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Post by professorhoya on Feb 9, 2008 23:27:47 GMT -5
Did Hoyas not extend the lead in First Half with Rivers in the game? Or was that a mirage? Is Rivers a great player? No--but he does things without scoring--which Wallace doesn't. Rivers actually gets a rebound and plays defense. What a novel concept for a guard on a team who can't score consistently. It at least keeps you in the game. Blaming Rivers for the turnovers against the press has to be traced to the coaching staff. I've HATED how Hoyas approach pressure defense and tonight was no different. They play scared/passive--and you have to ATTACK. It's awful and it's consistent with how this team has approached things against press. If the staff wants different execution--then take guys out who aren't executing. Rivers has no outside shot. When he shoots it is an automatic turnover. Alot of plays I see Rivers makes a bad pass or bricks a shot leading to an easy basket and 4 point turnaround. You don't even have to bother covering Rivers on offense but can double team other guys because you know he is hesitant to shoot and when he does shoot it is disaster. If he wasn't Doc's son he would've been benched along time ago for all the mistakes he's been making throughout the season.
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Post by hometownhoya72 on Feb 9, 2008 23:28:47 GMT -5
Tyler could not hurt us anymore tonight than anyone else. If anything might of helped. Last five minutes of the game no sense of urgency!!! No scrapping or fighting to hang on complacent play for offense. NO answer for defense. Simple we got caught looking in the second half. Rick Patino adjusted his team at half time, we did not. Summers, off. Wallace, off. Rivers decision making process sub standard. Freeman freshman mistakes. Hibbert second half non effective. Ewing Jr " E " for effort. Macklin well was Macklin. Team effort was sub par under 10 mikes. Momentum swing with 20,000 people (4rth largest crowd in Freedom Hall history.) Man to man defense and press killed the half court set up. Which in turn made Princeton offense useless. Which equals 8 point loss. Spilled milk, lessons learned, time to load up for the next game.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Feb 9, 2008 23:29:18 GMT -5
Jon Wallace is not going to sit. Do you know how I know? Because he has the most consecutive starts of any player in D-I. Period. He is not playing well at all, and I think he needs to cede some of his minutes (having Wright would have been great) but he is in no way going to come off the bench in his G'town career. He needs to fix his shot, though, we just need production from a man who was almost automatic last year and during the beginning of this season too. Ugh. We really need him to step up and play like he can/has. But not sit. But what if he can't step up? Roy Hibbert turned away MILLIONS of dollars to come back to school and try to help Georgetown win a championship. Should we put that sacrifice on the line for the sake of a streak?
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nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nathanhm on Feb 9, 2008 23:30:59 GMT -5
Why can't he sit? No one is saying don't give him any minutes but see how he plays coming off the bench.
Starting Ewing gives us a more natural 5.
I don't really care if he has the record for starts, thats a useless record. I want W's.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 9, 2008 23:32:39 GMT -5
If he wasn't Doc's son he would've been benched along time ago for all the mistakes he's been making throughout the season. Using that kind of logic to explain coaching decisions is not supported by any evidence. Mr. Ewing Sr. has a far longer track record with the current coach than does Doc Rivers yet his son was taken out of the starting lineup and does not play 40 minutes a game. How do you explain that?
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HoyaPride
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 484
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Post by HoyaPride on Feb 9, 2008 23:34:09 GMT -5
royski-
get a good rest and bring your "positive attitude" back for the Nova game.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Feb 9, 2008 23:34:33 GMT -5
The argument about him not sitting was made on another thread last week. I just find it lame on several fronts, but most of all because the theory implies that JTIII is willing to sacrifice the team's success for something as meaningless as a streak. I don't see that happening.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Feb 9, 2008 23:34:53 GMT -5
Nobody on this team averages even 27 minutes per game. Are you telling me that we can't get Sapp and Summers up to 30-32 minutes a game? If we get Ewing up to 25, that's 8 minutes per game right there that we can reduce Wallace's role by. Then he can come in as a roleplayer, which, at this point, he is at best.
