SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 16, 2009 20:27:53 GMT -5
I feel like the committe does this every year. They make one or two really odd inclusions or seeds but keep them from getting exposed by making them play each other or other mis-seeds that make it a close game.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 17, 2009 20:10:43 GMT -5
Very disappointing night in the play-in game for Alabama State star Chief Kickingstallionsims Jr., star of the GU-Stetson McDonough game from a few seasons ago.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 17, 2009 20:15:53 GMT -5
Touney Upsets/ thoughts
1. All the 12 seeds are live this year. 2. This is the best Gonzaga team ive ever seen. Dark horse final four team in a weak bracket. 3. Duke and UCONN flame out early. Uconn unfort has the easiest draw till memphis if they make it to memphis they get smoked 4. UCLA , WASHINGTON AND purdue are soft. 5. Best bets- memphis and louisville...
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 17, 2009 20:43:16 GMT -5
I'm not sold on Memphis. Their non-conference resume is nothing special (I think I remember them losing to Syracuse and some other team from the Big East), and they once again made themselves look good by mopping up on the pathetic Conference USA. This Memphis team is nowhere near as good as last year's Memphis team.
And no team with Jon Brockman is soft.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 17, 2009 21:42:32 GMT -5
Memphis is not as good as last year but might not have to be. I believe they were deserving of a number one seed over uconn. Memphis won what like 26 straight games? Every loss was a quality loss. They were in the championship game last year, and would hav won if coach cal didnt mess it up with 2 minuets left.
The committee holds them to impossible standards. They are not allowed to l ose in there conference and every game they play is the other teams superbowl. Memphis is better than uconn they would run them out of the gym, they are so long defensively and really can tighten up the screws on you. Plus this year they are a better ft shooting team.
Memphis reminds me of how UNLV was in the early 1990's. They dominate a weak confidence and time after time have proved themselves worthy of there top seeding.
They deserved the one seed.....
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Mar 17, 2009 22:01:55 GMT -5
They did not deserve the 1 seed. Uconn vs. memphis RPI 8 vs. 7 SOS 30 vs. 49 total losses 4 vs. 3 against top 50 8-3 vs. 2-3 against top 100 15-4 vs. 15-3 against 100+ 12-0(4 over 200) vs. 16-0 ( 6 over 200)
only major difference Uconn had 6 more top 50 wins.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 17, 2009 23:47:48 GMT -5
As much as I love the Big East, I'm having a hard time once I look at each team individually seeing any Final Four team from the conference.
Louisville is good, but they were very, very lucky to have the schedule they did--no games at Pitt or UConn or Marquette, and a tight win vs. MU at home without Dominic James (though you'll never hear me admit around town here that James absence made the difference). They also had a Pitt and UConn-free draw to the Big East Championship. That, and their region is clearly the most difficult.
Pitt--they never make the deep run and you just know Blair will have foul trouble at least once--that's the Achilles.
UConn--I just don't think they're as good as they look on paper or when they're thrashing some clearly inferior team. Maybe that's because they lost to the 11th place Big East team in a blowout at home.
Syracuse--hard to see them staying hot for another two weeks.
Marquette--no James, no way.
West Virginia--capable of a nice win or two, but Huggins has never been a big NCAA success, and they don't have Final Four talent.
Villanova--Meh.
I really, really, really hate to say it because it will make watching everything about the tournament insufferable, but I can't shake this feeling that this season is shaping up a lot like 2003-2004, when UConn hype was everywhere to start the season but they proceeded to fall off the radar screen a bit, garnering a quiet 2 seed before thrashing their way to the title. Similarly, I could easily see UNC ultimately justifying all the preseason hype.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 18, 2009 7:17:11 GMT -5
HOYA SINCE BIRTH- RPI- basically the same S0S- Only a difference because of the conferences they play in, once again not memphis' fault. Memphis plays a tough non conference schedule as well as pre conference tournments.
UCONN has those advantages because memphis was more inexperienced, coach CAL didnt put EVANS at the point till close to mid season. Dont forget they lost 3 big time players from last years team (cdr, rose and dorsey). Once they got there rotaion set they won every game. Uconn lost knowone. This Uconn team is an engima Memphis would rout them.
Now if you said uconn is better with DYson you can use that argument if you want.....
