lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Feb 4, 2010 12:49:05 GMT -5
The reason Duke comes up in these conversations is because of the similaritites. Small, educational school with a good basketball program.
See if you can get tickets easily and cheaply for Duke v. Va Tech at Cameron. See if you get to sniff courtside.
EDIT: like I said before, we're talking about 4 or 5 games a year. This isn't some nightly obligation. A handful of nights out of the year. Yeah, I think that we should expect that for the No. 7 team in the country. Oh, and you're a putz for thinking otherwise.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 4, 2010 12:58:46 GMT -5
Maybe this is a false dichotomy, but I think there are 2 distinct types of fans:
First, there are fans that believe that their main function (as far as sports go) is to support the team. The team is playing for a larger goal, and they view it as their responsibility to support the team by coming to the game and cheering. These are the fans most likely to come to a game like USF.
Then, there are fans that believe that the team exists to entertain them. They feel little if any obligation to go out to a game and cheer if it's not what they want to be doing. Sports are about fun, and if the amount of fun derived from seeing us play USF on a Wednesday does not exceed the negatives of having to get there and having to sacrifice 3+ hours of time that could be spent doing other things, they're not going to go. Some might cite excuses like "I had to study" or "Didn't want to pay for the metro", but many (though you don't see em much on Hoyatalk) will out and out tell you, "Eh, didn't really care that much about the game so I didn't bother."
Hoyatalk is largely composed of the first group, and countless threads over the years have seen people from the first group bitching about the second group.
Much of it falls on def ears though... If you're a second group-type of fan, you don't care about being a superfan or about showing/proving your loyalty to the team or about what other people say about Georgetown's fanbase, you only care whether the experience is fun for you. As an undergrad I knew many people who viewed games like USF last night as a no-win situation--if Georgetown wins, eh, it's not that much fun because they're supposed to win and it's a Wednesday night and you just have to go home and do schoolwork. If they lose it's miserable like we all felt after last nights game, and you still have to go home and do schoolwork. The idea of any sort of duty to support the team never even enters the equation, because again they view the team as existing to entertain THEM.
While most of us may struggle to comprehend the second group because we are so fixated on our first group logic, they are undoubtedly a large portion of the student and alumni populations, and sometimes you just have to come to grips with it. You can call them out, call them names, look down on them for not being "true fans", etc. but they are always going to be around and they probably don't care much if you think they're frontrunners or whatever else. In fact a lot of them would probably laugh at you for sacrificing your time last night and having 0 to show for it.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 4, 2010 13:03:56 GMT -5
JIMMYHOYA IN MY BUSINESS WE CALL THAT RATIONALIZATION COMING UP WITH SOME INTELLECTUAL REASON TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING AWAY THATS WHAT IT IS show up studs please you are needed and GREAT POINT DAN ON THE MONARCH BUTTERFLYS THAT FLEW INTO AND OUT MCDONOUGH NEARLY A SCRATCH ON THEM FROM OUR STUDENTS please team needs energy but CROWD AND THE STUDENT CROWD DO MAKE A DIFFEENCE A BIG FREAKING DIFFERENCE please come out stud come out restore my faith.. go hoyas beat nova an sat
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Feb 4, 2010 13:04:48 GMT -5
The crowd of 12,200 would be Cameron plus 25% at Duke or Purcell plus 20% at Notre Dame. That is pretty good for a school with 6K undergrads. We have a Kentucky or UNC type arena to fill.
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bubbrubbhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
We are the intuitive minds that plot the course. Woo-WOOO!
Posts: 1,369
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Feb 4, 2010 13:05:29 GMT -5
JIMMYHOYA IN MY BUSINESS WE CALL THAT RATIONALIZATION COMING UP WITH SOME INTELLECTUAL REASON TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING AWAY THATS WHAT IT IS show up studs please you are needed and GREAT POINT DAN ON THE MONARCH BUTTERFLYS THAT FLEW INTO AND OUT MCDONOUGH NEARLY A SCRATCH ON THEM FROM OUR STUDENTS please team needs energy but CROWD AND THE STUDENT CROWD DO MAKE A DIFFEENCE A BIG FREAKING DIFFERENCE please come out stud come out restore my faith.. go hoyas beat nova an sat Haha-- that is an intelLICtual smackdown. Take that, JimmyHoya, you fairweather rationalizer!
