Jack
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Post by Jack on Oct 27, 2008 16:36:39 GMT -5
Really guys? Of all the Knicks poor management decisions over the past decade, you want to flip out over their choice to cut the least expensive player on their roster who was likely to spend the season in the NBDL? This talk of lost ticket sales and jersey sales is absurd- he was not going to be playing at the Garden even if he made the 15 man roster.
I like Pat Jr. and I still think he may have a future in the NBA, but he is very undersized to be a 4 and has not yet demonstrated the consistency needed to be a shooting threat as a 3. Let him continue to hone his offensive game and maybe someday he becomes a poor mans Bruce Bowen, but lets not go overboard impugning the Knicks for having the gall to cut Prince Patrick- it was the least risky move they could make, and he could still end up back there if a roster spot opens up.
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Post by dungeon ball on Oct 27, 2008 16:46:01 GMT -5
Really guys? Of all the Knicks poor management decisions over the past decade, you want to flip out over their choice to cut the least expensive player on their roster who was likely to spend the season in the NBDL? This talk of lost ticket sales and jersey sales is absurd- he was not going to be playing at the Garden even if he made the 15 man roster. I like Pat Jr. and I still think he may have a future in the NBA, but he is very undersized to be a 4 and has not yet demonstrated the consistency needed to be a shooting threat as a 3. Let him continue to hone his offensive game and maybe someday he becomes a poor mans Bruce Bowen, but lets not go overboard impugning the Knicks for having the gall to cut Prince Patrick- it was the least risky move they could make, and he could still end up back there if a roster spot opens up. I admittedly was being melodramatic about jersey sales (a little bit tongue in cheek(, but it would be pretty damn cool to own a Knicks Ewing Jr. jersey. And you sure as hell can't say that about Roberson.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 27, 2008 16:47:42 GMT -5
I think it is a bad move for several reasons:
1. It's a bad PR move. Look at Knicks boards. For better or worse, people aren't happy. How much is that worth? I dunno.
2. Patrick's place on the roster in place of a player like James or Roberson has non-direct benefits. He works hard, unlike James. He's a team player, unlike Roberson. D'Antoni is going to have to manage a ridiculous number of players and egos this year -- having someone who will keep people laughing and still run through walls for you is valuable. How valuable? I dunno.
3. What's the on the court upside to Roberson? If neither is going to see the floor, why do you want that guy over the guy the fans want and who is a better teammate? $400k? Why trade for Roberson to begin with then?
4. I suppose there is some ridiculous cap hope for James, so I can see that. But a buyout might be in everyone's best interest regardless of Ewing.
5. I think it is questionable he won't see the floor. He's no different than Balkman (who they traded for Roberson!) and he was a pretty good player.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 27, 2008 17:18:31 GMT -5
Really guys? Of all the Knicks poor management decisions over the past decade, you want to flip out over their choice to cut the least expensive player on their roster OK, when you put it that way... no, it is not the worst decision this sorry franchise has ever made. Not sure what that would be, there are so many boneheaded, expensive moves with negative salary cap implications that have set the Knicks back years and years. Or how about telling Ron Artest -- local star from SJU -- that you are going to take him in the draft. Then, the very next day, take French Center Frederick Weis instead, passing on an available Artest. Far too many bad decisions to choose from, and on that scale, Ewing Jr. is a blip. But, have a high spirited, fun, athletic fan favorite on the team? That can't hurt.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Oct 27, 2008 17:41:13 GMT -5
Ewings cut is just a blip in the larger picture. But arent the knicks trying to win back fans and build a better team. They havent dont the latter so they could at least try to do the former. The difference between Roberson and Ewing is 400k this season which is a lot of money but in relation to every other stupid choice its nothing. But the difference between roberson and ewing is also that no one cares if Roberson is on the team but alot of people care that ewing has been cut. there will never be a story line of "Knicks keep Roberson, improve back court" because every news out let is going to go with "Ewing Jr cut, knicks lose fan favorite"
