The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Apr 14, 2008 10:04:03 GMT -5
An important thing to note about Chris is that he didn't want the LD excuse. According to the article he resisted being tested as long as he could. So I don't think he's using it as a loophole to get past the NCAA rules. Of course, that Syracuse alum that wrote the NY Times piece on Egerson will probably hear "LD" and immediately go off to write a piece on how Georgetown is using the LD loophole to get academically ineligible basketball players into their school.
As for Braswell, I think we're just going to have to wait and see. The academic environment at Georgetown might indeed be too rigorous for him, and if that's true it's a shame, but like SFHoya said, nobody gets hurt. On the other hand, with his learning disability properly diagnosed, he might find that he's a lot smarter than he thought he was. I don't think anybody's expecting the second coming of Jon Wallace in academic terms, but it's certainly not a stretch to imagine him carrying his own weight in the classroom at Georgetown.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 14, 2008 11:21:37 GMT -5
Braswell seems like the guy we've been missing for a while - a rugged 6'8" guy who wants to crash the boards. If that's "all" he contributes, I'd be thrilled. He also seems to have decent ball handling and touch for a big guy, but I don't think that's a big part of his game. Actually it is part of his game. He has a very good handle for a big guy and according to info provided during the game he averaged 4 assists per contest at Hargrave. That's a very impressive number for a big man. He's a legit option to help break the press off the dribble. I should have been more precise in my wording. Actually, I was very impressed with his handle and his ability on the perimeter - it wasn't a part of his game I'd heard anything about and it wasn't an aspect I was expecting to see. That being said, I think the team would be best off with him being a banger and an option down low. However, in the GU offense, we know we'll see him all over the place.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Apr 14, 2008 12:22:52 GMT -5
An important thing to note about Chris is that he didn't want the LD excuse. According to the article he resisted being tested as long as he could. So I don't think he's using it as a loophole to get past the NCAA rules. Of course, that Syracuse alum that wrote the NY Times piece on Egerson will probably hear "LD" and immediately go off to write a piece on how Georgetown is using the LD loophole to get academically ineligible basketball players into their school. As for Braswell, I think we're just going to have to wait and see. The academic environment at Georgetown might indeed be too rigorous for him, and if that's true it's a shame, but like SFHoya said, nobody gets hurt. On the other hand, with his learning disability properly diagnosed, he might find that he's a lot smarter than he thought he was. I don't think anybody's expecting the second coming of Jon Wallace in academic terms, but it's certainly not a stretch to imagine him carrying his own weight in the classroom at Georgetown. I should say that comments were of the general variety, not specific to this case. It's a lousy situation for every kid who's good at basketball and football who is truly LD, because there's a natural question of whether someone is trying to cheat the system. Questions like this are why college athletics makes me a little sick to my stomach. When you're rooting for someone to pass a history test, something's wrong.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Apr 14, 2008 12:51:04 GMT -5
Chris has added more versatility to his game, but the people I talk to would like to see him down on the block more than out on the perimeter. I think he knows he's not a perimeter guy, but has improved his passing and handle somewhat. I think he has nice form, but can't fall in love with the jumper.
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Post by hoyas4life on Apr 14, 2008 13:41:40 GMT -5
Good luck with your studies Chris. We look forward to welcoming you to Georgetown!
Also, lic mentioned that Iverson graduated. is this common knowledge? I have always been curious whether allen actually did come back to graduate
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 14, 2008 14:41:26 GMT -5
Fair points, I apologize for the rashness. And the supportiveness is important, I agree. As for the Egerson thing... I guess you all can disagree, but I thought it was pretty embarrassing. Per the NY Times: "What Binghamton officials did not know, and what few have talked about amid this feel-good week here, is that Thompson and Broadus recruited a player to Georgetown who in four years of public high school in Delaware compiled final grades of F in 12 courses. That player was Marc Egerson, who had a grade-point average of 1.33 in core courses like math, science and English. He passed nine such courses without receiving a grade higher than a C. As a freshman, he even failed physical education." For a very respectable institute of higher learning, one that prides itself on top-notch students and faculty, the whole thing certainly seemed to me like a case of a university basing its choice purely on basketball rather than even a semblance of being a student athlete. Of course, it's a very different situation from Braswell. And if we're splitting hairs, I suppose it was just a "PR" debacle, but still. TJM, don't apologize for anything you wrote. It makes sense to me. I was personally embarassed by the whole Egerson situation and mad too. Any kid who failed 12 courses in high school, does not belong at Georgetown University, period. If you fail phys ed classes that shows nothing but laziness and a lack of basic discipline. On top of that he attended a fake high school to qualify for college! Anyone who can honestly say Egerson belonged at Georgetown has got some serious blue & gray blinders on. I am not apologizing for that view, once the facts came out on Egerson I felt a lot worse about Georgetown accepting him than anything I ever saw on a basketball court. There is an obvious bias on this board and frankly I am surprised by the attacks on you, but I appreciate your honest remarks because I have the same concern. I think it is silly that we should all be expected to have the same view on this, we all have different backgrounds and experiences and thus a different point of view. As for this specific case, yeah, I feel hesitant too about Braswell. I clearly do not see him as another Egerson but I have my reservations. I read an awful lot about the need for discipline in that article and that gave me pause. LD or not, I want students at Georgetown that have self discipline on their own without a need for outside discipline. The timing of admitting his LD is also curious. Sure he could have been embarassed and maybe he was but is it so bad to at least look at the other POV and wonder why wait until all of the new NCAA regs have come to admit this? I am not going to sit here and say Braswell does not belong at GU but I am not out of line for admitting my concern. Also, for anyone pretending that the LD issue is not being used to get some players qualified by the NCAA, you really have your head in the sand. It is a little too big of a coincidence that the jump in reported cases of LDs and the new NCAA regulations happened to occur at the same time.
