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Post by professorhoya on Feb 9, 2008 23:51:11 GMT -5
Basically Rivers is overrated. The annoucners are always saying how he is docs son and how good he is. I just don't see it. I see a okay defensive player who is below subpar on offense (at least for this year) He's been making bonehead mistakes all season but has avoided criticism. Ewing on the other had is really good this year but, isn't getting the minutes he should. Do you really think that because some TV announcers say the kid's father is an NBA coach that has any influence on Coach Thompson's playing time decisions? To quote John McEnroe, "you cannot be serious". I agree Ewing has been good - his PT has increased as the year has gone on. Tonight he basically played as many minutes as most of the starters. He has limitations as well. He seems to manage to avoid criticism from fans and annoucners when everyone else (guys who are actually good like Wallace, Summers, Sapp) seem to get trashed. (Throws racket and headband). I can only attribute that to him being Doc's son because I'm not sure why he's off limits from criticism. Look at the title of this thread for instance. Ewing has limitations but is a solid player and plays with the most heart on the team. Rivers isn't capable of playing at this level on offense right now.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 9, 2008 23:56:22 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been reading, but Rivers gets plenty of run as a whipping boy on this board. He has limitations just like all the other guards on this team do. He is the best (and biggest) on-ball defender of the three guard rotation. He was not the only culprit with boneheaded turnovers tonight: Sapp and Freeman each had 3 TOs as well.
My point is that to say that somehow he is getting playing time because the coach knows his father is a NBA coach is ludicrous and totally out of character with anything we know about Coach Thompson.
As for thread titles, we are discussing college students here. The moderators reserve the right to alter thread titles that are needlessly disparaging of them.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Feb 9, 2008 23:57:53 GMT -5
Here's a fair question for the board. I was at the UNC game at Continental Airlines last March. And when Jon let that ball fly both myself and every hoya fan around me KNEW it was going in. If he had to take that shot today, do you feel the same way?
This Wallace isn't the same player he was last year. I don't know WHY that is, but I can see that its true because I've watched or listened through Rich to every Hoya game of the last two years. Something needs to change for this team to make a reasonable run at its preseason goals.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Feb 9, 2008 23:58:09 GMT -5
Nobody on this team averages even 27 minutes per game. Are you telling me that we can't get Sapp and Summers up to 30-32 minutes a game? If we get Ewing up to 25, that's 8 minutes per game right there that we can reduce Wallace's role by. Then he can come in as a roleplayer, which, at this point, he is at best. If you look at Big East numbers instead of full season numbers you will see that you are incorrect. In Big East play, which I think is the correct indicator given the loss of Wright and the lack of blowout garbage time, Jesse and Austin play 32 and 31 minutes a game. Dajuan is only playing 26 a game but that might have something to do with his shooting 39% from the field and 32% from 3, both worse than your scapegoat Wallace, while only scoring about 1.6 points more than Wallace. Take away his monster game against South Florida and you have a "role player" in Dajuan who has stepped up just once. Also, for what its worth Wallace has a slightly better assist to turnover rate than Sapp in BE play. Look at the numbers a little more closely. The truth is, this loss to a top 25 RPI team and one who will be highly ranked by the end of the season, ON THE ROAD. it really isn't all that bad. They are finally healthy and playing great and a loss to them is no embarrassment. They are the #6 team in field goal % defense in the country and were able to harass everyone on our team, not just Wallace. BTW, Wallace had 4 assists to 2 turnovers tonight. Give me a break with this bashing crap and pay a little more attention.