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 4, 2010 13:09:55 GMT -5
ok lets stop this discussion now and JUST SHOW UP FOR ALL THE FREAKING GAMES nuf said THATS the solution wright there
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 4, 2010 13:19:22 GMT -5
Bill Simmons has two sets of emails from tortured fan bases today. But the best came from last week - sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100129&sportCat=nfl"I'm watching the Vikings-Saints game. So are the guys in the apartment next to me, only my TV is running 10 seconds slower than theirs. I just heard Favre's pick before it happened. And now they're going to OT, where the Saints are sure as hell gonna win the toss. The girl I love won't talk to me. Please give me a reason not to kill myself. -- Nick, Minneapolis" I'm sadly in the first group, but because of emails like this I understand why people are in the second.
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Feb 4, 2010 13:27:10 GMT -5
Oh for the good old days on HoyaTalk in which students bitched about alum attendance and why don't alums cheer harder.
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
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Post by gujake on Feb 4, 2010 13:31:00 GMT -5
Agree with RBHoya, and I believe I recall FLHoya making a similar post when the topic of student season tickets came up a couple years back (anybody have a link to that post?). There just aren't a ton of fans that are in that first group.
That being said, I think there is a question here as to why the difference now compared to recent years? As many people in this thread have pointed out, I don't recall it being like this in the recent past when the team was good, even for games like USF. What has changed?
Is the newness of the team being good gone? Is Hoya Blue doing something different? Are people not showing up to games like this for a different reason? Or is my memory just slanted from when I was a student?
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rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
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Post by rosslynhoya on Feb 4, 2010 13:38:05 GMT -5
Agree with RBHoya, and I believe I recall FLHoya making a similar post when the topic of student season tickets came up a couple years back (anybody have a link to that post?). There just aren't a ton of fans that are in that first group. That being said, I think there is a question here as to why the difference now compared to recent years? As many people in this thread have pointed out, I don't recall it being like this in the recent past when the team was good, even for games like USF. What has changed? Is the newness of the team being good gone? Is Hoya Blue doing something different? Are people not showing up to games like this for a different reason? Or is my memory just slanted from when I was a student? I have no access to any kind of numbers, but I would guess that the renewal rates for sophomores (i.e., last year's frosh) and juniors were at a record low this year. These are the kids who were HS juniors and seniors during the Final Four run and would have arrived at the Hilltop expecting basketball glory, only to experience the ups and downs of last spring. I strongly doubt there's ever been an expectations gap in program history between what the student body feels entitled to and what the team ended up delivering.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Feb 4, 2010 13:44:45 GMT -5
RB, that's a fair point.
My only problem with it is that college basketball isn't like rooting for the Redskins. No one will ever see you're from Washington, DC on a resume and ask 'So, you must have be a big Redskins fan.' That basketball team, for better or worse, is a representation of our school, and if you're a student, YOUR school. When Gilbert Arenas totes guns into a locker room, Washington doesn't become a gun-toting cesspool of thuggery. When Jason Clark takes exception to Famous' end of game dunk and tackles him from behind while he's going up, Georgetown itself becomes the villain. In college sports, it's not about rooting for sports teams, it's about rooting for your school and identifying with it in a different way than for professional teams. I don't really fault anyone in Philadelphia if the want to go spend time with their family instead of watching the Eagles. Those are different investment choices. Here, you've already made the investment by attending the University. That one chooses not to recognize and appreciate that is what bothers me.
So, I understand the sociology, if we want to call it that, of sports fans, but there's a reason the schools we like to compare ourselves to have legions of cute coeds who don't care a lick about sports, but paint their faces and go to every game anyway. Those schools have cultivated a student base that cheers not for Duke Basketball or Kansas Basketball, they just cheer for Duke or Kansas. Whether they know it or not, they recognize that supporting their school is an important part of being part of the school, that the success of the institution as a whole only depends on what those affiliated with it want to put in.
Now, those fans probably don't think that's what their doing, but unconsciously they've bought into the idea somehow these things are important in a way that it wasn't to them before. Somehow, Georgetown students don't get that the investment on going to last night's game isn't simply about watching a basketball game. It's working on cultivating the investment you've made by putting the Georgetown brand out there. These kids holing themselves up so they can get jobs: show that you're a team player. Let people know that Georgetown is about working hard and building something to be better. Georgetown is essentially your "job" right now.