as to why we, this board, cares so much? Well Ewing went to Georgetown. thats the only reason I care. the knicks could win every game this season or lose every game this season and it wont make any difference to me. but if pat or jeff or roy has a great night im interested. heck im interested if tyler crawford has a double double against some team from some god forsaken corner of eastern europe.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Oct 27, 2008 18:35:47 GMT -5
Ok, as a diehard fan of both teams, I can understand why everybody is upset but people are REALLY seeing things through some blue and gray-colored glasses this year. For the Knicks, it really is not a big difference maker. Even if they kept him he was never seeing the floor. This talk of lost ticket revenue/jersey sales is silly. Nobody's buying a #6 jersey of a guy who doesn't even suit up or spends his season in Reno in the D-league. If the person is a big Ewing fan, they'll get a throwback #33, not a #6. And regarding people buying tickets/tuning in to see the team on MSG Network, again a guy who never suits up is NOT going to be the difference maker, even if his last name is Ewing. They can't logically market the 15th man on their bench in any way, that would be a sign of total desperation. Ticket sales and ratings are going to be a result of whether or not the team is in the hunt for a playoff spot, not whether or not the last man on the bench has a father who is beloved. As for Knick fans being Editeded off, I mean, they (we) pretty much always are. They were just as Editeded last year when the Knicks cut Demetris Nichols from Cuse rather than Jerome James or Fred Jones. This is a story among Knicks fans for about a day. Then the season starts and everybody moves on to the next thing. I really wanted Pat to make it. Would have been great for him personally and would have reflected really well on the program too. But the truth is, if his last name wasn't Ewing he probably wouldn't have even been this close, and nobody would care when he was cut. He is NOT, as somebody said earlier, a better player than Renaldo Balkman (sorry, but Balk is a legit NBA contributor and Pat, for now, is not). The Knicks have 2 young forwards that would be ahead of Pat for the foreseeable future in Wilson Chandler--who, by the way, is going to have a breakout year so take him if you're in a deep fantasy league--and Big Gallo who they just spent a top 10 pick on. Not to mention they've got some seasoned forwards like Lee and Randolph, plus Q and (once he heals) Jared Jeffries both of whom could thrive under Mike D. Best case scenario for Pat would have been Lavar Postell ten years later, a guy at the end of the bench who really wouldn't make an impact but who fans repeatedly demand be put in the game. The savior is always at the end of the bench in MSG Like everyone else here I hope Pat lands somewhere else (D-league quite possibly), works on that outside shot and ball handling and comes back strong next year and shoves it down the Knicks throats. BUT, everybody here ripping the Knicks and saying this is a horrible move... c'mon guys, be objective. This won't hurt them on the court at all and while it might make fans mad for a day or so it'll be quickly forgotten, so it's not really detrimental off the court either. For Georgetown fans this is a big deal, but it's a footnote for the Knicks organization.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Oct 27, 2008 19:05:15 GMT -5
Yeah... definitely a much wiser decision to carry 6 guards. Good call. Moronic decision however you look at it. I'd much rather risk the 400K on Pat giving it everything he's got and improving rapidly. I think maybe a few of us have seen him do that before. Eff the Knicks. Eff Walsh. Eff James. Eff Roberson. D league or not... give PE2 a shot, a little hope and let him work. Oh... and eff the Knicks.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 27, 2008 19:34:04 GMT -5
Once again, it's not that Pat was going to be incredible -- and definitely not right away. Though I question how it is known how much he can contribute.
It's that Jerome James is never going to contribute. Never. He has no interest in contributing.
It's that Roberson can make a shot, but can't do anything else. Having a complete defensive liability on the floor is fine if the guy plays offense like Steve Nash -- Roberson is more or less Trajan Langdon.
They are not going to be good this season. I see a lot more upside in Ewing than in the other two. Roberson is too small and SG to ever be really useful. James is a lost cause. Ewing has some real potential to be useful, won't mind going to the D League, and if he's in the clubhouse, won't be a cancer like half your team.
