The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 17, 2010 18:27:57 GMT -5
And that's in this thread because......?
If you want to start a thread about the Pope's trip to the UK, go ahead. As far as I can tell it's been a PR disaster. First the hubbub over the costs to the British taxpayer, then the "3rd world" comments, now this.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 20, 2010 9:57:53 GMT -5
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Sept 20, 2010 11:34:33 GMT -5
If anyone can read Arabic, I'd be curious what the literal translation of the question is (hopefully this is a readable image). I saw translations ranging from "approve moving" to "oppose," and I'd also be curious whether the word mosque or some variant of community center was used. It should perhaps be noted that the WSJ article conveniently leaves out the "on their website" part when calling it a "poll." This is roughly equivalent to me calling the NYT America's most respected news source, grabbing an 11,000-person poll from their website, and then extrapolating those perentages and saying it represents America.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 20, 2010 12:13:24 GMT -5
Fair points, sir. Absolutely.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 20, 2010 15:47:42 GMT -5
I think that any public opinion poll spanning the Arab World, web-based or otherwise, has to be suspect to say the least. Let's face it, most Arabs aren't free to express their true opinions.
Also, the Arab World and the Muslim World are very different things. Arabs are a small minority of Muslims.
But one of the column's larger points is true - despite the fact that things have clearly gotten worse for American Muslims since 9/11, Muslims still have it pretty good in this country. On a related note, Muslims in America are notably less restless and radical than their counterparts in Europe.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 18, 2010 12:58:55 GMT -5
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 18, 2010 14:10:11 GMT -5
I don't think it's that surprising, since it's blatantly obvious that Europe's approach to dealing with immigrants has failed badly. Call it multiculturalism or whatever else you like, the simple truth is that most Europeans have rejected it. That said, I think things are very different here in the US.
The Europeans seem to have adopted the "salad bowl" approach to integrating immigrants - all the parts are mixed around, but each individual part hasn't changed. That's partly because the pre-existing culture has utterly rejected any influences from the immigrant cultures, and partly because the immigrant cultures have largely refused to adopt the ways of the pre-existing culture. Those two factors feed off of each other, and it's hard to say who's fault it is except for "everybody's." It's a chicken and egg scenario. Either way, it results in the immigrant communities generally sticking to themselves and the European people staying away from them.
Here in the US, the pre-existing culture has shown a greater willingness to embrace aspects of immigrant cultures, and immigrants have generally been more willing to adapt to American ways. I think a big part of this is simply experience - America has dealt with integrating immigrants for a couple of centuries now, while this is really the first time Europe has faced a big wave of immigrants.
With the specific case of Muslims, Muslim-Americans have generally integrated very well into American society. Most of them are very willing to embrace American culture and American values. In return, they enjoy tremendous freedom to practice their religion and protection from the law on the rare occasions when they're treated badly.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 18, 2010 14:10:47 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that link Boz. Consider the source. Germany does not have the world's best track record for religious freedom and understanding. Now they want to curb Islamic religious practices? Germany also has a long history of importing workers-- mostly Turks - to do their dirty work, then sending them home when they aren't needed and/or unemployment rises. The USA, on the other hand, was built on immigration and on religious freedom as underpinning principles. Unless you are a Native American, you or your ancestors were immigrants. The Pilgrims fled Europe seeking religious freedom in The New World. It seems to me, the worse economic conditions are around the world and the around the country, the more anger, blame, and division -- and potentially violence -- will occur. Our leaders have a choice. Stand up to it for the good of the country, or inflame it for personal gain.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 18, 2010 16:31:39 GMT -5
Consider the source. Germany does not have the world's best track record for religious freedom and understanding. Now they want to curb Islamic religious practices? I think this is a first for Hoyatalk - a Hitler comparison that didn't invoke Godwin's Law.
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