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 18, 2009 7:25:13 GMT -5
I agree, BD. The only team I was really sold on was L'ville, but they got a brutal draw in my opinion. OSU, MSU, WAKE, and even WVU are capable of playing them tight and taking them down. I dont see them surviving. Pitt is the conference's best hope to make the Final Four, and may be the only one.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Mar 18, 2009 8:54:48 GMT -5
At the very least it's debatable who deserved that last #1 seed. I'd lean in the direction of Uconn because they proved more during the regular season. It's not about who would win in a match up or really who's a better team. Selecting the seeds is about who proved they deserved it more on paper. On paper Uconn's resume is better.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 18, 2009 9:37:04 GMT -5
HOYA SINCE BIRTH- RPI- basically the same S0S- Only a difference because of the conferences they play in, once again not memphis' fault. Memphis plays a tough non conference schedule as well as pre conference tournments. UCONN has those advantages because memphis was more inexperienced, coach CAL didnt put EVANS at the point till close to mid season. Dont forget they lost 3 big time players from last years team (cdr, rose and dorsey). Once they got there rotaion set they won every game. Uconn lost knowone. This Uconn team is an engima Memphis would rout them. Now if you said uconn is better with DYson you can use that argument if you want..... There's a different argument for who is better now and who has the better "body of work." Memphis really hasn't proven anything aside from massive margins of victory against CUSA and they beat Gonzaga. Conncecticut simply did more this year. You may be right that Memphis is better now, but the committee chair was more than clear about the complete body of work. The difference is clear: Memphis had a sub-500 record against Top 50 RPI teams. It's not a matter of fault; it's a matter of the conference season proving very little for Memphis.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 18, 2009 9:58:41 GMT -5
I see all 4 #1's making it to Detroit. I like Nova and WVU to atleast the Sweet 16. Toney Douglas continues his hotness and carries FSU to the Sweet 16. I like USC's athleticism and toughness and they ride that to Sweet 16. I don't think Butler upsets LSU despite what all the experts say. I like Arizona St. vs. Syracuse in the 2nd round; James Harden and Pendergraff vs. Flynn and Arinze. Cuse could go down. Gonzaga vs. UNC is intriguing in Sweet 16. Miss St. to Sweet 16 too.
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Mar 18, 2009 10:22:46 GMT -5
Memphis won what like 26 straight games? Every loss was a quality loss. I disagree. I, with a great number of people on this board, was present at one of their losses. As it turns out, that loss was not a quality loss. The team that beat them went 9-12 after that game and ended up with a 6 seed in the NIT. As for the Georgetown-Arizona comparison (with Virginia Tech thrown in for additional comparison), this guy seems to have the right idea: tinyurl.com/czmv6y
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 18, 2009 11:25:11 GMT -5
Jon Glockner (sp?) at SI.com has six Big East teams in the Elite 8. Now wouldn't that be cool (except for Syracuse, of course).
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 18, 2009 13:04:05 GMT -5
Russky,
I wouldn't call Chief a star. He's the third option at best. State got jobbed being put in the play in game, but they lost so that ends that.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 18, 2009 13:55:28 GMT -5
Good call BD, except I actually really like UL. They have 3 NBA players on the team and two of them are upperclassmen. Samuels is playing the exact role he should, meanwhile, Clark and T Williams are terrific players. The best duo in the Big east in my opinion, Blair and Young are a close second. The reason I like Clark and Williams is there game can translate outside the BE, that is why UL is the only team I see with serious title aspirations in the BE.
To me, the biggest disappointment will be Pitt. They have never gotten past the Sweet 16 and Blair is a 5th foul waiting to happen. What he gets away with in the BE (clearing space) will be a quick whistle in the NCAAs. Officiating will decide Pitt's tournament. I can imagine the punks at Duke flopping against Blair and drawing 3 charges in the game's first 10 minutes. I also hate that if they get down 15 points, they likley cannot recover.
As for the other #1, UConn is simply not a Final Four team without Dyson. Thabeet is an offensive albatross and this team has still NOT won a BE or NCAA tournament game, that is simply amazing.
Cuse will wear down and eventually have a cold shooting game, it could happen in the 2nd round. ASU can break SU's 2-3 zone while Temple's defense may be able to muck up the Orange's offense. Everyone knows Cuse plays well at MSG, not sure that is an indicator of how they will play on a true neutral court.
Nova is a common sleeper pick but not mine. They will play in Philly and maybe make the Sweet 16, but there is nothing in the front-court that makes me think they could get beyond the second weekend.
Marquette is out, their seeding was a joke and they still will likely get beaten by a 30 win team in Utah State. USU has some nice big men and MU will hope to get hot from 3 just to get past the 1st round, that does not bode well for an extended stay.
