tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Feb 1, 2011 23:12:58 GMT -5
Holy crap. Vee and Benny are NOT interchangeable. How is this still going on? Give JB credit for doing his best. It's the coach's decision to play him. He must see something in the kid. We need JB. Period. He gets spot minutes to rest other players. Why is this even a thread?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Feb 1, 2011 23:13:26 GMT -5
Not for nothing.... we've been WINNING. With Jerrelle getting minutes.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 2, 2011 3:12:17 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Jerelle has gotten less minutes as we have won...only about 3 min difference in his minutes in our BE wins vs losses.
This win streak he has been averaging 5 min a game...I think a good amount.
Also, as someone pointed out earlier, his minutes have further declined since BE play. I think this demonstrates that Jerelle is necessary depth and the further we get into the season, hopefully Nate and Hollis will get more comfortable playing the F position.
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Feb 2, 2011 8:46:30 GMT -5
2. JT3 does not want to give up on a big that he may need in the future. Look what would have happened if Coach gave up on Sims. We would have lost a solid player this year. Bigs take longer to develop. Now sure you can counter and say well Benemon is not a 6-10 center and yes I get that. Still I think these is the answer to the question. A 6-6 power forward with no offense and no hops. Good luck with that in the Big East. They should have a dance off between Vee and Bennimon to see who gets Bennimon's minutes. I didnt say i agree, Im just trying to think why JT3 would continue to roll him out there. Listen I would have given up on Sims a long time ago maybe is just being patient and he sees some potential like with Sims alot of us did not see....
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Feb 2, 2011 9:00:58 GMT -5
A 6-6 power forward with no offense and no hops. Good luck with that in the Big East. They should have a dance off between Vee and Bennimon to see who gets Bennimon's minutes. Well, he had an inch on Benimon, but Pitt's Chevy Troutman was one of many of those garbage-bucket players that have killed us over the years. I'm not opposed to having one on our team. (I also see Lubick as a more talented version of that prototype, but if he improves, I don't have any problem with JB in that backup 4 role, or even as the guy who comes in to give a hard foul when necessary).
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skkhoya07
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 271
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Post by skkhoya07 on Feb 2, 2011 10:30:47 GMT -5
Sims and Julian cannot play PF in III's system because the 4 needs to be able to float around the 3 point line to facilitate the offense (i.e. timed dribble-backdoor passes) please not that III tried sims at the 4 but his dribbling and passing were not up to par, so III moved sims to the 5. I have yet to see Bennimon throw a timed dribble-backdoor pass successfully. All I see him do is hang around the perimeter with his hands down and sling no look passes around the 3pt circle. I 100% agree that benny offers no offense but we simply do not have anyone better who can play the 4 in IIIs system until Hopkins and Adams join us next season benny is working with baby steps--conceptually he can walk through the system now and hopefully next year he will be able to make layups and deliver/receive cutting passes (execute!) defensively, benny can guard slow 3s and undersized 4s which did help us beat louisville
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Feb 2, 2011 10:37:05 GMT -5
Vee is a sophomore backing up a senior and a junior. His time will come.
Benimon is a sophomore backing up a freshman and appears to be okay with that. This has not been the case in recent years. Most of the transfers and chemistry problems have come when players did not want to accept being behind younger teammates.
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aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
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Post by aristides on Feb 2, 2011 10:49:24 GMT -5
I'm a Benimon fan. I certainly understand his detractors though. His offensive shortcomings don't hide well. But I see his role as providing hustle and defense and I think he delivers. He gets playing time for key defensive possessions in some big games. For example, the closing seconds of the Nova game. The fact that JTIII had other options, but elected to go with Benimon, speaks volumes for him. He's a good, versatile role player, and I'd argue that he has room for growth. There hasn't been a player on this team that hasn't looked clueless at times as a freshman or a sophmore.