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hoyanick
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by hoyanick on Feb 9, 2008 23:58:14 GMT -5
Royski, sorry buddy, but Wallace is the type of guy who is likely to cause you, as the author of this thread, major embarassment come March. Last year, during the Big East Tournament, I had the pleasure of *bumping* a "Jeff Green Has No Heart" thread that was started after last year's Duke game. The typical response to people like me, who say that HoyaTalkers tend to exagerrate and unfairly place blame on student-athletes, is that this is an internet talk board and is, therefore, a place for venting and critical analysis. Thats absolutely true. But its also a place where your harsh comments are stored forever, and can always be referenced at a later, more important time when the games count and our Hoyas come through. GO HOYAS. Fans like this are FULL OF CRAP. Jeff Green STUNK the early part of last year--and how did the team perform? When he got AGGRESSIVE--how did they play? So the people who were on him for being too passive "ate their words" or were they 1000000000% CORRECT IN THE FRIGGIN' FIRST PLACE? Keep dreaming about the "Wallace making people eat their words" while I'm hoping he gets the film, and decides enough is enough and gets after it on the court--you know in terms of actually ADDRESSING the problem with his play--not hoping it goes away in some sort of friggin "SR Dream Movie-like ending". You know 300+ other teams have SENIORS too--and how does their season end? We all want Wallace and Hoyas to do well-it's just some of us want the problem areas addressed--not avoided to keep someone's feelings from being hurt. You seem a little wound up. Hope you can make it to the game on Monday - I think you'd bring some energy to the place. I'll be in 118, like I always am, and would be happy to discuss how 'full of crap' my state of being as a Hoya fan is. Of course Wallace has to start hitting his shots. Its not like I'm trying to write a Chicken Soup for Jon Wallace's soul here. I just don't think benching the captain is the solution. The difference between the pro-Wallace people and the anti-Wallace people is the amount of confidence we place in him. I have confidence that he will break out of this slump. Why? Because past performances hint that he is a competitor and a precise shooter. Its really as simple as that, and I think he deserves that confidence and respect.
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 535
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Post by ichirohoya on Feb 10, 2008 0:01:58 GMT -5
Here's a fair question for the board. I was at the UNC game at Continental Airlines last March. And when Jon let that ball fly both myself and every hoya fan around me KNEW it was going in. If he had to take that shot today, do you feel the same way? This Wallace isn't the same player he was last year. I don't know WHY that is, but I can see that its true because I've watched or listened through Rich to every Hoya game of the last two years. Something needs to change for this team to make a reasonable run at its preseason goals. Maybe I'm answering this with my heart rather than my head but, if we needed a 3 to tie an elite 8 game I would want Wallace to take it. As for "knowing" it will go in... call me a homer- but- everytime he goes up with his feet set- i still expect Wallace's 3's to fall.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Feb 10, 2008 0:01:59 GMT -5
Nobody on this team averages even 27 minutes per game. Are you telling me that we can't get Sapp and Summers up to 30-32 minutes a game? If we get Ewing up to 25, that's 8 minutes per game right there that we can reduce Wallace's role by. Then he can come in as a roleplayer, which, apoint, he is at best. If you look at Big East numbers instead of full season numbers you will see that you are incorrect. In Big East play, which I think is the correct indicator given the loss of Wright and the lack of blowout garbage time, Jesse and Austin play 32 and 31 minutes a game. Dajuan is only playing 26 a game but that might have something to do with his shooting 39% from the field and 32% from 3, both worse than your scapegoat Wallace, while only scoring about 1.6 points more than Wallace. Take away his monster game against South Florida and you have a "role player" in Dajuan who has stepped up just once. Also, for what its worth Wallace has a slightly better assist to turnover rate than Sapp in BE play. Look at the numbers a little more closely. The truth is, this loss to a top 25 RPI team and one who will be highly ranked by the end of the season, ON THE ROAD. it really isn't all that bad. They are finally healthy and playing great and a loss to them is no embarrassment. They are the #6 team in field goal % defense in the country and were able to harass everyone on our team, not just Wallace. t this BTW, Wallace had 4 assists to 2 turnovers tonight. Give me a break with this bashing crap and pay a little more attention. If you think that Wallace was really the cause of only two turnovers tonight, you should watch the game instead of looking at a box score. Here's a fair question for the board. I was at the UNC game at Continental Airlines last March. And when Jon let that ball fly both myself and every hoya fan around me KNEW it was going in. If he had to take that shot today, do you feel the same way? This Wallace isn't the same player he was last year. I don't know WHY that is, but I can see that its true because I've watched or listened through Rich to every Hoya game of the last two years. Something needs to change for this team to make a reasonable run at its preseason goals. Maybe I'm answering this with my heart rather than my head but, if we needed a 3 to tie an elite 8 game I would want Wallace to take it. As for "knowing" it will go in... call me a homer- but- everytime he goes up with his feet set- i still expect Wallace's 3's to fall. That's a fair comment and I respect it because I understand the feeling. I used to have it myself. However, right now I don't get that feeling at all. I cringe when I see Wallace fire a (usually somewhat contested) three.