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Post by hometownhoya72 on Feb 9, 2008 23:35:18 GMT -5
At this point I do think Crawford is a better fit than Rivers. He may not have magical handles but in a situation like tonight he would have added a much needed spark or least some energy on the floor.
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Post by wrestlemania on Feb 9, 2008 23:36:33 GMT -5
The backcourt has about as much handle as Uwe Blab. Forget it.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 9, 2008 23:37:29 GMT -5
If he wasn't Doc's son he would've been benched along time ago for all the mistakes he's been making throughout the season. Using that kind of logic to explain coaching decisions is not supported by any evidence. Mr. Ewing Sr. has a far longer track record with the current coach than does Doc Rivers yet his son was taken out of the starting lineup and does not play 40 minutes a game. How do you explain that? Basically Rivers is overrated. The annoucners are always saying how he is docs son and how good he is. I just don't see it. I see a okay defensive player who is below subpar on offense (at least for this year) He's been making bonehead mistakes all season but has avoided criticism. Ewing on the other had is really good this year but, isn't getting the minutes he should.
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HoyaPride
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 484
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Post by HoyaPride on Feb 9, 2008 23:37:48 GMT -5
every player is a role player. Jon is not meeting his "role" expectations right now. Tonight, neither did DuJuan, Rivers, Macklin,or Sapp. Let's sit them all!
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dchoyafan
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 132
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Post by dchoyafan on Feb 9, 2008 23:38:30 GMT -5
Jon Wallace is not going to sit. Do you know how I know? Because he has the most consecutive starts of any player in D-I. Period. He is not playing well at all, and I think he needs to cede some of his minutes (having Wright would have been great) but he is in no way going to come off the bench in his G'town career. He needs to fix his shot, though, we just need production from a man who was almost automatic last year and during the beginning of this season too. Ugh. We really need him to step up and play like he can/has. But not sit. But what if he can't step up? Roy Hibbert turned away MILLIONS of dollars to come back to school and try to help Georgetown win a championship. Should we put that sacrifice on the line for the sake of a streak? If Wallace can't turn it around this team might be in some serious trouble come March. I really hope -and think- he can. He needs to play off the ball more, so that he can catch a pass and release immediately. That has historically been his game. The press is really getting to him right now, and I think we should take the ball out of his hands a little more. Hell, give it to Roy instead! Besides our outside shooting, failing to pass it into the big guy was our big (but probably overlooked) flaw in this game. Roy was almost automatic when he actually touched the ball, much like last year. We struggle when our guards choose to jack up crappy 3s instead of passing it in past the zone. We also really need to make teams hurt when we break their press, but we just never seem to take advantage of mismatches down the court. I really wish we had wright.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Feb 9, 2008 23:40:34 GMT -5
every player is a role player. Jon is not meeting his "role" expectations right now. Tonight, neither did DuJuan, Rivers, Macklin,or Sapp. Let's sit them all! While your strawman arguements make me think you've never taken a philosophy course, I will respond anyway. First of all, it is DaJuan. It's annoying enough when members of other boards feel the need to spell it DuJuan, I don't think we need that here. More importantly, the DaJuan Summers and Jessie Sapp are the only other starters on your list, and thus the only ones worthy of discussion here. BOTH of them have been ridiculously superior to Wallace in conference play. For them, tonight was a blip. For Wallace, it's a trend.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Feb 9, 2008 23:40:53 GMT -5
Everyone knows that Jon is stuggling mightily, and I too would like to see the Sapp-Freeman backcourt more to see if it can be effective. But I just don't get the obsession with Wallace lately. That second half debacle was pretty much a team effort -- no one played especially well, and several were pretty horrendous or just completely non-factors.
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dchoyafan
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 132
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Post by dchoyafan on Feb 9, 2008 23:41:59 GMT -5
Why can't he sit? No one is saying don't give him any minutes but see how he plays coming off the bench. Starting Ewing gives us a more natural 5. I don't really care if he has the record for starts, thats a useless record. I want W's. Ewing has played better and provided more spark coming off the bench than he did earlier this year when he was starting. He is an ideal 6th man, and should stay that way. JT3 said so himself... Who else would you play?