WVU is probably the most intriguing team but can they even get by Dayton to play KU? But I do give them the best shot of any BE team of over-acheiving their seeding. They have nice balance with Butler, Ruoff and the rise of that freshman Ebanks.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Mar 18, 2009 15:40:04 GMT -5
Good call BD, except I actually really like UL. They have 3 NBA players on the team and two of them are upperclassmen. Samuels is playing the exact role he should, meanwhile, Clark and T Williams are terrific players. The best duo in the Big east in my opinion, Blair and Young are a close second. The reason I like Clark and Williams is there game can translate outside the BE, that is why UL is the only team I see with serious title aspirations in the BE. To me, the biggest disappointment will be Pitt. They have never gotten past the Sweet 16 and Blair is a 5th foul waiting to happen. What he gets away with in the BE (clearing space) will be a quick whistle in the NCAAs. Officiating will decide Pitt's tournament. I can imagine the punks at Duke flopping against Blair and drawing 3 charges in the game's first 10 minutes. I also hate that if they get down 15 points, they likley cannot recover. As for the other #1, UConn is simply not a Final Four team without Dyson. Thabeet is an offensive albatross and this team has still NOT won a BE or NCAA tournament game, that is simply amazing. Cuse will wear down and eventually have a cold shooting game, it could happen in the 2nd round. ASU can break SU's 2-3 zone while Temple's defense may be able to muck up the Orange's offense. Everyone knows Cuse plays well at MSG, not sure that is an indicator of how they will play on a true neutral court. Nova is a common sleeper pick but not mine. They will play in Philly and maybe make the Sweet 16, but there is nothing in the front-court that makes me think they could get beyond the second weekend. Marquette is out, their seeding was a joke and they still will likely get beaten by a 30 win team in Utah State. USU has some nice big men and MU will hope to get hot from 3 just to get past the 1st round, that does not bode well for an extended stay. WVU is probably the most intriguing team but can they even get by Dayton to play KU? But I do give them the best shot of any BE team of over-acheiving their seeding. They have nice balance with Butler, Ruoff and the rise of that freshman Ebanks. A couple of quick comments: Certainly Blair is prone to foul trouble, but in general, the games are called a little looser in the tourney, so if anything, that could help him a little. Secondly, it has been quite clear, that regardless of whether the ref blew his whistle, if a marquee player is playing with 4 fouls, the refs will do whatever they can to give the foul to someone else, if at all possible. Note: those comments don't apply to teams playing Duke. I agree with you on Louisville. I know they got a big benefit with the luck of the draw on the screwy BE scheduling, but they are still a very good team. Sure, I know that McIlarney and Harengody beat them by 30 some earlier in the year, but still, the "body of work" that Pitino's boys have put together is pretty impressive. I think it's kind of interesting that most pundits had UNC, UConn and Pitt as virtual locks for #1s going into the conference tourneys. The question I kept hearing was whether Louisville could give the BE 3 #1 seeds with a strong showing in the BE tournament, or whether an Oklahoma, Memphis or Mich. St. could earn that last #1 with a good conference tournament. Then, lo and behold, Louisville gets the overall #1 seed, and I can't argue with it. Regardless of schedule, they won the BE regular season outright and then won the conference tournament. With the clear dominance that the entire conference had, that is just too tough to ignore. Sure, the fact that they were able to "dodge" UConn and Pitt certainly made their task easier, but you just can't deny the bottom line. I'm no Louisville fan for sure, but I can't deny their overall resume. The one question that I would have was just how much did individual players' injuries factor in. Clearly, North Carolina isn't the same, dominant team without Lawson. They were still rewarded with a #1, and rightfully so, but for argument's sake, had the expectation for Lawson's return been much more negative, what would have happened to their seeding? I don't know. And in the case of Memphis, they were clearly a much better team with the shuffled lineup. What would have happened earlier in the year had they been using that lineup? There's no way of knowing, but logic would suggest that they would have turned an "L" or two, into a "W." Lastly, Oklahoma clearly struggled towards the end of the season. Not coincidentally, Blake Griffin had that bizarre injury, causing him to miss a couple of games. I think it was obvious that even after he came back, he wasn't yet 100%. They lost any shot at a #1 when they lost in the opening round of their tournament, but how much of that could be placed on the loss of momentum and the change in team chemistry from a juggled lineup over the previous several games? Again, it's hard to say. Logic tells me that Oklahoma will probably resemble the team from the middle of the year, and therefore the team that was a very likely #1. In Lawson's case, it's a bit tougher. I would be shocked if he plays at all in the first game. You just can't risk tweaking that injury at this time of the season. So now UNC would be going against a very disciplined Butler or LSU team, having played the past two weeks without their key playmaker. How much will that effect their chemistry? Might they be ripe for an upset? Would they be better to try to give Lawson another couple of days of rest and win without him? At least that would give them 4 or 5 days practice to get back in flow. I think those are some interesting sidelights to consider. As for Nova, I like their draw, playing in Philly, and if they make it to the Elite 8, then a potential matchup against Pitt could be winnable for them, but logic would suggest that such a regional final would propel Pitt to the Final four. In any case, we have some exciting weeks ahead of us.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 18, 2009 15:43:39 GMT -5
A couple of quick comments: Certainly Blair is prone to foul trouble, but in general, the games are called a little looser in the tourney, so if anything, that could help him a little. If only that were true in the Davidson game last year. Roy minus two of the offensive fouls = a Hoyas win by 25.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 18, 2009 15:47:25 GMT -5
Watch out for TENN-Pitt in the second round. TENN is inconsistent but will challenge Pitt in the second round.
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Post by 98hoya on Mar 18, 2009 16:02:01 GMT -5
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