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balla
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Post by balla on Apr 14, 2008 14:55:34 GMT -5
Fair points, I apologize for the rashness. And the supportiveness is important, I agree. As for the Egerson thing... I guess you all can disagree, but I thought it was pretty embarrassing. Per the NY Times: "What Binghamton officials did not know, and what few have talked about amid this feel-good week here, is that Thompson and Broadus recruited a player to Georgetown who in four years of public high school in Delaware compiled final grades of F in 12 courses. That player was Marc Egerson, who had a grade-point average of 1.33 in core courses like math, science and English. He passed nine such courses without receiving a grade higher than a C. As a freshman, he even failed physical education." For a very respectable institute of higher learning, one that prides itself on top-notch students and faculty, the whole thing certainly seemed to me like a case of a university basing its choice purely on basketball rather than even a semblance of being a student athlete. Of course, it's a very different situation from Braswell. And if we're splitting hairs, I suppose it was just a "PR" debacle, but still. TJM, don't apologize for anything you wrote. It makes sense to me. I was personally embarassed by the whole Egerson situation and mad too. Any kid who failed 12 courses in high school, does not belong at Georgetown University, period. If you fail phys ed classes that shows nothing but laziness and a lack of basic discipline. On top of that he attended a fake high school to qualify for college! Anyone who can honestly say Egerson belonged at Georgetown has got some serious blue & gray blinders on. I am not apologizing for that view, once the facts came out on Egerson I felt a lot worse about Georgetown accepting him than anything I ever saw on a basketball court. There is an obvious bias on this board and frankly I am surprised by the attacks on you, but I appreciate your honest remarks because I have the same concern. I think it is silly that we should all be expected to have the same view on this, we all have different backgrounds and experiences and thus a different point of view. As for this specific case, yeah, I feel hesitant too about Braswell. I clearly do not see him as another Egerson but I have my reservations. I read an awful lot about the need for discipline in that article and that gave me pause. LD or not, I want students at Georgetown that have self discipline on their own without a need for outside discipline. The timing of admitting his LD is also curious. Sure he could have been embarassed and maybe he was but is it so bad to at least look at the other POV and wonder why wait until all of the new NCAA regs have come to admit this? I am not going to sit here and say Braswell does not belong at GU but I am not out of line for admitting my concern. Also, for anyone pretending that the LD issue is not being used to get some players qualified by the NCAA, you really have your head in the sand. It is a little too big of a coincidence that the jump in reported cases of LDs and the new NCAA regulations happened to occur at the same time. Since nobody in the GU program gives a damn about your level of embarrassment, you should really cheer for quality programs like ucon or cuse. It is nice to know that you are an expert on Braswel. You and your buddy clearly do not have a clue. If JT3 was making a basketball decision, he would have pulled Braswell's scholly and given it to a better player(with out any grade issues) a longtime ago. Braswell needs GU more than GU needs Braswell, and it speaks volumes that III is sticking with the kid. III has always been a much better person than I, because I would pink slip my grandma if she would under-perform on Christmas-eve.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 14, 2008 15:53:02 GMT -5
Balla--I don't think anyone at the GU program gives a damn about what you would do w/ his schollie. But while we're talking about his scholarship as if we know anything, What "better player" would we have given Braswell's schollie too? I haven't read on here about any better player that we have passed on b/c there were no scholarships available.