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GUMBA
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 737
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Post by GUMBA on Feb 9, 2008 23:44:09 GMT -5
People need to settle down. Jonathan is clearly in a shooting slump. The team lacks heart and aggression. But they are sticking to their "stuff" as the coach tells them to. first it was Pat needs to sit. Now it is Pat needs to start. A few games back it was Austin was a beast and half. Now it is Austin hits the freshman wall. Rivers has a great defensive game and he is a hero. A bad game and he should not be let off the bus. Vern stunk then Vern is a machine and now he sucks again. Come on now. They are a top ten team that lost to a good Louisville team that many picked to be #1 or 2 in the Big East. No shame there. they could score better than my grandma in the first ten minutes of the 2nd half tonight but that stuff happens. The team's best wins are against ND, UCONN and the Cuse. No big signatures. They need to find heart. JTIII is all about growing during the year and peaking at the end. I still trust in him and in Jon.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 9, 2008 23:44:26 GMT -5
look jons in a shooting slump.. but so is about everyone summers alot of bad threes alot of misses remember like 18% from threes in part cause the offense slowed down didnot move without the ball no quick cuts so end with low clock and forced three.. soooo need to hustle on OFFENSE too then need to hit some shots not just jwall somebody else missed the other 16 threes you know go hoyas this is about moving on o and hitting SOME threes three more and we woulda won go hoyas beat nova
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 9, 2008 23:44:39 GMT -5
Using that kind of logic to explain coaching decisions is not supported by any evidence. Mr. Ewing Sr. has a far longer track record with the current coach than does Doc Rivers yet his son was taken out of the starting lineup and does not play 40 minutes a game. How do you explain that? Basically Rivers is overrated. The annoucners are always saying how he is docs son and how good he is. I just don't see it. I see a okay defensive player who is below subpar on offense (at least for this year) He's been making bonehead mistakes all season but has avoided criticism. Ewing on the other had is really good this year but, isn't getting the minutes he should. Do you really think that because some TV announcers say the kid's father is an NBA coach that has any influence on Coach Thompson's playing time decisions? To quote John McEnroe, "you cannot be serious". I agree Ewing has been good - his PT has increased as the year has gone on. Tonight he basically played as many minutes as most of the starters. He has limitations as well.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 9, 2008 23:44:53 GMT -5
royski- with all due respect, we are currently in first place with a record of 19-3. Jon Wallace hit the biggest shot (green's do-si-do aside) of the Final Four run last year, is a senior captain and has and will continue to be a huge part of this team until their last game in March (or April). Who are you kidding? Now is not the time to be bashing him, he has earned that. Is he struggling-yes. Are others-yes. If we bounce back Monday followed by a week to prepare for cuse, we get better fast and wallace bashing goes away. I am as frustrated as anyone, but to sit JWall at this point is crazy. I agree he has earned the right to start the remaining games of his Hoya career, but royski has a point. JT3 has to come up with some innovative way to get a Crawford/Rivers combination to take more of Wallace's minutes. That will be difficult for Monday's game because Nova will pressure the guards also. Last year when teams pressured Wallace he did not shoot well either, but when they left him with a good look he was money. Right now he has no confidence in his stroke. The telling moment of the 2nd half was when Wallace had a rare open look for 3 at the top of the key, but passed on the shot to pass ball to a covered MACKLIN. I knew then he had no confidence in his stroke. If Jon can't or wont hit that shot he really can't help the Hoyas in a tight defensive game like tonight. If JT3 can steal a couple of minutes with Crawford, he might have the 3pt stroke that will loosen the middle up for Roy. This team really misses Wright's speed and ability to break the press. All 4 guards looked shaky tonight. Freeman looks slow this year in his dribble. I saw the utube segment last year where he made a crossover move on a guard at the top of the key and dunked the ball on him in a split second. Now it seems his moves are in slow motion. Did he gain weight over the summer in order to play forward?
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