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 535
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Post by ichirohoya on Feb 10, 2008 0:04:58 GMT -5
If you think that Wallace was really the cause of only two turnovers tonight, you should watch the game instead of looking at a box score.
In J-Wal's defense- there were ALOT of handcheck/body-bump no-calls when he was bringing the ball into the frontcourt.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2008 0:06:49 GMT -5
The play that symbolized the entire game--Wallace firing a pass to Dajuan in the corner and it goes to Williams of Louisville and Summers gives him a "WTF WAS THAT" look and chirps at him. Now that proves that Wallace is becoming gunshy-when fans talk about it--it's one thing. When your teammates start to get on your ass a bit--then you have to find some way to get out of whatever is going on. Law school is next year for Wallace--he's got games left to find his game/shot-and contribute-but it's not as if it's going to happen because we all like Jon and want it to--he's got to find some ways to contribute and I'd settle for him getting this team running the offense--it's brutal to watch 3 guys throw it around the horn 30-35 feet from hoop--what does that do other then allow defense to rest?
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 535
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Post by ichirohoya on Feb 10, 2008 0:07:44 GMT -5
That's a fair comment and I respect it because I understand the feeling. I used to have it myself. However, right now I don't get that feeling at all. I cringe when I see Wallace fire a (usually somewhat contested) three.
Agree to disagree on this i suppose. I still see Wallace go up (when its a well-chosen shot-- which it still usually is) and think "ok- heres where he gets hot again."
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2008 0:07:59 GMT -5
If you think that Wallace was really the cause of only two turnovers tonight, you should watch the game instead of looking at a box score.In J-Wal's defense- there were ALOT of handcheck/body-bump no-calls when he was bringing the ball into the frontcourt. It's the BIG EAST--gimme a break about this crap. Get tough and find some game. Attack and get after some people. This isn't the damn ACC.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 10, 2008 0:10:53 GMT -5
1. OldHoyaFan--I like your posts. No personal issue AT ALL. But your avatar...that's Lic's, man. Every time I see that thing, I expect to read something that is so positive and excited that it's also incoherent, bordering obnoxious. But you gotta love Lic. I'm not sure how I feel about someone else with that picture.
2. It seems like a loss really brings out the crazies on this board. And I don't mean "crazies" like "crazy fans, love the team." I mean more like "They only come out at night" crazy.
"They only come out at night....or in this case, the daytime" (Chief Wiggum)...or, apparently when we lose.
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Post by drjimcooper on Feb 10, 2008 0:16:28 GMT -5
During J-Wall's recent slump, it seems that the majority of his shots are missing long off the back rim. Maybe we can run some plays for him to get an open look from NBA territory. He's less likely to bang it too strong and what better way to regain confidence than by stroking a couple long ones.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Feb 10, 2008 0:35:32 GMT -5
Jon is slumping as a shooter but still doing well on assists-to-turnovers and being a captain on the court.
Jessie is hitting some huge shots but also making way too many turnovers.
Austin has tons of promise but isn't great defensively yet and tends to disappear at times.
Jeremiah is a great defender and rebounding guard but still not effective as an outside shooter.
Tyler has a lot of heart but is a turnover and fouling machine.
DaJuan is super-athletic but streaky and makes mental mistakes.
Roy is one of the country's best big men when his game is on, but seems to need to sit down a lot more than other players and still can be too hesitant sometimes with the ball.
Patrick is mostly great lately, a good all-rounder.
Vernon is getting better but really mistake-prone.
