hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 10, 2008 5:56:27 GMT -5
It is not that his shot is off, he seems to not be as agressive. I agree we don't go far with out him, but when your quarterback disappears, never drives to the hoop, and has trouble with a quick guard..... it is time for concern..... I wish he would shoot more, but each game it seems less and less... am going to check the stats.. Exactly, so true
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 10, 2008 5:59:44 GMT -5
Royski, sorry buddy, but Wallace is the type of guy who is likely to cause you, as the author of this thread, major embarassment come March. Last year, during the Big East Tournament, I had the pleasure of *bumping* a "Jeff Green Has No Heart" thread that was started after last year's Duke game. The typical response to people like me, who say that HoyaTalkers tend to exagerrate and unfairly place blame on student-athletes, is that this is an internet talk board and is, therefore, a place for venting and critical analysis. Thats absolutely true. But its also a place where your harsh comments are stored forever, and can always be referenced at a later, more important time when the games count and our Hoyas come through. GO HOYAS. Fans like this are FULL OF CRAP. Jeff Green STUNK the early part of last year--and how did the team perform? When he got AGGRESSIVE--how did they play? So the people who were on him for being too passive "ate their words" or were they 1000000000% CORRECT IN THE FRIGGIN' FIRST PLACE? Keep dreaming about the "Wallace making people eat their words" while I'm hoping he gets the film, and decides enough is enough and gets after it on the court--you know in terms of actually ADDRESSING the problem with his play--not hoping it goes away in some sort of friggin "SR Dream Movie-like ending". You know 300+ other teams have SENIORS too--and how does their season end? We all want Wallace and Hoyas to do well-it's just some of us want the problem areas addressed--not avoided to keep someone's feelings from being hurt. RDF is so true, yes indeed, right on point man
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 10, 2008 6:02:29 GMT -5
The play that symbolized the entire game--Wallace firing a pass to Dajuan in the corner and it goes to Williams of Louisville and Summers gives him a "WTF WAS THAT" look and chirps at him. Now that proves that Wallace is becoming gunshy-when fans talk about it--it's one thing. When your teammates start to get on your ass a bit--then you have to find some way to get out of whatever is going on. Law school is next year for Wallace--he's got games left to find his game/shot-and contribute-but it's not as if it's going to happen because we all like Jon and want it to--he's got to find some ways to contribute and I'd settle for him getting this team running the offense--it's brutal to watch 3 guys throw it around the horn 30-35 feet from hoop--what does that do other then allow defense to rest? Yes, RDF, when Jon penetrated Roy was right there and he threw the ball over in the corner and turned it over I was like WTF myself. No vision, the low basketball IQ is there definitely
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hoyas2006
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 377
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Post by hoyas2006 on Feb 10, 2008 8:39:07 GMT -5
a qyote from last night i wasn't aware of
"wallace hasn't made a 3 this month"
where in the world is wally?
unreal.....
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,946
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Post by Massholya on Feb 10, 2008 9:41:29 GMT -5
Wallace is not playing well right now. However, the whole point of our offense is that that shouldn't matter. The real problem is that no one other than Roy and Pat lately has really been playing that great either. Dajuan was 2-9 last night and his shot seems to get flatter and flatter by the game (he's going to need to vastly improve that for the next level or he's going to get swatted out of the gym); JR seems as if he is once again afraid to shoot from the outside. Sapp has been decent but streaky shooting-wise. And when Roy, AF, and JW sub out usually at about the 8 minute mark the only scoring options we really have on the floor are jesse and pat. in my opinion what is hurting this team most right now is the loss of Chris Wright. We now really only go 3 deep on the bench and it's a 3 that doesn't really offer much in way of a change in tempo.