The Knicks did this to save $400,000 and mask the fact that they signed Roberson for $800k based on a practice shooting session. To cut Roberson would be to admit a million dollar mistake.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Oct 27, 2008 19:34:48 GMT -5
Ok, as a diehard fan of both teams, I can understand why everybody is upset but people are REALLY seeing things through some blue and gray-colored glasses this year. For the Knicks, it really is not a big difference maker. Even if they kept him he was never seeing the floor. This talk of lost ticket revenue/jersey sales is silly. Nobody's buying a #6 jersey of a guy who doesn't even suit up or spends his season in Reno in the D-league. If the person is a big Ewing fan, they'll get a throwback #33, not a #6. And regarding people buying tickets/tuning in to see the team on MSG Network, again a guy who never suits up is NOT going to be the difference maker, even if his last name is Ewing. They can't logically market the 15th man on their bench in any way, that would be a sign of total desperation. Ticket sales and ratings are going to be a result of whether or not the team is in the hunt for a playoff spot, not whether or not the last man on the bench has a father who is beloved. I wasnt trying to say people are going to buy tickets specifically to see Pat, but people are going to NOT buy tickets because the Knicks keep making stupid decisions. This decision has not effect on the on court product weather you choose Pat or Roberson so why not gain back some love from the fans? If the Knicks would show their fans that they care what their fans want to see, they might get less negative press and a little more love. In a city so large they will always fill MSG but they are going to have to do more at some point to retain those fans. But Im only a Georgetown fan so I cant see it from the other side and I dont care too.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Oct 27, 2008 20:50:01 GMT -5
dumb move go out work hard pat and show em they made a mistake i remember an old hoya named jerome williams anyway best of luck to you youll be a succes in whatever you do bball or otherwise ..have the knicks made ANY good decisions in the last ten years at all ?? if they did theyd be winning some right go hoyas go patrick
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Oct 27, 2008 20:58:13 GMT -5
as the cia agent said in charlie wilsons war WE WILL SEE.... hope patrick works hard and comes back to haunt the knicks ... how can they be so dumb... seems like a no brainer ... but then i quess they HAVE NO BRAINS ...go hoyas ... go patrick SHOW THEM ...;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by strummer8526 on Oct 27, 2008 21:02:52 GMT -5
Over on the ESPN.com article, look at the comments. People are REALLY upset over this. There were a few "I'm not a Knicks fan anymore"-level posts.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Oct 27, 2008 21:30:13 GMT -5
^^^Heh, that's fine. Just a little funny to me, this thread reminds me of some of the political threads over on the blue and gray board-- people are so blinded by their allegiance that logic has taken a clear backseat and only one side of things is being considered. SF, they are keeping James for a simple reason--his contract expires at the end of next season. That's one year BEFORE Randolph, Curry, Crawford and Jeffries come off the books, ie one year prior to the time they'll be able to make a splash in free agency. Next season around the trade deadline they will send him to some team that is looking to make a free agent splash in the coming summer, ideally for a draft pick (since they don't have their own 2010 pick courtesy of the Eddy Curry trade : + a contract that's exactly one year longer. His value is not himself, it's his contract when it expires. You cut him, then you can't capitalize on his expiring deal. Roberson.... well, I haven't watched enough preseason ball to really judge, but frankly I don't think anybody here has either. The guy COULD be a good fit in D'Antoni's system simply because he can score (they say). I don't really know whether or not Roberson over Ewing was a money move or a talent move, but I do know that neither of them is going to be a factor for the Knicks, now or in the near future. Yet all of a sudden everybody on Hoyatalk is an expert talent scout and has objectively judged Roberson's skill set vs. Ewing's. I mean, c'mon. Raise your hand if you've seen Roberson play more than once since he left UF. Most people here don't have any idea what Roberson brings, yet they don't have any interest in even thinking about it, preferring instead to repeat the same things about the Knicks management. Whatever. If Pat ever makes any legitimate contributions on the NBA level, everybody here will be vindicated. But until I see that I maintain that this whole discussion is pretty much moot for everybody except Pat and Roberson themselves and us as staunch supporters of Pat.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Oct 27, 2008 21:37:40 GMT -5