Nobody on this team should be beyond criticism, but nobody's that much better than anyone else, either. This is the kind of team where addressing problem A creates problem B. Mostly it's working, though. I see us as a team of flawed players who do better as a unit on the court than one would expect on paper. Keep your expectations reasonable.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 10, 2008 1:03:34 GMT -5
1. OldHoyaFan--I like your posts. No personal issue AT ALL. But your avatar...that's Lic's, man. Every time I see that thing, I expect to read something that is so positive and excited that it's also incoherent, bordering obnoxious. But you gotta love Lic. I'm not sure how I feel about someone else with that picture. 2. It seems like a loss really brings out the crazies on this board. And I don't mean "crazies" like "crazy fans, love the team." I mean more like "They only come out at night" crazy. "They only come out at night....or in this case, the daytime" (Chief Wiggum)...or, apparently when we lose. Sorry about the avatar confusion. Didn't like it much anyway.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Feb 10, 2008 1:04:56 GMT -5
Obviously Jon is in a brutal slump, and I'm sure no one feels worse about it than he does. But we've got three real ballhandlers on this team--Wallace, Sapp and Rivers. If Wright was healthy, he might well be eating into Jon's minutes right now. But he's not, and there is no way you can sit Wallace. Just got to hope he can turn it around.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Feb 10, 2008 1:32:51 GMT -5
Royski, sorry buddy, but Wallace is the type of guy who is likely to cause you, as the author of this thread, major embarassment come March. Last year, during the Big East Tournament, I had the pleasure of *bumping* a "Jeff Green Has No Heart" thread that was started after last year's Duke game. The typical response to people like me, who say that HoyaTalkers tend to exagerrate and unfairly place blame on student-athletes, is that this is an internet talk board and is, therefore, a place for venting and critical analysis. Thats absolutely true. But its also a place where your harsh comments are stored forever, and can always be referenced at a later, more important time when the games count and our Hoyas come through. GO HOYAS. Fans like this are FULL OF CRAP. Jeff Green STUNK the early part of last year--and how did the team perform? When he got AGGRESSIVE--how did they play? So the people who were on him for being too passive "ate their words" or were they 1000000000% CORRECT IN THE FRIGGIN' FIRST PLACE? Keep dreaming about the "Wallace making people eat their words" while I'm hoping he gets the film, and decides enough is enough and gets after it on the court--you know in terms of actually ADDRESSING the problem with his play--not hoping it goes away in some sort of friggin "SR Dream Movie-like ending". You know 300+ other teams have SENIORS too--and how does their season end? We all want Wallace and Hoyas to do well-it's just some of us want the problem areas addressed--not avoided to keep someone's feelings from being hurt. Go address them then - drive to the GU campus and tell Wallace how much you think he sucks. I'm not happy about his play this season either, but I also realize that in last year's tourney game against UNC he hit one of the biggest shots in GU's history - so if that's all he ever does for the Hoyas, well, it's a helluva lot more than 99% of the players ever have, and certainly more than YOU ever have. Go eat your CHEESY DOODLES.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2008 1:47:14 GMT -5
Again--I guess Jon Wallace was the only guy to do a thing in that East Regional Game. Listen-what shade of lipstick does 90% of this site use to give Jon his "human fanning"? Here's the new rules 1. You can critique anyone NOT named Jon Wallace because he hit a shot to tie a game that wouldn't have been possible if not for the kids who ARE allowed to be critqued. 2. If you do critcize the play of team/players--you aren't a real fan. 3. If you don't worship at the alter of Wallace--then you are not a Hoya fan. 4. If you bring actual basketball discussion instead of excuses--you are behaving "out of line" and not providing the proper temperature that is required to be performing the "human fan" to the precious Jon Wallace who is above any criticism. For people who don't like reality--go watch DVD's of last year and leave discussion as to how THIS YEAR's team can improve to the fans who actually watch the games and don't live in Wallace-Town.
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 10, 2008 5:54:02 GMT -5
If he must sit, Rivers must not get off the bus. LMAO at that one
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 10, 2008 5:55:02 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been reading, but Rivers gets plenty of run as a whipping boy on this board. He has limitations just like all the other guards on this team do. He is the best (and biggest) on-ball defender of the three guard rotation. He was not the only culprit with boneheaded turnovers tonight: Sapp and Freeman each had 3 TOs as well. My point is that to say that somehow he is getting playing time because the coach knows his father is a NBA coach is ludicrous and totally out of character with anything we know about Coach Thompson. As for thread titles, we are discussing college students here. The moderators reserve the right to alter thread titles that are needlessly disparaging of them. Yes sir, definitely
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