SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 11, 2007 3:39:26 GMT -5
To answer an earlier question: The shots today were decent. Most were fairly open because W&M packed themselves into a tight zone and left the outside open for the three's. But, that being said most were not good shots because they were forced. Very rarely did we run the offense and get deep into the shot clock, rather most times we shot an open three ten seconds into our possession. While these shots weren't bad, it just shows that we aren't patient enough yet to let the offense work and open up a better, higher percentage shot. Disagree. If the offense only works when you take a shot with three seconds left on the clock then its a bad offense that should be scrapped. And obviously I do not believe that its a bad offense. An open shot and a good look is an open shot and a good look regardless of how much time is left on the clock. We're recruiting big time players and to suggest these guys should only milk the clock first before shooting is absurd IMO. III says again and again that the style does not have to be the stereotypically slow style that most fans consider the Princeton offense to be. And yet some fans here still cling to the notion that only a few ticks should remain on the clock before the Hoyas even look at the basket. Arguably the three victories of the III era that Hoya fans talk about the most are the Duke and UNC wins and the win against the Domers in last season's BET. All three games involved a lot of shots being taken early in the shot clock's run. Yes, shots should not be forced (though a few a game isn't the worst thing). Yes, its great to be patient when you don't have a good enough look at the basket. But if the ball is swung to a Hoya open in the corner for a jumper and he is set then he should fire away even if 30 seconds is left on that clock. Now if your point was that it would have been better to work the ball around until we got a shot closer to the basket (via Roy or anyone in the paint) then I agree with your point. But this team will settle for a jumper at times even if the shot clock is about to expire. So why not take it ten seconds earlier? 100% agree, MCI. The reality is, I think most of the players right now are feeling out their level of aggressiveness. Roy was aggressive; Sapp was aggressive. DaJuan didn't play much. But everyone else was deferring a bit, I bet. The open threes are good shots -- and will go down. But there are probably better shots. But that doesn't mean you milk the clock. Go get the good shot.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 11, 2007 3:41:23 GMT -5
when we REMEMBERED WE HAD A SEVEN FOOTER we did real good yup that seven footer remember him and then remember the alamo go hoyas go roy roy roy No one forgot Roy, lic. But other players need to get involved. We went to Roy when we needed to. This was against W&M -- I'd rather develop players and try things out than blow them out by thirty dong something that won't work against UCLA or UNC.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Nov 11, 2007 8:27:52 GMT -5
Agree with a lot that's been said. Patience and ball movement are a means to an end (getting a good shot). If we can get a good shot in transition or early in the shot clock in our half court offense, we should take it. I imagine this is exactly what JT3 tells our guys.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 11, 2007 9:08:03 GMT -5
I thought that every possession we had in which Roy touched the ball was a better possession than when he didn't touch it. That's not to say he needs to take the shot, but it's just obvious that a lot of things open up as soon as the big man gets his hand on the ball. The defense just has to react to him and open something up.
When Roy's not on the floor, we have no one that causes that kind of change in the defense. But it should be Vernon. He played some good minutes today, and I think he touched the ball 3 times. He still just seems a little lost, kind of skipping around the lane with no real purpose. And when we have 4 guards (Wallace, Wright, Rivers, and Freeman) on the floor, Macklin needs to act as SOME kind of size threat.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Nov 11, 2007 9:40:31 GMT -5
next weeks game should be really telling how far we have to go. other than the staples of hibbert and wallace im hoping that summers or freeman or macklin become consistent 12 points a game player. i think freeman may be the one. somehow i feel summers is pressing to be green too much. he should just develop his own game rather than emulate green.
was wright attacking the zone yesterday, and if so, how did he do? i was thinking last year he would be the missing link in overcoming the problems we had with zones.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 11, 2007 9:55:29 GMT -5
Freeman's mid-range game and Sapp/Wright's penetrations might be our best zone beaters.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Nov 11, 2007 10:12:30 GMT -5
I thought Chris forced things against the zone. He had, I think, one assist and three turnovers, the turnovers coming via trying to penetrate and/or pass through the zone. He has obvious big upside, but to me he and Austin both looked like freshmen yesterday.
We do need to learn how to score against the zone (and the best weapon may always be good outside shooting), because we're going to see it a lot.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 11, 2007 11:52:20 GMT -5
win is win and good point about us doing better when roy touches the ball so dont forgett the seven footer for MANY reasons glad austin hit his last shot to break the ice HE WILL BE VERY SPECIAL good game overall BUT WATCH OUT FOR MICHIGAN IT WILL BE A WAR FOLKS GO HOYAS ;D
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 11, 2007 12:59:22 GMT -5
Another question for those that were there -- did we play more zone or man in the second half? Kiselius had 16 in the first half and nothing in the second -- really, our defense won this one.
