PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 6:23:04 GMT -5
Agree with the complaints about beilein. If you watch the video however, he barely touched ewing. More than anything I think ewing reacted to the fact that he was getting in ewings face. But my concern is not about beilein as if he hurts his team with his emotions that's to our benefit.
But some here seem to be supporting and even encouraging ewings physical retaliation. I understand why would think that but if you step back and think about it, there are better ways he or the whole hoya team could have addressed it. For him to walk out of his way to shoulder bump another player while that player was being lectured by his coach is clearly provocative and will elicit a reaction.
If it had been any other hoya who did this I wouldn't be concerned. But I have watched ewings behavior all season. He is definitely the most emotional and energetic player on the squad. This is a real positive most of the time. But there is sometimes a cost with every benefit, and in ewings case its his inability to control reach in fouls early on (remember he had 1 foul per minute played), and his ongoing tendency to deliberately body check an opposing player when out of frustration with a tight defender, and a few occassions where I've seen him throw blanatant elbows which thankfully didn't connect.
It seems that something in his head gets angry and lashes out when frustrated. This often results in a foul on him, fts for the other team, and in yesterdays case, a total loss of offensive momentum, 2 fouls called on hibbert, forcing hibber to sit out, and then negative press coverage on the team when the press should have been focusing on our quality of play and damage to the image jtiii has been trying to build
I would like to see ewing channel his emotion like wallace, sapp, summers, green and hibbert which is to play that much harder and focus that much harder. This is about growing up into a mature player. He needs to know he has a choice in what direction he can develop. I think if he chose not to body block, throw elbows and provocate the opposing team when frustrated, he will be a much improved scorer. His emotion and energy are great, I just wish it would be expressed more like sapp and summers express it.
I'm just baffled by the primitive thinking of some on this board who think his actions were justified and should be encouraged when there are so many better things that could have been done in response. And I don't think alexander was out to injure.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 13, 2007 7:05:38 GMT -5
I'm just baffled by the primitive thinking of some on this board who think his actions were justified and should be encouraged when there are so many better things that could have been done in response. And I don't think alexander was out to injure. That's ok -- we all have the right to be baffled once in a while. I, for one, am a bit baffled as to how anyone could interpret Ewing's ever-so-slight bump as some kind of egregious physical retaliation. Maybe I'm just used to good ole fashioned, hard-nosed Big East basketball, and not ACC fluff.
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 7:28:52 GMT -5
It wasn't the severity of the bump that I have issue with so much as the fact that he walked out of his way to bump him while alexander was getting dressed down by beilein. To do it in front of beilein and the refs was poor judgement. If anything, the hoyas could have verbally threatened him on court or given him a hard hacking foul, a moving pick, or some strong subtle bumps during the rest of the game. How about a nasty slam dunk and then taunt beilein afterwards as ur running back upcourt? That way you set ur mind out to doing something positve for ur team. My point is that there are other ways to send a msg other than something so provocative which incited a ruckus, caused us to lose momentum, sent hibbert to the bench, and damage our image. In retrospect the cost of the bump far outweighed any benefit we got, whatever that may be.
This is about teaching alternative ways to resolve conflict and achieve ur goals rather that just following your spur of the moment urge to get physical without regard to the circumstances at hand.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Feb 13, 2007 7:38:03 GMT -5
Pope, every person is different. We don't' have a bunch of ''Stepford players'' on this team like Duke. We have individuals who all have different personalities, who respond to things in different ways. You can be critical of Ewing's actions, but don't tell hm he has be like other players on his team.