Despite that this team is well above "average" in the big east. When we are hitting our outside shots, there aren't going to be many teams in the big east or even the country that we can't beat. When everyone is cold as has happened a few times in the past few weeks, things are going to be much more touch and go - especially without a change of pace type guard to bring off the bench. I do agree, though, that when we aren't getting the looks we want we need to do a much better job of snapping the passes around the perimeter. There were times our offense looked very Eshereckian last night, albeit against a good defensive team. We simply must be able to be more creative.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 9:56:38 GMT -5
If he must sit, Rivers must not get off the bus. LMAO at that one Yeah, I know I was chuckling when I wrote it. Gallows humor is the best right? Oh I know what's better - treating a message board like an IM chat.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 9:57:42 GMT -5
It is not that his shot is off, he seems to not be as agressive. I agree we don't go far with out him, but when your quarterback disappears, never drives to the hoop, and has trouble with a quick guard..... it is time for concern..... I wish he would shoot more, but each game it seems less and less... am going to check the stats.. Exactly, so true AMEN! Thanks for adding your assent to his argument, I'm sure it made him feel better.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 9:58:17 GMT -5
Fans like this are FULL OF CRAP. Jeff Green STUNK the early part of last year--and how did the team perform? When he got AGGRESSIVE--how did they play? So the people who were on him for being too passive "ate their words" or were they 1000000000% CORRECT IN THE FRIGGIN' FIRST PLACE? Keep dreaming about the "Wallace making people eat their words" while I'm hoping he gets the film, and decides enough is enough and gets after it on the court--you know in terms of actually ADDRESSING the problem with his play--not hoping it goes away in some sort of friggin "SR Dream Movie-like ending". You know 300+ other teams have SENIORS too--and how does their season end? We all want Wallace and Hoyas to do well-it's just some of us want the problem areas addressed--not avoided to keep someone's feelings from being hurt. RDF is so true, yes indeed, right on point man Wow. Why don't you two get some milkshakes, sandwiches, and a room together already?
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 9:59:01 GMT -5
The play that symbolized the entire game--Wallace firing a pass to Dajuan in the corner and it goes to Williams of Louisville and Summers gives him a "WTF WAS THAT" look and chirps at him. Now that proves that Wallace is becoming gunshy-when fans talk about it--it's one thing. When your teammates start to get on your ass a bit--then you have to find some way to get out of whatever is going on. Law school is next year for Wallace--he's got games left to find his game/shot-and contribute-but it's not as if it's going to happen because we all like Jon and want it to--he's got to find some ways to contribute and I'd settle for him getting this team running the offense--it's brutal to watch 3 guys throw it around the horn 30-35 feet from hoop--what does that do other then allow defense to rest? Yes, RDF, when Jon penetrated Roy was right there and he threw the ball over in the corner and turned it over I was like WTF myself. No vision, the low basketball IQ is there definitely Yes. That's right, it's all about penetration isn't it, little buddy?
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 10:01:37 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been reading, but Rivers gets plenty of run as a whipping boy on this board. He has limitations just like all the other guards on this team do. He is the best (and biggest) on-ball defender of the three guard rotation. He was not the only culprit with boneheaded turnovers tonight: Sapp and Freeman each had 3 TOs as well. My point is that to say that somehow he is getting playing time because the coach knows his father is a NBA coach is ludicrous and totally out of character with anything we know about Coach Thompson. As for thread titles, we are discussing college students here. The moderators reserve the right to alter thread titles that are needlessly disparaging of them. Yes sir, definitely Absolutely, I like Dan too.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 10, 2008 10:03:15 GMT -5
Yes, RDF, when Jon penetrated Roy was right there and he threw the ball over in the corner and turned it over I was like WTF myself. No vision, the low basketball IQ is there definitely Yes. That's right, it's all about penetration isn't it, little buddy? LOL. That was so funny. I am so good. Unlike Rivers. He's not good. If anyone disagrees with me I'll post 7 times in a row.
