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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Nov 10, 2007 18:57:32 GMT -5
Just some random follow-on thoughts:
1) Yes the jumbotron video is awesome (ambassador/Jersey34's comments that footage from last year would help is on target although I thought I saw one or two shots from last year -- the We Are Gtown close is nice -- maybe Jon's 3 in the UNC game is required)
2) Sapp had a 65-70% Dr. Jekyll/30-35% Mr, Hyde game. He shot well, forced tempo nicely and had a couple of good passes. But he also had moments where he'd turn it over and pass poorly. His NYC swagger helped today.
3) III had a interesting 2nd half defensive lineup for a while of 4 guards (Jon, Chris, Rivers and either Sapp or Freeman I believe) and Vern. It actually worked well in disrupting W&M's perimeter attack.
4) Refs were channeling Ted Valentine wayyyy too much--I'll leave it at that....
5) The scandalous part of today is that GU was backdoored twice. One could even make the argument that W&M executed its version of the Princeton offense better than the Hoyas did theirs (I blame ru
6) Most obvious stat: returning FF starters scored all but 2 (a Freeman jumper - he also had a sweet block on the defensive end) -- need Ewing/Vern to step up offensively (I believe Chris and Austin will have better offensive outings than today's)
7) The students brought their A game - time for the alums to step now and fill lower and part of upper bowl (not enough alumni season tix in my mind)....
8) Michigan will be much tougher -- lots of work needed between now and then......
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2007 19:00:06 GMT -5
Good first game to get the rust out... practices up to the Michigan game should be great now that reality sets in. 26 3's out of 48 FGA's is way too much.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Nov 10, 2007 19:07:55 GMT -5
The scandalous part of today is that GU was backdoored twice. One could even make the argument that W&M executed its version of the Princeton offense better than the Hoyas did theirs. I noticed that, too, Wilson Blvd. Maybe it was the zone that W&M were playing, but we saw the zone lots last year and still ran our offense. My take is that there is a vacancy in the high post without Jeff. Roy came out high to get the ball a few times, but he didn't really stay there long. We do miss Jeff. DaJuan, Pat and Vern really don't come remotely close in either skill or leadership. That doesn't mean we won't be really good, but it probably does mean we'll have to find a different way to be really good.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 10, 2007 19:16:19 GMT -5
Well after going back to last years boxscore against Hartford and the post-game thread from that year and Vanderbilt there seems to be a pattern. All three years their was a major complaint with too much three point shooting. We ended 6-23 from three point range against Hartford. People said many were taken out of the flow of the offense and our passing was also mediocre. Last year none of the freshman scored in the first game, and Jeff, Jon and Roy were the high scorers. This year the freshman combined for 2 points and the major scorers were Roy, Jon, and Jesse. There are however a few positive differences. Last year Roy couldn't finish around the basket and everyone seemed to be complaining about his lack of aggresivness against smaller players. Does not seem to be the case this year. Last year Macklin didn't play at all and Ewing contributed no positives. Just a little comparison of the two first games so we can see how much you can really take away from the first game. Glad you pointed this out because I was thinking the exact same thing. Last year's game though there was scoring punch off the bench from Egerson to give the Hoyas that 4th scorer. As for the frosh not scoring I will like to point out Jeff Green's first two games as a Hoya in which he was essentially a non-factor as a scorer despite starting. Its an adjustment not only in the level of play but in terms of getting used to the system. Question: were there any backdoor cuts? Also is it possible that the Hoyas aren't good yet at offensive rebounding because the players are spread out away from the basket in order to give the spacing necessary for the o to work?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 10, 2007 19:19:11 GMT -5
4) Refs were channeling Ted Valentine wayyyy too much--I'll leave it at that.... O'Connell, Bush or Corbett? Which was the official with the J. Pederman hair? That dude was absolutely atrocious. Divine retribution when he caught a deflected ball in the mug in the second half. Disappointed in the first half defense, but overall, not too bad for an opener. As we have seen, some other schools have done much worse in their openers. I think the only way to stop Roy this year is going to be to deny him the ball. Once he gets it, count it, or a foul, or both. Yes, I know W&M topped out at about 6'8", bu Roy looked great. I especially loved when he gave Austin a big hug when Freeman made his first FG as a Hoya. That's your captain, everyone. I thought Patrick played some good defense, so the game wasn't totally bad for him. Obviously, he'll want to do better, but he did have some good contributions on one end of the floor.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Nov 10, 2007 19:20:19 GMT -5
I don't remember any backdoor cuts by Hoyas.
