TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 19, 2006 22:47:54 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm unhappy that the '87 Twins are no longer the worst team to win a pennant. Go Tigers! Keep the '87 Twins as the worst team to win the WS!
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,608
|
Post by DanMcQ on Oct 19, 2006 23:33:06 GMT -5
The Mets have a closer, right?
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 19, 2006 23:40:26 GMT -5
The Molina family OWNS the city of NY--these guys just destroy New York teams and a few things stuck out tonight: 1. How bad was Billy Wagner in the Postseason? I mean you keep Heilman out there when it's clearly the spot to bring in your closer--well if he's not given up 6 runs in 5 2/3 innings of work in Postseason and been shaky in just about every outing. 2. How do you not bunt to get the runners over to let Reyes have a shot to knock them both in?? Cliff Floyd hitting a 3 run HR was very "Torre like" in thinking. 3. Endy Chavez's catch--WOW! All I can say and if not for him, this game would've been a 5-1 breeze. 4. David Wright going to catch as much heat as A-Rod has?? Or will he get a pass for being in his first postseason? He was terrible at the plate and outside of one HR, the only hits I saw were weak flares into RF. Pretty poor postseason for Mr. Wright but have a feeling we'll see plenty more of him and Mets in future. 5. You CANNOT take a called strike 3 in the situation Beltran was in? Just can't--that is inexcusable and it's not like everyone in the stadium or in their homes didn't know Wainwright was going to drop the curve on him---at least try to fight it off and get a pitch you can drive--like the first "hit me" fastball he laid in there to get ahead. Beltran is a Cards killer and I honestly was looking for a walk off slam the way he owns them--but to take a called strike to end your team's season? YIKES!!! Tough break for Mets and their fans that they lost Pedro/El Duque when they did--but kudos on a great year and Willie did a great job patching together some shaky starting pitching in Postseason. Thought they'd get to the World Series, but wasn't meant to be this year. Cardinals are the worst team I've seen get to the World Series and if the Tigers don't sweep them, I'll be shocked. When you have Preston Wilson and Juan Encarncion "protecting" Albert Pujuols in a Game 7?? Can't wait for the reception Jeff Weaver gets from Tiger fans this weekend--go Tigers and to be honest, I don't know how much I'll even watch due to fact I don't see this as a very competitive series.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 19, 2006 23:52:53 GMT -5
Cardinals are the worst team I've seen get to the World Series. The cardinals are the worst team to ever make it to the world series. The 1987 Twins won the pennant (and WS) with a record of 85-77. No team has won the pennant, let alone the WS, with a worse record prior to the Cardinals this year.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,608
|
Post by DanMcQ on Oct 20, 2006 0:10:57 GMT -5
3. Endy Chavez's catch--WOW! All I can say and if not for him, this game would've been a 5-1 breeze. Not to mention the fact that Cliff Floyd never even gets NEAR that ball even with a healthy Achilles.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,608
|
Post by DanMcQ on Oct 21, 2006 14:04:18 GMT -5
Interesting expose on the 'double curse' that was the Sox' undoing in 1986: Buckner's glove(s)In anticipation of the start of the World Series tonight, a quick perusal of the two team's rosters shows only one ex-Cub, the infamous Neifi Perez, gracing the lists. Sadly, it seems the Tigers will have a steep hill to climb.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Oct 21, 2006 20:24:10 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm unhappy that the '87 Twins are no longer the worst team to win a pennant. Go Tigers! Keep the '87 Twins as the worst team to win the WS! I actually thought that the 88 Dodgers were worse than the 87 Twins (who actually were lucky to play a decimated Cardinal team). Dodgers had Hershiser and little else. This Cardinal team is definitely worse than those teams. Don't give them much chance, but go Cards anyway.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 21, 2006 20:42:40 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm unhappy that the '87 Twins are no longer the worst team to win a pennant. Go Tigers! Keep the '87 Twins as the worst team to win the WS! I actually thought that the 88 Dodgers were worse than the 87 Twins (who actually were lucky to play a decimated Cardinal team). Dodgers had Hershiser and little else. This Cardinal team is definitely worse than those teams. Don't give them much chance, but go Cards anyway. I was going by regular season record. Though it turns out I was wrong--I missed the '73 Mets, who only won 82 games. The Twins won 85.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
Member is Online
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 21, 2006 21:53:30 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm unhappy that the '87 Twins are no longer the worst team to win a pennant. Go Tigers! Keep the '87 Twins as the worst team to win the WS! I actually thought that the 88 Dodgers were worse than the 87 Twins (who actually were lucky to play a decimated Cardinal team). Dodgers had Hershiser and little else. This Cardinal team is definitely worse than those teams. Don't give them much chance, but go Cards anyway. Kirk Gibson was hurt in the playoffs, but he was Laeague MVP, and the team won 94 games. They had the good incarnation of Steve Sax, and Pedro Guerrero when he was healthy. The key was their pitching -- they only had two guys with more than 15 IP with an ERA over 4.00. This was the ERA of their top three: 2.21, 2.91, 2.91. Now this is 1988, but that's still good. Alejandro Pena and Brian Holton added 170 IP of sub-2.00 ERA ball in the pen.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 23, 2006 8:09:13 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2006 9:02:04 GMT -5
So apparently Kenny Rogers has been cheating this postseason. And somehow, the umps managed to let him wash away the evidence.... ... and pitch seven scoreless innings without it.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 23, 2006 9:06:06 GMT -5
So apparently Kenny Rogers has been cheating this postseason. And somehow, the umps managed to let him wash away the evidence.... ... and pitch seven scoreless innings without it. Which he wouldn't have been able to do from the clubhouse if he'd been ejected for doctoring the ball in the first inning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2006 9:54:48 GMT -5
... and pitch seven scoreless innings without it. Which he wouldn't have been able to do from the clubhouse if he'd been ejected for doctoring the ball in the first inning. Word. Although I wonder if this is all being blown out of proportion? Seemed like La Russa was satisfied with the explanation he got in-game (despite his unwillingness to discuss the situation further). Wonder if he's going to appeal/protest or anything of that nature, which would be quite hard to do at this point since the umps let The Gambler wash his hands and destroy all the evidence...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2006 10:03:39 GMT -5
Check out the pics on ESPN.com. Apparently this smudge has reared its ugly head before...