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hoyanick
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 417
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Post by hoyanick on Feb 10, 2008 10:15:37 GMT -5
Again--I guess Jon Wallace was the only guy to do a thing in that East Regional Game. Listen-what shade of lipstick does 90% of this site use to give Jon his "human fanning"? Here's the new rules 1. You can critique anyone NOT named Jon Wallace because he hit a shot to tie a game that wouldn't have been possible if not for the kids who ARE allowed to be critqued. 2. If you do critcize the play of team/players--you aren't a real fan. 3. If you don't worship at the alter of Wallace--then you are not a Hoya fan. 4. If you bring actual basketball discussion instead of excuses--you are behaving "out of line" and not providing the proper temperature that is required to be performing the "human fan" to the precious Jon Wallace who is above any criticism. For people who don't like reality--go watch DVD's of last year and leave discussion as to how THIS YEAR's team can improve to the fans who actually watch the games and don't live in Wallace-Town. Really? I thought the promulgation went something like this: 1. RDF is always right. 2. Adding phrases like "FIND SOME GAME" add a sense of streetball legitimacy to your argument. 3. Georgetown University student-athletes are subject to all the vitriol of Monday-morning quarterbacks and internet sleazeballs. They deserve it when they miss shots. Because, you know, we are entitled to a championship team. All those who do not follow these rules are "FULL OF CRAP FANS".
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Feb 10, 2008 10:49:54 GMT -5
This is a dumb argument
You don't think that Jon himself would disagree with the criticism? In order to be an elite team we need all of our pieces to be playing at an elite level and Jon was a weak link last night. However we know that he is capable of excelence so I'm not giving up hope that he will contribute in the end.
That said if he can't create his own shot the rest of the team needs to recognize this and have movement with out the ball to keep a zone honest. What might have helped if we went with two post up options (like Roy and Vern) and draw more of the offense away and let our shooters get more open shots
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
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Post by hoyabinx on Feb 10, 2008 10:57:13 GMT -5
[ Really? I thought the promulgation went something like this: 1. RDF is always right. 2. Adding phrases like "FIND SOME GAME" add a sense of streetball legitimacy to your argument. 3. Georgetown University student-athletes are subject to all the vitriol of Monday-morning quarterbacks and internet sleazeballs. They deserve it when they miss shots. Because, you know, we are entitled to a championship team. All those who do not follow these rules are "FULL OF CRAP FANS". That is perfect. hahaha.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2008 12:28:44 GMT -5
[/quote]
Really? I thought the promulgation went something like this:
1. RDF is always right.
2. Adding phrases like "FIND SOME GAME" add a sense of streetball legitimacy to your argument.
3. Georgetown University student-athletes are subject to all the vitriol of Monday-morning quarterbacks and internet sleazeballs. They deserve it when they miss shots. Because, you know, we are entitled to a championship team.
All those who do not follow these rules are "FULL OF CRAP FANS".[/quote]
1. It's not about right/wrong--it's about watching the team play, and evaluating their play according to the goals of the program. If you want to be in NCAA's and just be better then Esherick Era--then I'm happy as can be. Just don't lie and say you want to win the Big East, and National Title and play like this. If that is your goal--the level of play isn't cutting it. It's easy to base everything off wins/losses--it's another to see problems when you are winning and know that it'll lead to losses. I'll just say this--it's comical how upset posts make people when you bring up reality.
2. "find some game" isn't streetball terminology-it's basketball terminology. Then again--why would that be understood by a vocal majority who think everyone should be based on "leadership" and "ppg" on the Ken Pomeroy Index, while making reservations to the Chocolate Forrest and Peppermint Castle on their way to Lunardi Land?
3. Georgetown Student Athletes "can't be criticized" if they have names that start with "Jon" and end with "Wallace". Everyone else is fair game. If you do criticize the "precious one" you will be subjected to mock posts, declarations that you aren't a fan, and reminders of a shot hit last year against UNC as proof he's playing great THIS season.
We all want the Hoyas to win and play better. It's just some of us actually realize that it must improve through hard work and commitment and not from a bunch of idiots jumping up and down to Zombie Nation and looking at Lunardi/Pomeroy as the "Great Oz" of CBB.