What I remember most vividly about Jeff Green's first game as a Hoya is SIX blocked shots. Not a shabby debut.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 10, 2007 19:22:09 GMT -5
I'll throw this one out there, but I think this team should be pressing more. We did press in the first half after made free throws, but it is just a simple man press. Could we add a zone press or something that will get us a few turnovers, especially against these relatively unathletic teams? Need to force some of these guys to make quick decisions. Great point. I forgot to mention that. If our bigs are going to keep picking up fouls and we have to play three or more guards on the floor it will be best to press rather than to stay in a passive defense hoping the opposition mises shots. Hell, if they miss they could get the rebound anyway considering our size will be on the bench, right? And a reason why the Hoyas never blow away these athletically inferior teams (and not as deep teams) is because the Hoyas limit the possessions and don't try to turn them over. This is a very effective tool against the better (and more aggressive) sqauds but for the inferior teams it may work in their favor because they don't want to run in the first place.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 10, 2007 19:26:38 GMT -5
You could also add Dajuan as our forth scorer this year. He only had ten but i think he would have had more if his time wasn't limited because of foul trouble. I think our lack of backdoors has more to do with it being the first game of the season, than missing Jeff Green. The offense that we are used to usually doesn't start coming together until January. We will probably see a lot of ugly games from here until it does. Last year hoyatalk2.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1163992537&page=1
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 10, 2007 19:29:26 GMT -5
You could also add Dajuan as our forth scorer this year. Trust me I was. Four for last year's opener (though I don't think Egerson got into double figures) and four for this year's.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 10, 2007 19:30:00 GMT -5
And a reason why the Hoyas never blow away these athletically inferior teams (and not as deep teams) is because the Hoyas limit the possessions and don't try to turn them over. This is a very effective tool against the better (and more aggressive) sqauds but for the inferior teams it may work in their favor because they don't want to run in the first place. This is a really good point. Give the man a milkshake (with a banana).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2007 19:41:16 GMT -5
We've discussed the spacing/rebounding point since last year and it looks like it was at its best today.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2007 19:47:21 GMT -5
Judging from last year's experience at the start of the season, JTIII will use these games to try everything out to get the players comfartable and confident. Some of these early games will look awkward, depending on the match-ups. But, it's about getting ready for the BE season. The Memphis game will come late enough for things to have fallen into place. I just wish it was in late January.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 10, 2007 19:59:44 GMT -5
Well after going back to last years boxscore against Hartford and the post-game thread from that year and Vanderbilt there seems to be a pattern. All three years their was a major complaint with too much three point shooting. We ended 6-23 from three point range against Hartford. People said many were taken out of the flow of the offense and our passing was also mediocre. Last year none of the freshman scored in the first game, and Jeff, Jon and Roy were the high scorers. This year the freshman combined for 2 points and the major scorers were Roy, Jon, and Jesse. There are however a few positive differences. Last year Roy couldn't finish around the basket and everyone seemed to be complaining about his lack of aggresivness against smaller players. Does not seem to be the case this year. Last year Macklin didn't play at all and Ewing contributed no positives. Just a little comparison of the two first games so we can see how much you can really take away from the first game. Glad you pointed this out because I was thinking the exact same thing. Last year's game though there was scoring punch off the bench from Egerson to give the Hoyas that 4th scorer. As for the frosh not scoring I will like to point out Jeff Green's first two games as a Hoya in which he was essentially a non-factor as a scorer despite starting. Its an adjustment not only in the level of play but in terms of getting used to the system. Question: were there any backdoor cuts? Also is it possible that the Hoyas aren't good yet at offensive rebounding because the players are spread out away from the basket in order to give the spacing necessary for the o to work? You can't really execute a backdoor pass against a zone, much less the zones that W&M through out there. Jessie tried to throw a backdoor pass, but it was intercepted. What we needed instead was someone in the high post on a consistent basis to facilitate ball reversals, dump downs, etc.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Nov 10, 2007 20:00:41 GMT -5
You don't get backdoors against a packed in zone defense. You attack the seams of the zone or you shoot the open threes. The ball movement needs to be a little better, quicker passes inside or to the elbow.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 10, 2007 20:02:11 GMT -5
What zone were they using?
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Nov 10, 2007 20:03:37 GMT -5
I didn't see the game, but I don't automatically cringe when we shoot a lot of threes -- as long as they were good shots.
For those who saw the game, were we getting good shots or not?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 10, 2007 20:21:24 GMT -5
I'll throw this one out there, but I think this team should be pressing more. We did press in the first half after made free throws, but it is just a simple man press. Could we add a zone press or something that will get us a few turnovers, especially against these relatively unathletic teams? Need to force some of these guys to make quick decisions. What's the point? If it isn't something that we're going to use against good teams, I don't see a lot of point in using it to run up the score against bad teams. It's one of the reasons why hyper-athletic teams look so much better than us against cream puffs but we can play with them later. We may have struggled a bit against half court zone, but that's how people are going to play us.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 10, 2007 20:23:51 GMT -5
The scandalous part of today is that GU was backdoored twice. One could even make the argument that W&M executed its version of the Princeton offense better than the Hoyas did theirs. I noticed that, too, Wilson Blvd. Maybe it was the zone that W&M were playing, but we saw the zone lots last year and still ran our offense. My take is that there is a vacancy in the high post without Jeff. Roy came out high to get the ball a few times, but he didn't really stay there long. Not early on. It took us much of the year to improve to the point where we were picking apart zones.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 10, 2007 20:26:29 GMT -5
The problem is that I think we could use it in league play. We are more athletic than we were last year. We're quicker. We still have length.
Even still, if it can help you win a game (against an ODU or Oregon or Duke) in pre-league play, then it is worth it.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 10, 2007 20:29:07 GMT -5
Couple of other quick thoughts that haven't been covered:
1. We've generally struggled more against teams that run similar offenses to ours. Not always, but they've been basically practicing against us for years.
2. I find it funny half the people on this board are lamenting Jesse's performance and the other half are lamenting all the threes. As I "heard" it, Jesse was the only non-Roy attacking the basket and trying to create. With aggression comes a few more turnovers but we would've been dead without Sapp.
3. Thompson's goal is to win a National Title. Yes, he could require we toss it down to Roy every play, but that doesn't work against everyone. The team is feeling its way out.
4. Echoing Jersey: kudos to Summers on 6 boards in 23 minutes.
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