this potential transfer is the idea that Jabril can backup Markel. I'm not so sure about that.
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,006
|
Post by dense on Aug 13, 2011 18:52:49 GMT -5
If he is two more years (as in plays this year and next), and Anderson comes, where is this PG recruit gonna play? He will transfer out anyway. Not worried about it for 2012. If we dont get Anderson, I think we will be in trouble in the PG regard, but we arent recruiting any really for 2012....Only new guard we have been mentioned with is the shooter out of AZ.... My support for this comes if he can be eligible this year...I'm all for it. And not concerned about where he will play...I dont look at him as some game changing recruit, I look at him as depth, who does something that we need on a BE level....DEFEND
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,420
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 13, 2011 19:33:19 GMT -5
Where's he going to play? He can't play the 1. He is going to be sitting for the next two years after this one behind Jabril, Aaron, probably Greg (if we want to get him an Otto on the court at the same time). if we bring in someone in 2013 (i.e. Troy Williams or Al Freeman), then he'd be competing for PT with them too. The 2 spot is just too crowded to bring in someone who is going to be a marginal contributor at best. I'd be MUCH happier bringing in a legit pg recruit rather than another kid at the one spot in the backcourt that we're actually in good shape at. Playing pg in the Kenner League is not the same as playing pg in the Big East. I think the assumption underlying a lot of people's positive views on this potential transfer is the idea that Jabril can backup Markel. I'm not so sure about that. I love how people assume a guy who was First Team All Met in DC can not be an adequate role player from DEEP off the bench. In case you weren't paying attention: 1-He can play both guard spots, unlike Bowen or Whit. 2-Some of us are basing our comments on the idea he would be out of eligibility by the spring of 2013 which would mean he would not compete for any playing time for any '13 recruit (like Williams or Freeman). For those who are against the idea I ask what scenario do you think should play out if Kenyi is not brought on board. If we get Kyle are you satisfied enough with the bodies at the point guard spot. On offense I am satisfied. But on defense....considering most college guards are relatively short I'd be concerned that the only "small" guards on the team to chase them around if need be for extended minutes are Markel and Jabril. And calling Jabril a "small guard" is a stretch. If we get Kyle AND bring in some other point guard to help defend the smaller dudes then that other point guard will eat up a schollie for the next four years and give the Hoyas one less scholarship for 2013. The Hoyas lost out on their one chance to get a likely smaller point guard of impact for the 2012 class. Why make the situation worse by taking a chance bringing in a likely unheralded short point who as a freshman would almost surely be less ready to compete in the BE (if need be) as someone of Kenyi's age and experience? If we don't get Kyle then the Hoyas have no choice but to bring in said unheralded point guard recruit. To save recruiting face the Hoyas would also try to bring in a big time player on the wing since they are apparently going after a hundred of them in 2012. So again that would wipe out a scholarship for 2013. At this rate III would have one to zero scholarships to work with for the 2013 class. Is that a good thing? Want to keep cramming crowded classes back after back after back? Look, if the kid only has two years left and could play immediately it does not hurt the team in the long haul. Period. I'm tired of people saying playing well in the KL doesn't prove anything because those same folks would claim that a player's sub par performance in that same league was all the evidence they needed to know he wasn't any good. And pardon me if I'm being a little bit protective of the KL, but I have to say that performing well in that league is a better and more sure indicator of what a player can do than the player's high school basketball resume. Sure it ain't perfect and never will be but it is the best method of judgment we currently have. Furthermore I can say for certainty there are/were guys on teams such as VCU and Ohio who early in their college careers would also not be considered Big East quality but still somehow managed to kick our tails during the dance. Again if this was about Kenyi starting for Gtown or Kenyi taking up a scholarship for four seasons, I wouldn't be making this argument. But that's not the situation. Kenyi may be more of A10 quality starter than a Big East starter. Fortunately all the Hoyas would ask of him is to come off the bench when needed. Last of all I am going to share this excerpt and quote from a writeup by Ron of Hoya Report . It is regarding the Tombs' come from behind victory against Boss Auto in last weekend's semi-finals: Harvard's junior guard Max Kenyi was key in producing three of those steals within the last two minutes. He also sank five of six free throws over that time. Kenyi finished with 12 very important and timely points.
"Coach wanted me to make plays" said Kenyi of his impact. "Other guys can take over offensively. I take over defensively". He may not be Gene Smith but he obviously places more pride on the defensive end than the offensive end. Isn't that what many of you been clamoring for? I'm an offense whore so defense is typically the last thing I focus on but even I realize the worth of a guy who wants to lock you down.
|
|
idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
|
Post by idhoya on Aug 13, 2011 19:55:48 GMT -5
and he's at least 6'3 and long.
|
|
|
Post by sleepyjackson21 on Aug 13, 2011 21:10:52 GMT -5
And it's still a possibility that if Kenyi comes, he comes as a walk-on and isn't a counter. Somebody please tell me how Kyle Kuric doesn't count as a counter against Louisville. Kuric came in as a preferred walk-on but he was definitely recruited. He had scholarship offers from Michigan, Mississippi, St Louis, Charlotte and Penn State. Louisville and Indiana were monitoring him. When Derrick Caracter left Louisville in the summer of 08, Kuric got his scholarship. This season, with Louisville over the limit, Pitino puts him back as a walk-on. Where is the line drawn about somebody being recruited and being a counter, walk-on or not? And are we recruiting Kenyi or is he a kid who wants to move back home and is looking for a program?
Sidenote: I am with MCI on this one. If he is on scholarship and he is eligible this season, i say take him.
|
|