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butler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 117
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Post by butler on Feb 10, 2008 13:08:43 GMT -5
Somewhere along the way in this debate we lost track of the salient fact that Jon has not played well this year. Whether this is the forum to criticize (I think it is) and whether his minutes should go to someone else (I dont think so given the lack of other options with Chris hurt) is debatable, but that he has played poorly really is not. As I said in a previous thread, Jon has two particularly valuable attributes -- leadership and 3-pt shooting. He's only giving us one of those and we need both to go far in the post season. He's shooting only 31% from three in BE play and that just isn't good enough for a player who otherwise isn't adding much beyond leadership. Freeman and Summers arent shooting well either (only Sapp and Ewing are) and you could fairly criticize their BE play too, but that doesn't change the fact that Jon is not getting the job done. If any one of them can get it going from deep consistently that should help the other two get better looks and hopefully it will snowball. But Jon is the senior and has the track record and he's the one the staff was counting on to hit 3s this year. Here's hoping he starts doing that because we really dont have any other options.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Feb 10, 2008 13:10:41 GMT -5
"We all want the Hoyas to win and play better. It's just some of us actually realize that it must improve through hard work and commitment and not from a bunch of idiots jumping up and down to Zombie Nation and looking at Lunardi/Pomeroy as the "Great Oz" of CBB. "
Actually Pomeroy has shown that there is a significant statistical corelation between playing Zombie Nation versus other pump up music.
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Post by hometownhoya72 on Feb 10, 2008 13:29:41 GMT -5
Let's look at it this way. Facts as we know them: #1 The Cardinals are not the only team in the big B/E gaining momentum.
#2 As with other teams our guys have many flaws.
#3 GU has been on top all season in the conference so we are looking for that second wind, because of the late season stalemate, and stagnant plateau.
#4 Slumps are normal, rotations fall apart, expectations drop especially for good and great teams.
#5 The weakness has been exposed now for GU, breaking the press, inconsistent back court play, and running in to the wall in the second half.
#6 Jeff Greene is a millionaire at Seattle he can't help us this year, so last year is irrelevant so stop talking about the impossible.
#7 The Princeton offense is being shut down in the most critical situations and periods of the game. Creativity and out of the box thinking may be required from time to time.
#8 As we get closer to post season and March madness hits the street, the opponents get tougher, therefore "comma", the bench will have to be utilized. I read where "Crawford" was a turnover and fouling machine, I disagree somewhat. His rough tough play is discredited because of his height. When nothing else works for a time period the wild card is used. It worked for Ewing Jr, it will work for Crawford. Put Crawford's aggressive play into Roy Hibbert, you would need a tranquilizer gun in the paint, to stop him. Ewing has been a quiet storm this year, apply the same principal across the board. When Summer's need to breathe a bit or is not feeling it like last night flip the circuit breaker and put in a new light bulb and see what happens.
#9 Foul shooting " O M G" please fix that cancer it will eat us up in the big dance.
#10 Support all of us don't panic and continue to give it. They will find a way to win all of them will.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2008 13:54:39 GMT -5
BUT I WORRY this slump re alot of the guys on three shoooting is not just a few games its a long long time like six or seven even when great d and hustle got us to win.. one stat comparing jwalls and austins three point shooting like first games and then the last seven or eight was scary like 48% to like 20% or something like that THATS A PROBLEM gotta stop tommarrow nite its febreary and need to step it up go quicker on offense but dont hurry as ucla legendary coach wooden once said GO QUICKER ON OFFENSE BUT DONT HURRY go hoyas come out strong and beat the wild cats ITS FEBRUARY NOW RIGHT NOW FOR REAL
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 10, 2008 14:39:51 GMT -5
i think the problem with wallace is that he has to be comfortable stepping out of the shadow of green. now that he is recognized as a threat, the pressure on him to perform is higher. that pressure can affect performance positively or negatively. notice how you can drive a golf ball off the practice tees arrow straight but in front of spectators in real play you shank them. its no different here.
without the killer instinct the pressure can make you lose confidence. wallace is losing confidence. he needs to develop an angry confident killer instinct, a mental readjustment just like roy has done from earlier this season.
wallace has the skill, he just needs to be comfortable and confident being being out of greens shadow and being the man. just my 2 cents.
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