I also don't think the people on this board are advocating violence by PEII, but are just applauding his defense of a teammate.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 13, 2007 7:43:18 GMT -5
It wasn't the severity of the bump that I have issue with so much as the fact that he walked out of his way to bump him while alexander was getting dressed down by beilein. To do it in front of beilein and the refs was poor judgement. If anything, the hoyas could have verbally threatened him on court or given him a hard hacking foul, a moving pick, or some strong subtle bumps during the rest of the game. How about a nasty slam dunk and then taunt beilein afterwards as ur running back upcourt? That way you set ur mind out to doing something positve for ur team. My point is that there are other ways to send a msg other than something so provocative which incited a ruckus, caused us to lose momentum, sent hibbert to the bench, and damage our image. In retrospect the cost of the bump far outweighed any benefit we got, whatever that may be. This is about teaching alternative ways to resolve conflict and achieve ur goals rather that just following your spur of the moment urge to get physical without regard to the circumstances at hand. Just to nitpick, he didn't do it in front of the refs -- Beilein had to tell them about it, which is why they reviewed the tape. The refs never saw it. I thought the whole thing was a non-issue, but I certainly thought Beilein's "inappropriate touching" was worse. Good non-call all around for the refs, who recognized it all as pretty much part of the game.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Feb 13, 2007 7:43:58 GMT -5
It wasn't the severity of the bump that I have issue with so much as the fact that he walked out of his way to bump him while alexander was getting dressed down by beilein. To do it in front of beilein and the refs was poor judgement. If anything, the hoyas could have verbally threatened him on court or given him a hard hacking foul, a moving pick, or some strong subtle bumps during the rest of the game. How about a nasty slam dunk and then taunt beilein afterwards as ur running back upcourt? That way you set ur mind out to doing something positve for ur team. My point is that there are other ways to send a msg other than something so provocative which incited a ruckus, caused us to lose momentum, sent hibbert to the bench, and damage our image. In retrospect the cost of the bump far outweighed any benefit we got, whatever that may be. This is about teaching alternative ways to resolve conflict and achieve ur goals rather that just following your spur of the moment urge to get physical without regard to the circumstances at hand. So your are all for dirty retaliation as long as it is hidden in the flow of the game. Seems like your talking out both sides of your neck.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Feb 13, 2007 7:47:58 GMT -5
Pope: Do you wear the shirt that reads "Fear is Next"? If you do, you don't really understand it. Agreed, Ewing's minor bump was not necessary, but sometimes players do things that aren't necessary to remind the other team who they are playing. This is not ballet - basketball is a physical sport and it's important to let the other team know you are capable of playing physical, tough and yes, even cheap.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Feb 13, 2007 7:54:58 GMT -5
Wow, I really didn't expect to wake up and see this thread out to 9 pages long. We're approaching Charlie Daniels territory! Anyways, I figured I would weigh in on this, since I watched the replay last night. I think the bump was not a big deal. He just wanted to send a message and he bearly touched Alexander. I don't think that he even sent the message he wanted because it was a very weak bump. The only complaint that I might have, which people on this board are forgetting, is the trash talking that actually caused the technical foul. When you are up 25, there is no reason to say anything to the other team. The best way to insult a team is to run up the score and it seemed to me that JTIII was content to do that- leaving in most of the starters until 2 mins. left despite the lead. Even that being said, I like that Ewing plays this game with emotion. I agree he needs to continue to control it, but teams need someone like Ewing to keep the team motivated if things aren't going as well as they should. I would predict he will be instrumental when we play Pitt again and when we face tough competition in the NCAA's.
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 8:12:20 GMT -5
Zx, drewhall, et al, I am no pacifist. Believe me. I am not against having an intimidating team and I'm not against retaliation. What I am against is acting like brutes if jtiii doesn't want us to act like that. What I am against is the simpleton notion that the only effective method of retaliation is of the brutish variety which can get out of hand just because someone can't control their emotions. What I am for is thoughtful deliberate actions that are controlled so as to achieve ur objective but that won't wind up hurting the team. This incident shows how a team could be hurt by one players unilateral actions. The consequences were not minor if you think about it. The negative coverage we got is not good especially as jtiii has be trying to develop the exact opposite image and what we need is for people to focus on the highly skilled team we have developed into.
What I would like ewing to do is to do what others on the team have already figured out. That is to channel anger and frustration into playing better and scoring. If retaliation is called for, then figure out a way to do it as a team in a way that will be positive for the team or at the very least minimally disruptive. How about a backdoor alley oop dunk with taunting afterwards? How about setting the goal of winning the game by 40 points and then taunting them after the game? Or if the team is losing and has been playing lethargic and needs to get energized, then maybe something overtly physical is better. Each situation needs to be handled smartly. But no more of this impulsive, loner vigilante stuff. We can do better.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 13, 2007 8:19:30 GMT -5
i think a big deal is being made over nothing. pat just bruhed a kid that he thought undercut jon going for the ball and beilein was just defeding his player. relax.