Isn't he listed at 6'7? I wouldn't be surprised if he was 6'6, just curious if that's an educated guess or a listed height somewhere.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 2, 2011 10:50:01 GMT -5
Vee is a sophomore backing up a senior and a junior. His time will come. Benimon is a sophomore backing up a freshman and appears to be okay with that. This has not been the case in recent years. Most of the transfers and chemistry problems have come when players did not want to accept being behind younger teammates. Some kids just want to be Hoyas, try their hardest to contribute whatever they can, and get a great education in the bargain. Any program can use guys like that. Unfortunately some fans can't.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,599
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Post by guru on Feb 2, 2011 11:05:48 GMT -5
Vee is a sophomore backing up a senior and a junior. His time will come. Benimon is a sophomore backing up a freshman and appears to be okay with that. This has not been the case in recent years. Most of the transfers and chemistry problems have come when players did not want to accept being behind younger teammates. Some kids just want to be Hoyas, try their hardest to contribute whatever they can, and get a great education in the bargain. Any program can use guys like that. Unfortunately some fans can't. Exactly - Benimon bashing should stop. I was as frustrated as anyone when he barreled down the court on that fastbreak the other night - you could see the charging call coming from halfcourt. But he plays hard, accepts his role and - like it or not - is going to play a key part in the fate of this team
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Feb 2, 2011 12:37:19 GMT -5
This thread really points out how important Benimon's play is to this Hoya team's ceiling. During the swoon, the Hoyas were custard soft inside, not contesting anything, giving countless second shots while getting none themselves. That has not been the case during the recent surge. The biggest Hoya question mark coming into this year, obviously, was the front court. Rose-colored glasses wearing types like myself hoped it would be a case of addition by subtraction, substitute Monroe for Sims and Lubick and a deeper bench, and with our fab guards, be just as explosive while also being more consistent effort-wise. For a while, not so much. Lately, bingo. Bottom line, while we have yet to see the best that Julian, Nate, Henry and Jerelle have to offer, I sense that they now have an identity, they've turned the corner and understand that we need, at the minimum, the kind of physically tough play that we've enjoyed these last games. It is nothing short of critical that Jerelle Bennimon delivers the same kind of hard nose D and rebounding that he has displayed recently, most notably during the 'Nova game, if we are going to go where this team should go. Don't get me wrong, I love Vee, and we will probably need him in at least a few games going forward, but with our guards, he is somewhat of a luxury, while Jerelle is a necessity. Next year, Vee will be key.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 2, 2011 13:41:07 GMT -5
I have yet to see Bennimon throw a timed dribble-backdoor pass successfully. All I see him do is hang around the perimeter with his hands down and sling no look passes around the 3pt circle. I 100% agree that benny offers no offense but we simply do not have anyone better who can play the 4 in IIIs system until Hopkins and Adams join us next season defensively, benny can guard slow 3s and undersized 4s which did help us beat louisville This is the Bennimon Myth at work once again. Hollis can slide over to the 4 for Bennimon's 5 minutes. At worst Moses can take those minutes and we'd still be better off. An out of position Hollis at PF, is still a much better power forward than Bennimon.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 2, 2011 13:42:40 GMT -5
Some kids just want to be Hoyas, try their hardest to contribute whatever they can, and get a great education in the bargain. Any program can use guys like that. Unfortunately some fans can't.[/quote] Exactly, these same fans ran Wattad and Nikita out of town. Why didn't you speak up then.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,599
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Post by guru on Feb 2, 2011 13:48:23 GMT -5