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 23, 2006 12:09:16 GMT -5
Rogers will forever be known as "Poop Hand". That's it, no debates and for a guy to be that blatantly open about doctoring the ball is something only this guy could do. Poop Hand has had a great postseason but only in the Bud Selig era would a pitcher openly cheat--whether it really does much or not isn't the point, the point is it's against the rules.
LaRussa didn't complain because he and Dave Duncan mastered the art of having a Pitching Staff cheat---see the A's from back in the day--Rick HoneyCUTT, Storm Davis, etc.......and they loved to have their pitchers use ivory soap on the home uniform as it wasn't as easily detected.
Poop Hand just speaks to what Bud Selig has ruled over in his time as Commissioner. A total disgrace.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Oct 23, 2006 12:29:36 GMT -5
So:
We have no proof of his cheating + The opposing manager didn't ask for an inspection + He washed his hands and threw 7 shutout innings with no mysterious substance =
Guilty?
No proof, no inspection, and no change in his dominance when the substance was removed. Kenny Rogers being a good or bad guy aside, I can't just assume he's cheating because of an unknown spot and the fact he's pitching well with or without it. Sorry.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Oct 23, 2006 12:41:12 GMT -5
So: We have no proof of his cheating + The opposing manager didn't ask for an inspection + He washed his hands and threw 7 shutout innings with no mysterious substance = Guilty? No proof, no inspection, and no change in his dominance when the substance was removed. Kenny Rogers being a good or bad guy aside, I can't just assume he's cheating because of an unknown spot and the fact he's pitching well with or without it. Sorry. By no proof do you mean pictures from multiple starts where he had similar stuff on his hand? And why wasn't there an inspection? Why didn't LaRussa go out and make a fuss about this after his hitters were complaining that Rogers' pitches were doing weird things in the first inning? And you realize that the lack of change in his success doesn't prove he wasn't cheating, right?
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Oct 23, 2006 18:53:47 GMT -5
So: We have no proof of his cheating + The opposing manager didn't ask for an inspection + He washed his hands and threw 7 shutout innings with no mysterious substance = Guilty? No proof, no inspection, and no change in his dominance when the substance was removed. Kenny Rogers being a good or bad guy aside, I can't just assume he's cheating because of an unknown spot and the fact he's pitching well with or without it. Sorry. By no proof do you mean pictures from multiple starts where he had similar stuff on his hand? And why wasn't there an inspection? Why didn't LaRussa go out and make a fuss about this after his hitters were complaining that Rogers' pitches were doing weird things in the first inning? And you realize that the lack of change in his success doesn't prove he wasn't cheating, right? 1. That's suspicious, sure, but damning? 2. I don't know why. Do you? 3. And do I realize that the continuation of his performance does not prove (the negative) that he was NOT cheating? Sigh. I guess you are right that it doesn't reach the reptuable standard of not proving he wasn't doing something wrong. Apologies. He must be guilty of the thing of which he was not formally accused.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Oct 24, 2006 22:16:36 GMT -5
I actually thought that the 88 Dodgers were worse than the 87 Twins (who actually were lucky to play a decimated Cardinal team). Dodgers had Hershiser and little else. This Cardinal team is definitely worse than those teams. Don't give them much chance, but go Cards anyway. I was going by regular season record. Though it turns out I was wrong--I missed the '73 Mets, who only won 82 games. The Twins won 85. I remembered the 73 Mets (which shows I go back a bit). But that team had great pitching, and they caught fire late. Plus, they knocked off the team that was to be The Big Red Machine. They were legit. In the 8th inning tonight, and Chris Carpenter is money.
|
|