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Post by gohoyas408 on Mar 5, 2011 16:26:50 GMT -5
Last Three Games: Jason Clark: 5-27 (.185) Julian Vaughn: 1-16 (.062) OUCH!
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harlemhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by harlemhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:27:36 GMT -5
Last Three Games: Jason Clark: 5-27 (.185) Julian Vaughn: 1-16 (.062) Some people thought Clark was the best player on this team after November.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2011 16:27:43 GMT -5
I'm proud of our guys. We fought to the end. We were able make it a game for 3/4's of the game, but being shorthanded, we could only do so much. Can't get mad at that. Respect the effort and will of the players. It would have been tough to pull out a victory considering the circumstances. If we lost like this with Chris Wright, then we would have a reasonable ax to grind, but, when considering the circumstances, today's loss was not surprising. Just got to do the best we can from here on out. Thats all we can do. We are what we are. That's the sad part - without one player(albeit a critical one) we are a very poor team. Frazier, go back to last year, when Freeman got sick, and look how poor we played, and we had Monroe. It didn't matter. We just don't have backup options for Freeman and Wright. Its not just points and numbers with those guys, as we can see. They fill other voids on our squad that you can't measure. Starks still has his training wheels on. This is the worst time to break in a young true freshman PG, down the stretch with the onset of tournament time. I think what we saw today is that we don't have anybody who can attack a defense, outside of Wright and Freeman. And Freeman is the only guy who can finish. Reduce us to solely Freeman, and we are a one-trick pony offensively. We just pass it around and hope for an open look. And usually if the ball winds up in Sims, Benimon, Mbenga, Lubick's or even Thompson's hands, the opposing defense can live with the consequences of that. It also puts less pressure on the opposing team's offense. thats why the game was close and Cincy was finally able to find that groove down the stretch and blow the game wide open. They could relax knowing that G-town's offense would struggle all day.
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LeRoyHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 165
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Post by LeRoyHoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:28:05 GMT -5
When you give up the fewest points in the league, you don't have to be a juggernaut on offense.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 5, 2011 16:28:25 GMT -5
Last Three Games: Jason Clark: 5-27 (.185) Julian Vaughn: 1-16 (.062) This is devastating.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:28:37 GMT -5
Re: the bye scenario, we have clinched a first round bye and are locked into the 8 seed. UConn cannot pass us, and we beat both Nova and Marquette earlier this year, so neither can pass us. Most likely scenario has us opening at noon on Wed. facing Marquette (who should beat SHU). If Marquette loses, more than likely we'll be facing UConn (assuming Nova doesn't beat Pitt).
Our guys better spend the next 3 days in the gym shooting jumpers. Because as well as we played defense for the first 30-32 minutes of this game, our offense as is isn't going to cut it no matter how well we play defensively. Are there less opportunities to get easy baskets with Wright out? Of course. But we cannot continue to have guys we rely on to shoot from outside to show absolutely no competence in that area of the game. If you're open, bury the shot. If you're contested, show some damn focus and concentration and hit the shot. If there's a built in excuse that "oh, I was guarded, so there's really no way I can make this shot," then this team is finished. There really is no other cure, and it's on the players to figure it out.
The staff put together a defensive plan that for the most part kept UC under wraps, especially points in the paint. I thought our effort on the defensive end for the most part was more than sufficient. But the staff can't shoot the ball for the players. I like the fact that Austin realized in the second half his perimeter jumper wasn't falling and decided to try to penetrate as best he could. But Free bringing a one-dimensional offensive effort to the game won't be enough with Chris out.
Lost in today's disaster was that we actually took pretty good care of the ball. Don't have the final turnover numbers, but it did not seem like we gave the ball up that much.
If there's one thing I really hope the staff does for Wed., it's this: I think we've got to start Markel over Hollis or Clark. Free is really struggling by having to handle the ball as much as he does, and Markel for the most part has been steady at PG since CW has been out. I thought Vee also did a good job handling the ball against pressure today, and I honestly think they should be splitting time at the 1 instead of giving those minutes to Clark and Hollis. Hollis was at his best this year coming off the bench and providing an offensive spark when the starters came out. He needs to be moved back to that role. As for JC, I'm really not sure what we do with him at this point. He can't hit the side of a barn, but without CW we can't really afford to cut his minutes. He just needs to somehow regain his confidence, and quick.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:29:34 GMT -5
Chris may be able to get people shots, but he can't make those shots go in. We really have shot the ball poorly for quite a while now.; Exactly! JT3 had JC playing the point and we had 7 to against 6 steals. Clearly a bad move. Now JC and JV going a combined 1-14 that's on coach too. What's he thinking?! That's because they aren't taking any chances. They aren't dribble penetrating but just standing around the 3pt line passing it around. The turnovers are going to be lower than when Wright plays but it makes it harder to get open shots or passes where you are effective (in Vaughn's case). Now it's not JT3's fault. Wright's out. But when you can't get open looks or passes where you are comfortable then you can't do much. Vaughn's very effective 5 feet from the basket 1 on 1. He's being pulled out to 10 feet, and he doesn't have the ability to put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket like Monroe or shoot an outside shot. His game is in close, and without Wright he's not getting the ball where he's most effective.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 5, 2011 16:29:48 GMT -5
True indeed god! We would lost these games with Wright. Cincy was smacking us before Wright hurt his hand in the first game. Do not use his injury as an excuse!