Over on the ESPN.com article, look at the comments. People are REALLY upset over this. There were a few "I'm not a Knicks fan anymore"-level posts. Don't worry, Knicks fans are quick to jump off the cliff. I'm telling you guys the uproar last year at this time when they cut Demetris Nichols from Cuse was very comparable. This is a little worse because Pat Sr. is so beloved, but it'll pass soon. They beat Miami Wednesday and nobody cares anymore.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 27, 2008 21:38:35 GMT -5
Does his contract expire at the end of this season or next season? Because if it is next season, it's of no use. If it is this season, it's going to be hard to find a taker for Jerome James who has exactly one additional year of ultra crappy player to deal and wants to be in on a weak FA year and not one of the strongest in history.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Oct 27, 2008 21:47:12 GMT -5
Unless I'm mistaken it's end of next year. Marbury and Rose off the books this year, Jerome and Q next year. That means he comes off the books right in time for the 2010 free agent class which, again unless I'm mistaken, includes LeBron, Melo, Bosh etc. So having a big contract coming off the books in time for that class is an asset. I expect that next year around the trade deadline they will send him to some cap conscious team (like a Phoenix or somebody) in exchange for a contract that expires in 2011 + a draft pick. That's a win-win, because the other team will get Jerome off the books and gain a lot of cap space to make a run at somebody like Bosh, and the Knicks don't lose anything since they won't be under the cap by 2010 anyway and they gain a first rounder by taking on an additional year of somebody's contract.
Until then Fat Jerome will kick it at the end of the bench in a suit. He has basically said he doesn't care as long as he gets paid.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Oct 27, 2008 22:34:54 GMT -5
sirsaxa -- will do! My dad (Knicks season tix holder and diehard) will be with me.
jgalt -- GREAT sign idea, man.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 27, 2008 23:06:49 GMT -5
^^^Heh, that's fine. Just a little funny to me, this thread reminds me of some of the political threads over on the blue and gray board-- people are so blinded by their allegiance that logic has taken a clear backseat and only one side of things is being considered. SF, they are keeping James for a simple reason--his contract expires at the end of next season. That's one year BEFORE Randolph, Curry, Crawford and Jeffries come off the books, ie one year prior to the time they'll be able to make a splash in free agency. Next season around the trade deadline they will send him to some team that is looking to make a free agent splash in the coming summer, ideally for a draft pick (since they don't have their own 2010 pick courtesy of the Eddy Curry trade : + a contract that's exactly one year longer. His value is not himself, it's his contract when it expires. You cut him, then you can't capitalize on his expiring deal. Roberson.... well, I haven't watched enough preseason ball to really judge, but frankly I don't think anybody here has either. The guy COULD be a good fit in D'Antoni's system simply because he can score (they say). I don't really know whether or not Roberson over Ewing was a money move or a talent move, but I do know that neither of them is going to be a factor for the Knicks, now or in the near future. Yet all of a sudden everybody on Hoyatalk is an expert talent scout and has objectively judged Roberson's skill set vs. Ewing's. I mean, c'mon. Raise your hand if you've seen Roberson play more than once since he left UF. Most people here don't have any idea what Roberson brings, yet they don't have any interest in even thinking about it, preferring instead to repeat the same things about the Knicks management. Whatever. If Pat ever makes any legitimate contributions on the NBA level, everybody here will be vindicated. But until I see that I maintain that this whole discussion is pretty much moot for everybody except Pat and Roberson themselves and us as staunch supporters of Pat. I've seen Anthony Roberson play since HS--he is a friggin piece of GARBAGE who has been overrated and has no clue how to make others better--which is why Florida got better the minute clowns like him left their program. It wasn't a coincedence that immediately after he departed--they won the National Title 2 years in a row with guys who were committed to winning and playing together.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Oct 27, 2008 23:17:47 GMT -5
there's a reason why the knicks haven't won a championship in almost 40 years. they hire bad coaches, draft the wrong players, trade for players with bad attitudes, pay way too much, etc... . they had a chance to redeem themselves by bringing on a great kid with good upside. damn fools.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Oct 28, 2008 5:09:40 GMT -5
dumb just dumb werent they at his last game when he was awesome?? dumb just dumb there lost but heck its the knicks
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