TJM and NCH aren't wrong. And if the best answer anyone can muster is that the program doesn't care about my opinion--of fact of which I am well aware--then that shows a total lack of a counter-argument. All they're saying is that GU needs to cover its ass and make sure everything is above board, the kid is legitimate, that that he will work as hard as he needs to in order for our program and school to keep the respect that its earned.
And to be honest, if JTIII could have found a better basketball player AND the kid is academically not at the level GU would admit anyway, then quite frankly, I wish either JTIII or the admissions office would hold itself to the standard set for either high athletic OR academic expectations. I don't really care to see GU as a charity stop for inferior basketball players who can't remember what they read. A quality ballplayer that we want on the team (which is what I hope Chris is) then yeah, you make academic allowances. And if a lower level ballplayer has some academic merit, then go for it. Why are we suddenly imagining that GU should be a pit stop for lost boys who don't have either quality? (WHICH IS NOT what I'm saying Chris is. I think he's one of the best 4 ballplayers that JTIII could land for this year, and that's why he has a well-earned scholarship.)
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balla
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Post by balla on Apr 14, 2008 15:57:59 GMT -5
Balla--I don't think anyone at the GU program gives a damn about what you would do w/ his schollie. But while we're talking about his scholarship as if we know anything, What "better player" would we have given Braswell's schollie too? I haven't read on here about any better player that we have passed on b/c there were no scholarships available. TJM and NCH aren't wrong. And if the best answer anyone can muster is that the program doesn't care about my opinion--of fact of which I am well aware--then that shows a total lack of a counter-argument. All they're saying is that GU needs to cover its ass and make sure everything is above board, the kid is legitimate, that that he will work as hard as he needs to in order for our program and school to keep the respect that its earned. And to be honest, if JTIII could have found a better basketball player AND the kid is academically not at the level GU would admit anyway, then quite frankly, I wish either JTIII or the admissions office would hold itself to the standard set for either high athletic OR academic expectations. I don't really care to see GU as a charity stop for inferior basketball players who can't remember what they read. A quality ballplayer that we want on the team (which is what I hope Chris is) then yeah, you make academic allowances. And if a lower level ballplayer has some academic merit, then go for it. Why are we suddenly imagining that GU should be a pit stop for lost boys who don't have either quality? I disclose recruiting info on a need to know basis, and you don't need to know crap. Now go back to your little law class and vent about the speaking abilities of HS kids. Don't want any of these guys hurting your chance for advancement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 16:05:27 GMT -5
I don't really care to see GU as a charity stop for inferior basketball players who can't remember what they read. Amen, strummer - that's what Syracuse is for.
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balla
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Post by balla on Apr 14, 2008 16:09:39 GMT -5
No, cuse is for players interested in getting into fights at gay bars.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 14, 2008 16:10:35 GMT -5
Balla--I don't think anyone at the GU program gives a damn about what you would do w/ his schollie. But while we're talking about his scholarship as if we know anything, What "better player" would we have given Braswell's schollie too? I haven't read on here about any better player that we have passed on b/c there were no scholarships available. TJM and NCH aren't wrong. And if the best answer anyone can muster is that the program doesn't care about my opinion--of fact of which I am well aware--then that shows a total lack of a counter-argument. All they're saying is that GU needs to cover its ass and make sure everything is above board, the kid is legitimate, that that he will work as hard as he needs to in order for our program and school to keep the respect that its earned. And to be honest, if JTIII could have found a better basketball player AND the kid is academically not at the level GU would admit anyway, then quite frankly, I wish either JTIII or the admissions office would hold itself to the standard set for either high athletic OR academic expectations. I don't really care to see GU as a charity stop for inferior basketball players who can't remember what they read. A quality ballplayer that we want on the team (which is what I hope Chris is) then yeah, you make academic allowances. And if a lower level ballplayer has some academic merit, then go for it. Why are we suddenly imagining that GU should be a pit stop for lost boys who don't have either quality? (WHICH IS NOT what I'm saying Chris is. I think he's one of the best 4 ballplayers that JTIII could land for this year, and that's why he has a well-earned scholarship.) They are wrong and so are you because you don't know all of the details about about the braswell situation, or even the egerson situation. Neither do I, but that's the point. Aside from the coaching staff, some people in athletics and admissions, no one knows all of the details. And if people are making assumptions about this and about that without knowing all of the facts, they I think they're completely wrong to do so, especially when it comes to a kid in high school, his academic background, and a learning disability. Please don't act like every student at GU other than those in the basketball program are all 4.0 valedictorians. I was a teaching assistant when I was an undergrad and I worked with several students in special programs that the university had set up to help those with learning disabilities - many of whom you never would have imagined would be at GU except for legacy connections or otherwise. Read this passage from the '80 SI piece on JT2: If you want to disagree with that approach, that's your right. However, I'm proud of our program's track record, as well as what JT2, Esherick and JT3 have stood for with respect to student athletes. If JT3 and the coaches are ok with Braswell (knowing what they know), then so am I.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 14, 2008 16:22:38 GMT -5
1. I'm still going to trust the staff and admissions over two random people on a message board with no information.
I realize the staff/admissions are hardly infalliable -- but so are you, and frankly, they have an immense amount of information compared to the pittance shown by some on this board, who apparently don't even know about learning disabilities in general, let alone Chris' situation in specific.