Pomeroy has his stats up for this one now:
Pace: 61 possessions (pretty slow)
Offense: 110 efficiency (last year we were at 116 against tougher opponents). The big difference? We collected 40% of possible offensive rebounds last year -- against W&M an abysmal 25%.
We also missed a few too many FTs and obviously took a ton of 3s, but our % wasn't much worse than last year (again, against weaker comp).
Defense: 86 Efficiency. Which is pretty darn good, even considering comp. We barely fouled at all, which helped to offset the slightly higher FG% they had.
Also, while their O rebounds were frustrating, they only rebounded 25% of them -- well below DI averages (30-35%). They just had so many misses it seemed awful. Remember, W&M may be CAA, but they actually weren't that short of a team.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 11, 2007 14:20:28 GMT -5
Another question for those that were there -- did we play more zone or man in the second half? Kiselius had 16 in the first half and nothing in the second -- really, our defense won this one. Our defense will win every one this year. We know what the offense will look like. Jeff was a great player and a go-to guy but our efficiency really came from Roy and Jon primarily because they are so good from 2 and 3 respectively. Dajuan and Jessie should improve enough on offense to keep our offensive efficiency high. Hearing that Dajuan's off-the-ball defense has improved is the best thing I could have heard. The one thing we missed last year from the year before was Brandon's D off the ball. If Dajuan can even be close to Bowman's level two years ago, we're in really good shape.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 11, 2007 16:08:33 GMT -5
JT3 had some interesting things to say post-game that were not mentioned in the GUHoyas quote page or in the post game articles. It looks like most, if not all, of the post game is transcribed on JT3's AIM page (http://www.aimpages.com/jt3/profile.html), which DFW posted on HoyaSaxa.
The one thing that jumps out is that JT3 is looking to adjust the roles of Dajuan, Jeremiah, and JT4. Interesting stuff...
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Nov 12, 2007 10:15:41 GMT -5
All in all a perfect opening game - 1) Won 2) Game was close enough to make team forget about pre season press clippings 3) Played poorly enough that III has plenty to rag them about all week 4) Frosh & bench got plenty of minutes 5) Saw glimpse of what Roy should be 6) Won
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by joey0403p on Nov 12, 2007 11:21:00 GMT -5
Some thoughts from section 111 -
There were a decent amount of W&M fans there, and the folks around me were very annoying. Wondering if anyone had similar experiences.
A guy sitting a few rows ahead of me had a Jeff Green sonics t shirt on. Sweat shirt... but worst game of the year to wear it too given W&M was wearing green.
Vernon / Rivers - looked very similar to last year, which is to say not terribly impressive.
Freeman / Wright - looked timid but its their first game and they really didn't need to do much.
I'm hoping for more from PE Jr as well.
All in all JTIII used a lot of different lineups and he will continue to experiment -- have faith.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Nov 13, 2007 9:07:43 GMT -5
Some thoughts:
1. It was the first game. Everyone was a bit tentative except, Roy, Jon and Jessie, the three guys with the most experience. That is to be expected.
2. Like everyone said, Jessie was great today and showed improvement in his ballhandling and jump shot.
3. Austin Freeman is going to be a stud. He was 1-4 this game, but the three shots he missed were all three pointers. On the fourth shot, he got the ball behind the arc, stepped in and drilled a mid-range jumper. As the cliche goes, that is definitely a "lost art." Sure he was tentative today, but he is big and strong and if he is consistent with the mid-range jumper, he could be absolutely devastating.
4. Roy has no interest in being tentative. That's exactly what we need from him. Still, I didn't like the two fouls early. Obviously, our front court is thinner than it has been in the past, so Roy must be more careful. I didn't like that quote about fouling to prevent easy lay-ups. If we play good team d, then blocked shots are less important.
5. When I saw Dajuan lose his cool in the second half after an offensive foul call, I thought "He's not ready for the spotlight." Given our team make-up and the importance of the 3/4 spot, he needs to be and I think he will get there.
6. We've played one game. I know Pat/Vern and some other guys didn't have their best games, but I trust JTIII and his one game at a time approach. Last year's start and finish has me feeling confident that even if there are let downs and bumps in the road this season, its all about March and JTII will have this team ready to perform down the stretch. Go Hoyas!!!
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