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:31:17 GMT -5
The 3 starters who shaped the identity of this year's team was only good enough for middle of the pack BE. Very strange comment considering one of those starters Wright (is injured)
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2011 16:32:04 GMT -5
This game doesn't bring anger--it brings sadness. Just rock bottom in all honesty. Not because of the game--but because it was obvious how LONG the climb back up is going to be and how far the "small ball" approach took the program backwards.
Lack of athleticism has been obvious for a long time-so that's understandable but they didn't do anything to in terms of effort plays--like going and getting ball, getting loose balls, identifying shooters, no strength with ball, it was just the areas that without an important player--you've got to polish up.
Vaughn/Freeman/Clark just have to play better--and I'm just stunned that Clark is allowed to continue to start. It's a failure--you've got to go to a true PG so you don't kill the team--by making Freeman do far too much. He can play some point in a pinch but he's got to score and efficiently with this team-and he can't now.
Vaughn's been awful 2 of last 3 games-but he's trying--he's just not a very good player--but he gives his all. Better talent/athletes are intimidating him. Just hope he can get some boards and provide some fouls--which he did.
Lubick--know Pops mentioned he's got to step up--but he's not that caliber player--yet. It's frustrating to have open 15 foot jumpers and nobody on team taking them. If Nate's going to hoist a 3 once in a while--TAKE THAT DAMN 15 footer! It's given to Hoyas--and he gets ball to the spot--take it!
Everyone had major part in lack of defensive attention--and that's sad. Same mistakes being made. Same people making them. No corrections. Shows lack of want to and/or lack of hoops IQ. Always bickering when a guy has to come over and hammer a wide open player preventing a dunk or as he gets 3pt play. It's a TEAM thing--not an individual--and individuals might screw up the same thing--but it takes a TEAM to correct it.
Let's be honest--if you have a guy who is going to be the point guard next year--and your SR starter is out--he's GOT to play or that leaves door open that maybe you need to upgrade the position. There is nothing positive about seeing Clark/Freeman backcourt on either end. It's brutal. If Starks can't supplant Clark now--which I believe helps everyone else stay "normal"--then I'm not feeling "comfy" about next year. He's a Soph now--he's played enough--give him the ball!
NOBODY on this team should have a set spot in lineup next year. NOBODY. There isn't one guy you can say is a great talent/player. I think they can develop into better players--but not with a Starks/Clark backcourt-that is too small and Clarks' played himself out of a spot in lineup. Not from these last 3 games-but his play all season. Know it'll likely NOT go down like this--he'll start, they'll be small-but major work needs to go into his game if he plans on playing more then 20 mpg to be a contributor moving forward.
ATHLETICISM/SIZE/SKILL are needed. For a small team--it's not very skilled. Good news--it's never as rotten as it looks-but this was a wakeup call and if it's not--hate to see what it'll take to get the message.
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robbyt
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 334
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Post by robbyt on Mar 5, 2011 16:32:12 GMT -5
...from previous thread...
Yes I think we will be better next year. We lie to ourselves and say the we don't need a PG to run things, truth is it's critical. Starks is a natural at point with radar vision and solid ballhandling, Lubick, Tyler Adams and Sims underneath looks real good to me, much more offensive minded than what we've been doing. I think, while I love his talents and appreciate the fact that he carried the team time and again, there is some addition by subtraction of Freeman in terms of overall ball movement and rythm which are the bread and butter of this offense. Maybe one other guy doesn't replace his 18 ppg, but 3 guys with better opportunities do. Sims has gotten better, big men take longer to develop, and will be solid enough next year.
Keeping Clark and Hollis who hustle their butts off and play tough D, I like the looks of things. Maybe not a championship, but not as frustrating logistically as the past few years. Definitely more fun to watch. That's all I ask. Just play as a team. I think Starks, Lubick, and this new kid Adams could have nasty chemistry.