Their track record, btw, is exceptional. For every PR disaster of Egerson, there's a DJ Owens, a Jeff Green, etc.
2. Strummer, you're completely off point. The staff took a commitment from Braswell and so far he has lived up to his end of the bargain, even transferring to a military academy to try to do so. To ditch him because something better comes along after you've made a commitment is something coaches like Calhoun does. It would be one thing if we had not accepted Braswell's verbal. Then the scholarship is still open. But it's nice the staff kept its word.
3. I laughed so hard at the discipline stuff. That's a joke.
I have no personal discipline myself (obviously). I couldn't have done a military academy. One of my better friends from school didn't do homework his senior year. Another GU grad I've met since leaving school came close to flunking out his freshman year. Another guy I knew at school missed 65% of his classes at least.
I also knew people who worked their asses off.
All are successful.
More importantly, I knew two people with diagnosed LDs at GU -- one severe, one very light. GU accomodated both; both graduated and are doing well in their respective fields.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 14, 2008 16:29:31 GMT -5
As a student of GU with a diagnosed Learning Disability i can confirm that it is possible to maintain the high academic standard of GU. Now that has required lots of effort and hard work on my part and does not come easy. I know nothing about the Braswell situation more than what is in that post article (Just like all of you) so i will only refer to my own situation. The more work and activities that i have, the better i perform- structure and disciplined scheduling are the key to success (for me). My level of "intelligence" is not limited by learning disability as some have suggested on this board (in fact some recent studies have show the possibility that some LDs are linked to higher intelligence- the race car driver example before is good example and so is Richard Branson, of Virgin records fame, who is diagnosed Dyslexic and ADD). Its take more time and effort for me to produced the same quality of "output" as other students but it doesn not prevent me from doing so. Much of my success has hinged on my own efforts to focus on my work, but there are a multitude of resources open to ALL students as GU who need them.
It is pretty stupid to assume that students with LDs are not able to perform academically at the same level as other students, especially with the huge amount of studies and information that have been accrued on the subject. Success in academics (or any other area of life) for students with LDs, however, take effort on the part of the student and, like every other student, a choice must be made by the individual to attempt to succeed, to put in the effort required- if this willingness is not there then there can be no success, but this is hardly a unique characteristic to students with LDs
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balla
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Post by balla on Apr 14, 2008 16:38:25 GMT -5
As a student of GU with a diagnosed Learning Disability i can confirm that it is possible to maintain the high academic standard of GU. Now that has required lots of effort and hard work on my part and does not come easy. I know nothing about the Braswell situation more than what is in that post article (Just like all of you) so i will only refer to my own situation. The more work and activities that i have, the better i perform- structure and disciplined scheduling are the key to success (for me). My level of "intelligence" is not limited by learning disability as some have suggested on this board (in fact some recent studies have show the possibility that some LDs are linked to higher intelligence- the race car driver example before is good example and so is Richard Branson, of Virgin records fame, who is diagnosed Dyslexic and ADD). Its take more time and effort for me to produced the same quality of "output" as other students but it doesn not prevent me from doing so. Much of my success has hinged on my own efforts to focus on my work, but there are a multitude of resources open to ALL students as GU who need them. It is pretty stupid to assume that students with LDs are not able to perform academically at the same level as other students, especially with the huge amount of studies and information that have been accrued on the subject. Success in academics (or any other area of life) for students with LDs, however, take effort on the part of the student and, like every other student, a choice must be made by the individual to attempt to succeed, to put in the effort required- if this willingness is not there then there can be no success, but this is hardly a unique characteristic to students with LDs Plus jgalt pulls the hottest chicks on M street. With a pimp-hand that strong you are undeniably a Hoya. Some skillz can't be measured by standardized test ;D
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on Apr 14, 2008 16:42:44 GMT -5
strummer, balla wasn't saying that there was another better player to give his schollie to... and therefore I don't understand this rant about giving scholarships to players who aren't up to standards both academically and basketballwise.... What is this? Obvious day at camp stupid? I don't think anyone on this board is asking JTIII to admit non-athletic dumb individuals, and if you thought so, obviously you misunderstood. Instead, balla was saying that if he (Chris) wasn't up to task on either he wouldn't have been accepted by JTIII, and therefore JTIII would've found someone who was, but JTIII stuck with him, so there must be a reason for it.