Now, I admit that all sounds a bit silly, but is it really? As alumni, we donate for two reasons: 1) Because we appreciate the time we had and want others to have the same opportunity and 2) Because we know the continued usefulness of our status as 'Alumni of Georgetown' depends on the continued success of the institution. Students need to realize that that relationship is true for them too, and as the most visible and nationally recognizable face of our school, the basketball team is very much a part of that.
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 4, 2010 14:08:54 GMT -5
Jimmy, we're friends, and to be honest I agree with a lot of the points you made. But I really think that there needs some sort of incentive structure in place so that there's even more of a reason to show up to games like this, rather than just the big ones. We already have Hoya Rewards, perhaps this can go along with that.
Also, personally I never feel "obligated" to go to all the games. If the games aren't fun for you, then you shouldn't go. I go because I have a good time, I enjoy supporting and cheering on the team, win or lose, and I like to see my college friends at the games. Supporting the team is important to me. I do schedule much of my life around Georgetown games (mostly home, but sometimes road too) during the season, and I balance my priorities, because I like it. I don't like it when Georgetown, fans or players, looks bad. However, in my seven years of fandom, I've never walked out of the arena, even after a bad loss, and think "Boy, I wish I didn't go to the game and did XYZ instead." Not that anyone is suggesting that.
Anyways, we need to create more of that "fun" atmosphere for games outside of top 10 opponents and our biggest Big East rivals. Verizon Center is not ideal for us, but we're stuck with it for the forseeable future, and we really can make it rock for most games.
Finally, the complaining about this would be probably still be here, but it would be much less if we had just won the damn game.
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hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Feb 4, 2010 14:14:59 GMT -5
In my day, we took limos in inclement weather even though the games were at McDonough!
Shape up, kids!
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Post by hoyasaxa10 on Feb 4, 2010 14:28:41 GMT -5
As a student who sits in the front row for every game, I was embarrassed by the lack of energy and turnout of our student body, and I think it really hurt our chances at winning that game. While the atmosphere for Duke was incredible, and, I think, played a huge role in our win, I knew that there would then be no one there for USF (even though they had just beaten a good Pitt team). Because, generally, I think the student body tends to be fair-weather fans. Some of my roommates, for example, who couldn't care less about basketball, talked up the Duke game like it was the most important thing to happen since we landed on the moon.
That being said, I think the non-student crowd needs to step it up too. It was a struggle for us to encourage anyone to get on their feet and get our players back into it. For those few of us who ARE there early for every game and stand on our feet jumping and cheering for 40 minutes of basketball, it sucks to see a general lack of enthusiasm. I think it needs to be a joint effort by students and fans alike to come to the games and do a little better than that mediocre cheering effort.
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Just Cos on Feb 4, 2010 14:29:49 GMT -5
I think Georgetown should bring back requiring photos with applications...I'm just saying.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,328
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Post by tashoya on Feb 4, 2010 14:49:09 GMT -5
Question: do you all still masturbate in tears like you did in college, or have we matured so we only do this self-righteous snob routine online now? Seriously, stop complaining about students. There's gonna be low turnout games like last night till the end of time. Stop pretending that this past weekend or even some of the medium/big BE games are indicative of the fanbase. It's NOT. You know why the 400s were full last weekend and will be, although probably not to the same degree this Saturday and the Thursday ‘cuse comes to town? *drum roll please* Because a lot of alums came into town and a lot more kids wanted to get inappropriately drunk with their friends. Duke’s a big name, that’s why they came. (Nova and Cuse are big too, but not as big, and while people know they’re rivals, maybe kinda sorta not everyone took a Hoyatalk administered fan test before the season and know those are the biggest games of the year??) Do you know why at least 40% of student season ticket holders spend 150 on tickets or whatever it is now before the season? I assure you it isn't because they are die-hards trying to get in the front row, it's because they want to have access to tickets for the big games when all their friends are pumped for some afternoon shenanigans and/or some sweet day drinking. THIS IS THE SAME AS AT EVERY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE NATION. (maybe at WVU they have a little/lot less class about it) Difference at G’town: We just happen to have only 6000 kids