I 100% agree that benny offers no offense but we simply do not have anyone better who can play the 4 in IIIs system until Hopkins and Adams join us next season defensively, benny can guard slow 3s and undersized 4s which did help us beat louisville This is the Bennimon Myth at work once again. Hollis can slide over to the 4 for Bennimon's 5 minutes. At worst Moses can take those minutes and we'd still be better off. An out of position Hollis at PF, is still a much better power forward than Bennimon. Team has won five games in a row. Why do you want to change things up? Or do you blame Benimon for the losing streak of a few weeks back? That seems odd, if so.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 2, 2011 13:48:53 GMT -5
A 6-6 power forward with no offense and no hops. Good luck with that in the Big East. They should have a dance off between Vee and Bennimon to see who gets Bennimon's minutes. I didnt say i agree, Im just trying to think why JT3 would continue to roll him out there. Listen I would have given up on Sims a long time ago maybe is just being patient and he sees some potential like with Sims alot of us did not see.... I would have to disagree. Sims has the measurables you want in a big man: Height (6-10), length, athleticism. So being patient with a project like that or Hibbert can pay dividends. Unless Bennimon grows 7 inches over the summer like Scottie Pippen did in college, he's still a very short power forward, with short arms, no hops and lacks speed. Having said that if you are going to try to develop Bennimon, develop him in practice. His Net Point rating in conference play is the worst on the team on offense and defense. Slide Hollis to the 4 for Bennimon's 5/10 mintues and put in Vee or whoever else is more productive and helping the team. Conf. games only . Offense Defense Net Player Poss %Poss Rtg Poss Rtg Pts Rtg Freeman, Austin 547 24.2 120.5 549 104.1 34.2 6.2 Wright, Chris 532 22.5 101.8 531 96.8 13.4 2.5 Clark, Jason 492 19.2 99.6 492 100.0 -2.6 -0.5 Vaughn, Julian 417 18.3 111.1 414 101.3 3.0 0.7 Thompson, Hollis 360 15.8 112.9 354 91.4 6.5 1.8 Lubick, Nate 333 13.1 107.4 331 101.8 -7.9 -2.4 Sims, Henry 193 19.7 97.5 195 90.8 1.9 1.0 Benimon, Jerrelle 115 15.8 59.6 124 111.3 -13.9 -11.6 Starks, Markel 106 21.0 54.7 104 88.9 -4.4 -4.2 Sanford, Vee 51 19.3 132.0 57 116.7 -1.5 -2.8
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,281
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Post by prhoya on Feb 2, 2011 14:13:53 GMT -5
Some kids just want to be Hoyas, try their hardest to contribute whatever they can, and get a great education in the bargain. Any program can use guys like that. Unfortunately some fans can't. Exactly, these same fans ran Wattad and Nikita out of town. Why didn't you speak up then.[/quote] Wattad and Nikita wanted to play more minutes and they knew their minutes were going to decrease the following year. They left. It wasn't up to the fans. As a matter of fact, the fans never knew until they left.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 2, 2011 15:44:42 GMT -5
Bet you Jerrelle will be a captain his SR year...not saying he will be getting major minutes but he has the intangibles of a captain.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,007
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Post by dense on Feb 2, 2011 16:16:05 GMT -5
What i want is for people to stop this myth of Sims Vaughn or Moses playing the 4, of all of them Henry would be the best choice and we saw the past 2 years its not his thing, he is in a good grove at the 5, why screw it up. The 4 in our offense has to be able to handle the ball, and make comptent decisions. Do you see Moses dribble from the wing trying to set up the backdoor cutter down the middle, then if its not there dribbling to the top and swinging the ball, it would get picked or thrown away or he would be stripped everytime!!!, SO STOP SAYING THAT!!!.. Jerelle plays the 4 because we need him there. Next year i think he gets the same amount fo time as he does now, maybe a min or 2 more, but he knows his role. I dont mind him taking a 3 now and then, you have to or they will never play you. remember the Cincy game when Rivers hit those 2 3's those were back breaking cause of how they were playing him.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 2, 2011 17:12:19 GMT -5
Some kids just want to be Hoyas, try their hardest to contribute whatever they can, and get a great education in the bargain. Any program can use guys like that. Unfortunately some fans can't. Exactly, these same fans ran Wattad and Nikita out of town. Why didn't you speak up then.[/quote]In fact I was fairly critical of those who constantly ridiculed Nikita, for the same reason - he gave effort, ran the offense, but did not always get results. As for Omar, I don't remember quite the same level of vitriol about him.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Feb 2, 2011 23:07:02 GMT -5
JB is not a "big man" - he's a 6'7" 3 and he'll be pretty good in a couple years. Just needs confidence and repetition.
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