Thank you kc, I think you've shed light on the confusion this thread has become... It's clear there are people who know much more about the situation than those who are second-guessing it
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on Apr 14, 2008 16:45:59 GMT -5
Thank you jgalt... I guess some people just don't seem to get the fact that having LD does not mean you're dumb. Wow...
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 14, 2008 16:50:59 GMT -5
SF, not sure how the discipline stuff is a joke, what should we use as a predictor of future behavior . . . test scores? You don't want to go down that route do you? There is always going to be a maturation process but to just dismiss the notion that self discipline is important to function in college is a joke, personality of a person counts. Jeff Green, among so many others, is a perfect example of a guy that may not have been the best student coming to GU, but his own personal attributes (one being self discipline) allowed him to succeed.
Like I wrote everyone has different perspectives, I never said any of the previous posts are wrong so why the need to disparage or somehow belittle mine makes little sense to me. I never even wrote that I do not want Braswell at GU or prefer someone else get the schollie. The ONLY thing I wrote was that I was embarassed of the Egerson situation and I hope not to see that again at Gtown and that I appreciate TJM's post for bringing up real issues rather than just echo the company line.
I am not really sure what the problem is with TMJ, Strummer or my posts. Somehow it is "wrong" to have a contrary opinion, write anything even remotely negative about our recruiting history or point out our concern, not hostility or disrespect to Braswell, just our concern.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 14, 2008 17:03:40 GMT -5
Thank you jgalt... I guess some people just don't seem to get the fact that having LD does not mean you're dumb. Wow... I guess I am still confused about finding a post where someone said or implied people with LD are dumb. No one has even remotely wrote that. Geez, two random people express concern about simply accepting everything written in the local paper as a fact, and everyone gets all sensitive.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 14, 2008 17:05:49 GMT -5
NC, the "that's a joke" line was harsh - I'm sorry for that. But I do think the idea that discipline being something all GU students have is kinda funny to me -- b/c I saw firsthand that is isn't true. These are all 17/18 year old kids to start, and an overwhelming majority of them don't have an incredible amount of discipline.
What is "wrong" with all your posts? I guess the only thing that is wrong is that I and others disagree. I'm not quite sure why you think you are being persecuted here -- what, would you guys like to post your dissenting opinions without anyone being able to respond?
If you're through pretending that people disagreeing with you is some kind of persecution, yes, I can outline why I disagree with each of the posts in general and specific.
1. The original post had an outright lack of knowledge of learning disabilities and how they affect people. It showed a complete lack of respect for Chris as a person, as well, in my opinion.
2. The Egerson situation is a funny one. Again, the original poster pointed it out as some kind of fiasco. I guess it was a PR fiasco. I don't really care. While I would rather never take another player from a diploma mill, I also recognize that something made the staff willing to take Egerson. And from their other actions, they really don't seem like win at all costs folk. Maybe they believed in him.
When Egerson left, he was in good academic standing. So yeah, you were ashamed by the news articles, and I agree it doesn't make the university look good, but let's not pretend it was for Egerson's or Braswell's benefit that the argument came up, okay, like tjm did?
Personally, I don't care much about the press.
3. Strummer's post is just completely wrong. Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, he believes we should have taken a commitment from Braswell, then cut bait completely on the kid when another player with better academics and similar play came along.
I personally find that kind of attitude towards a verbal agreement much mroe reprehensible than admitting a kid with borderline grades. But that's just me.
4. Lastly, to get specific with Jeff, Darrel and Chris... Jeff wasn't qualified until halfway through the Summer until he came. DJ was one of the last partial qualifiers and couldn't play his freshman year. Jeff apparently didn't have the discipline to get his passing score earlier, right? And DJ didn't have the discipline to get good grades to make basic NCAA requirements -- which are laughably low.
Yet somehow, Jeff will get his degree and DJ has a masters.
And Chris Braswell, who chose to go to a military academy as a commitment to academics and even made their honor roll, apparently it is time to cut bait on him?
5. And if you guys supposedly aren't proposing that -- if you're just saying the University should be careful -- you're doing it in the wrong venue and the wrong place and the wrong time. You're phrasing your words generically, but it doesn't take a genius to see this is a Chris Braswell thread, right after a Chris Braswell article, etc. What do you hope to accomplish here?
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