instead of the 28000 at UMCP or whatever public institution you want to talk about, PLUS we have as many or MORE student seats that can be filled. Think about the ratios of spots and the demand. It’s really not all that shocking. It would have be a very, very pleasant surprise if we got close to filling both sections last night, never mind the overflow. I would love Austin Freeman to come on here and answer this question: Do Georgetown students OWE you to show up? Not does he appreciate it, not does the energy help him or the team, not anything else but does any student owe him to go to the game. I think we’d all agree that no student owes the school or the team to show up and that every cheer, every sign, every job well done is a very nice added bonus. Stop acting like the students let the team or you down. All your money you donate is to support the team, not to join it. Stop getting all offended and self-righteous. No offense to Austin, JT3 or anyone else, but if you go into the game counting on the students to be loud, you are one soft basketball player and never mind our lack of depth, THAT is officially the newest reason to be concerned about the team. Good grief. THANK GAWD THAT ISNT THE CASE. People cheer out of school pride, not because they’re obligated to for any reason. Period. (and a completely different debate) Furthermore, I’m not one to get all antsy about how tough school is to get into or how hard it is now or what advances we have because it’s all relative and that’s lame and it doesn’t matter. You do what you have to do. That’s how you learn responsibility. You make mistakes, you realize what your limits are, and you move on. However, please, please, PLEASE stop knocking people’s priorities because you’re so enlightened that you realized that studying for that one test or not didn’t matter. Would I miss the game? No, and I rarely did. Am I going to knock someone who stayed home because they felt more comfortable if they studied or prepared for that interview? Heck no. You all sound like freaking student section bullies, “YOU BETTER GO TO THE GAME…OR ELSE!” You gonna kill JT3’s puppy if I don’t? Get a grip. The best you can do is remind and ask people to come to the games with you and offer alternatives if they feel the need to study or whatever, but anything more is overbearing and unnecessary and out of line. It just is. No if’s, and’s or but’s about it. I agree: college kids don’t have much perspective and this and that. But with that said, what do you want them to do? Age 10 years and become boring like you so you can look back in hindsight and understand that if they went to the USF game…then what? Do you feel better that you went to the game and cheered while we lost versus if you watched it at home? I don’t understand where these attendance badges of honor come from. Most people I know go to the games because they like the atmosphere and watching the games up close and cheering, not because they feel obligated. I hope most of you don’t live in DC just because of the team! That’s no way to make decisions in life! Lastly, I challenge you, older alums. You’re all friendly people that like going to Nats games or Skins games or giving games up for charity auctions, etc. You trade tickets with your friends and they help you out. If you had to give a home game’s seats away, would you give nova? No. Cuse? No. UConn? No. Duke? Heck no. Would you have given Rutgers or USF? Yes, yes, yes, yes and more yes. If there was one game you would sacrifice to bring some friends or business associates or clients to, you’d pick this one because it doesn’t matter to you as much as the others. Nobody’s fooled by your big words that every game is a must win and must attend. You don’t think of it that way, and if you do, Lord help you. Find some freaking hobbies besides checking Hoyatalk, ESPN.com and counting down to the next game. Epilogue: And yknow what? Now as I post this I realize I’m the idiot in all this…I once again fell or Hoyatalk’s insanity. Well played, Hoyatalk, well played. Your typically inane and out of touch debates clouded my own judgment (if only I was sooo enlightened as the others!!) and wasted a solid 25 minutes of my life ranting about something no one on the other side will ever realize just…doesn’t…matter. On the bright side, you've admitted that you're the idiot and that's half the battle. Additionally, if THAT took you 25 minutes, I'm surprised you EVER had time to catch a game. You'd have been excused.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Feb 4, 2010 14:55:28 GMT -5
Dear people who think buses are the answer: 2000 student season ticket holders / 50 students per bus = 40 buses. Yeah, they'll all fit in Healy Circle fine and will have no trouble getting out of Georgetown or finding parking next to the Verizon Center.
Also, the D2, D6, and G2 buses all go to Dupont. I don't know why anyone relies on GUTS, especially now that Metro has NextBus going for it.
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cnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 399
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Post by cnyhoya on Feb 4, 2010 15:07:14 GMT -5
Question - Are there any students who didn't go to the game last night on this board? Or are we just preaching to the choir?
If there are, can we get a roll call?