Truth is Freeman and Wright have lots of skills, even NBA skills, and did a lot of great things here, but always against the grain. They never had the innate feel for this offense--they understood it, but never had the feel. I don't claim to understand it, but I do know it's true. Starks and Lubick had that feel the day they walked in, so does Hollis. That's why I think we're better next year.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:32:50 GMT -5
Several comments seem to think that CW is all that is missing from this team right now. Not true. The lack of any credible inside game is killing us against every physical team we play. This is particularly the case when there does not appear to be a single offense oriented post on this team. JV tries but his shooting percentage from layup range is horrible. Lubick has no shot and his aggressiveness is getting called more frequently than before. Sanford apparently has a short leash that won't lengthen even when HT AF and JC cannot hit the side of a barn. I guess the recruiting misses and the defection of Monroe to the NBA have really killed this team lately.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 5, 2011 16:33:09 GMT -5
True indeed god! We would lost these games with Wright. Cincy was smacking us before Wright hurt his hand in the first game. Do not use his injury as an excuse! Neither you, nor anyone else, knows how that game would have ended. To emphatically state we would have lost is B.S.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:34:05 GMT -5
Last Three Games: Jason Clark: 5-27 (.185) Julian Vaughn: 1-16 (.062) Some people thought Clark was the best player on this team after November. Those are the same people who give up on the team, then jump back on the bandwagon, then give up on the team (when Freeman gets sick or Wright gets hurt) or were in the Chris Wright Haters Club.
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Post by Churchwell on Mar 5, 2011 16:36:13 GMT -5
It IS embarassing. Chris Wright or no Chris Wright, you can't lay down like that. Sure they fought but that's just a terrible way to end the season. I'm very happy with 10-8 in the BE given what this year could have been. But after an NIT finish, a loss to Ohio in last year's tourney and this end of season flameout, somebody please tell me what about Hoya basketball there is to feel good about. We seem to have this personality where we are streaky and can play with anyone but then get absolutely punked by anyone.
After seeing the way we've lost these games, is there really ANY chance of a run in either the BE or NCAA tourneys. I thought Sweet Sixteen was an admirable goal for this group. But now can't see that as even a remote possibility.
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robbyt
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 334
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Post by robbyt on Mar 5, 2011 16:36:54 GMT -5
Clark is a great slasher, we just don't get him the ball on the way to the hoop nearly enough.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Mar 5, 2011 16:37:53 GMT -5
robbyt, I'm sorry, but you are crazy. To expect this team to be better next year is absolute insanity; there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up. We are losing 3 of our 4 best players, and we don't have anyone returning that is better than a 4th option right now.
You seem to primarily be basing your prediction on the court vision of a PG who has a lower assist rate than Henry Sims. We are going to struggle badly to score next year barring some massive improvements from guys like Starks, Lubick, and Thompson.
We desperately need to find a star in the 2012 class, because we haven't gotten one since Monroe and I don't see one in 2011 either (although I do think all 3 guys have the potential to be solid players).
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2011 16:38:22 GMT -5
...from previous thread... Truth is Freeman and Wright have lots of skills, even NBA skills, and did a lot of great things here, but always against the grain. They never had the innate feel for this offense--they understood it, but never had the feel. I don't claim to understand it, but I do know it's true. Starks and Lubick had that feel the day they walked in, so does Hollis. That's why I think we're better next year. This is ridiculous. Almost as bad as the comment last year, "who needs McD's all American's when you can find gems like Bennimon"
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Post by gohoyas408 on Mar 5, 2011 16:39:30 GMT -5
...from previous thread... Yes I think we will be better next year. We lie to ourselves and say the we don't need a PG to run things, truth is it's critical. Starks is a natural at point with radar vision and solid ballhandling, Lubick, Tyler Adams and Sims underneath looks real good to me, much more offensive minded than what we've been doing. I think, while I love his talents and appreciate the fact that he carried the team time and again, there is some addition by subtraction of Freeman in terms of overall ball movement and rythm which are the bread and butter of this offense. Maybe one other guy doesn't replace his 18 ppg, but 3 guys with better opportunities do. Sims has gotten better, big men take longer to develop, and will be solid enough next year. Keeping Clark and Hollis who hustle their butts off and play tough D, I like the looks of things. Maybe not a championship, but not as frustrating logistically as the past few years. Definitely more fun to watch. That's all I ask. Just play as a team. I think Starks, Lubick, and this new kid Adams could have nasty chemistry. Truth is Freeman and Wright have lots of skills, even NBA skills, and did a lot of great things here, but always against the grain. They never had the innate feel for this offense--they understood it, but never had the feel. I don't claim to understand it, but I do know it's true. Starks and Lubick had that feel the day they walked in, so does Hollis. That's why I think we're better next year. No way is next year's team better then this year's team... No chance..
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2011 16:39:46 GMT -5
Is Starks really the answer at PG, though?
he is a young kid, no doubt. i'd like to see a little more from him on the court, to make the claim he is the future at PG for the program.
seems much more like a undersized off-guard than PG to me at this point.
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