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 4, 2010 15:17:28 GMT -5
Question - Are there any students who didn't go to the game last night on this board? Or are we just preaching to the choir? If there are, can we get a roll call? Hoyatalk is not the place for a public shaming.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 4, 2010 15:24:02 GMT -5
Question: do you all still masturbate in tears like you did in college, or have we matured so we only do this self-righteous snob routine online now? Seriously, stop complaining about students. There's gonna be low turnout games like last night till the end of time. Stop pretending that this past weekend or even some of the medium/big BE games are indicative of the fanbase. It's NOT. You know why the 400s were full last weekend and will be, although probably not to the same degree this Saturday and the Thursday ‘cuse comes to town? *drum roll please* Because a lot of alums came into town and a lot more kids wanted to get inappropriately drunk with their friends. Duke’s a big name, that’s why they came. (Nova and Cuse are big too, but not as big, and while people know they’re rivals, maybe kinda sorta not everyone took a Hoyatalk administered fan test before the season and know those are the biggest games of the year??) Do you know why at least 40% of student season ticket holders spend 150 on tickets or whatever it is now before the season? I assure you it isn't because they are die-hards trying to get in the front row, it's because they want to have access to tickets for the big games when all their friends are pumped for some afternoon shenanigans and/or some sweet day drinking. THIS IS THE SAME AS AT EVERY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE NATION. (maybe at WVU they have a little/lot less class about it) Difference at G’town: We just happen to have only 6000 kids instead of the 28000 at UMCP or whatever public institution you want to talk about, PLUS we have as many or MORE student seats that can be filled. Think about the ratios of spots and the demand. It’s really not all that shocking. It would have be a very, very pleasant surprise if we got close to filling both sections last night, never mind the overflow. I would love Austin Freeman to come on here and answer this question: Do Georgetown students OWE you to show up? Not does he appreciate it, not does the energy help him or the team, not anything else but does any student owe him to go to the game. I think we’d all agree that no student owes the school or the team to show up and that every cheer, every sign, every job well done is a very nice added bonus. Stop acting like the students let the team or you down. All your money you donate is to support the team, not to join it. Stop getting all offended and self-righteous. No offense to Austin, JT3 or anyone else, but if you go into the game counting on the students to be loud, you are one soft basketball player and never mind our lack of depth, THAT is officially the newest reason to be concerned about the team. Good grief. THANK GAWD THAT ISNT THE CASE. People cheer out of school pride, not because they’re obligated to for any reason. Period. (and a completely different debate) Furthermore, I’m not one to get all antsy about how tough school is to get into or how hard it is now or what advances we have because it’s all relative and that’s lame and it doesn’t matter. You do what you have to do. That’s how you learn responsibility. You make mistakes, you realize what your limits are, and you move on. However, please, please, PLEASE stop knocking people’s priorities because you’re so enlightened that you realized that studying for that one test or not didn’t matter. Would I miss the game? No, and I rarely did. Am I going to knock someone who stayed home because they felt more comfortable if they studied or prepared for that interview? Heck no. You all sound like freaking student section bullies, “YOU BETTER GO TO THE GAME…OR ELSE!” You gonna kill JT3’s puppy if I don’t? Get a grip. The best you can do is remind and ask people to come to the games with you and offer alternatives if they feel the need to study or whatever, but anything more is overbearing and unnecessary and out of line. It just is. No if’s, and’s or but’s about it. I agree: college kids don’t have much perspective and this and that. But with that said, what do you want them to do? Age 10 years and become boring like you so you can look back in hindsight and understand that if they went to the USF game…then what? Do you feel better that you went to the game and cheered while we lost versus if you watched it at home? I don’t understand where these attendance badges of honor come from. Most people I know go to the games because they like the atmosphere and watching the games up close and cheering, not because they feel obligated. I hope most of you don’t live in DC just because of the team! That’s no way to make decisions in life! Lastly, I challenge you, older alums. You’re all friendly people that like going to Nats games or Skins games or giving games up for charity auctions, etc. You trade tickets with your friends and they help you out. If you had to give a home game’s seats away, would you give nova? No. Cuse? No. UConn? No. Duke? Heck no. Would you have given Rutgers or USF? Yes, yes, yes, yes and more yes. If there was one game you would sacrifice to bring some friends or business associates or clients to, you’d pick this one because it doesn’t matter to you as much as the others. Nobody’s fooled by your big words that every game is a must win and must attend. You don’t think of it that way, and if you do, Lord help you. Find some freaking hobbies besides checking Hoyatalk, ESPN.com and counting down to the next game. Epilogue: And yknow what? Now as I post this I realize I’m the idiot in all this…I once again fell or Hoyatalk’s insanity. Well played, Hoyatalk, well played. Your typically inane and out of touch debates clouded my own judgment (if only I was sooo enlightened as the others!!) and wasted a solid 25 minutes of my life ranting about something no one on the other side will ever realize just…doesn’t…matter. The "Tolstoy Award for Post Too Long for Me to Bother Reading" goes to...
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