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VelvetElvis
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Post by VelvetElvis on Feb 13, 2007 8:29:46 GMT -5
I am not going to comment on who was right or wrong. That has horse has been given the Barbaro. I will say that it did seem as if the WVU team came out in 2nd half utilizing a hard-foul and "rough 'em up" strategy against us. Like they were trying to rattle us and change the momentum of the game. The good news is that, outside of the Ewing Technical, we never allowed them to change our demeanor. I will say that I thought that Thompson should have sat Ewing and let him cool down immediately after "The Bump".
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njcoach
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Post by njcoach on Feb 13, 2007 8:34:52 GMT -5
i think a big deal is being made over nothing. pat just bruhed a kid that he thought undercut jon going for the ball and beilein was just defeding his player. relax. Bingo, NY. My two cents (since eveyone else hase spend a buck or two): 1. I wasn't crazy about the bump when I saw it, but that's about all it was. It was a message and that's all. Still, in a closer game it could have cost the Hoyas big time. I'd rather he bury Alexander next chance he had to box him out. 2. The refs reviewed the play on video and still didn't assess a technical foul. 3. I like a team with a couple of designated enforcers. You can be classy AND tough. (At least I can.) 4. The Belein's response was worse. He is the only one who didn't look calm. He must have done some fast talking to keep from getting ejected. A suspension is still possible. (You can't give another man's girl a foot massage and you can't touch another man's player.)
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 8:42:46 GMT -5
Pope: Do you wear the shirt that reads "Fear is Next"? If you do, you don't really understand it. I don't wear that shirt. Don't personally like the design of it. Do you wear it? If you do then you don't really understand it. You see, the fear jtiii is referring to is NOT the fear of being physically assaulted. It is the fear of having to play against an offensively unstoppable and defensively relentless team that executes perfectly. Its the fear of facing michael jordan not michael tyson. The fear was what wvu had for the first 25 minutes of the game. They really wanted to get out of verizon and were embarrassed by the asswhooping they were getting. Alexander did what he did out of fear. I bet you wvu fears and dreads having to play us again. That's the fear jtiii speaks about. He is a prophet. Unfortunately, that fear was ruined by The Bump. If it weren't for The Bump I'd say we would have won by 40 and all the shows would be announcing our arrival from the rooftops. And samardo samuels would be calling jtiii to be a part of it. But alas, I guess we can try to do it against nova, pitt or at the bet.
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Raging
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Post by Raging on Feb 13, 2007 9:07:27 GMT -5
The most offensive thing I saw at that game wasn't the PEJ push or the Bee Line grab but right before the game when some WVU fans in the 400 section above us started booing as they introduced the gentleman who was to sing our nation's national anthem.
I'm sorry, but there's no place for disrespecting our flag or national anthem.
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HoyaNCCT
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Post by HoyaNCCT on Feb 13, 2007 9:12:43 GMT -5
I feel a bit heretical going on the record disagreeing with the Pope...
That said, PE Jr. is a team guy. Nobody touches his point guard. He realizes J Wall's importance and wasn't having it.
PEJR - you're the man. Keep it up.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Feb 13, 2007 9:33:29 GMT -5
A few thoughts - 1) PE Jr had time to think about what he was doing - he went out of his way to "nudge" him and that's all it was - a "nudge" - emotional or calculated? 2) Alexander desevrves blame for being either overagressive or not knowing what was going on in the game. 3) Beilein should not have gone after PE Jr - he should have gone to the refs. A coach putting his hands on an opposing player is never right - unless it's a congratulatory gesture after the game. Bob Knight gets crucified for putting his hands on his own players. 4) All you need to do to sum up the whole situation is to look at Beilein when he was talking to III after the incident at mid-court. I'm not a lip reader, but it sure looked like he was trying awful hard to convince JT III to forget the whole thing. He knew exactly what he did in touching PE Jr. and he was trying like hell to diffuse the situation. Again, the sad thing is that this distracts from the fact that we absolutely demolished a ranked team that was fresh off an upset of the No. 2 team in the country. We can beat ANYONE right now.
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edstimes
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Post by edstimes on Feb 13, 2007 9:36:51 GMT -5
Dear PEII, Its great to have you on the team. We all admire the hustle and energy you bring as well as your good 3 point shooting. However, I must say that many of us in HoyaNation are very concerned with your lack of emotional control. The Hoyas are a very classy team, but your outbursts are completely out of synch and unnecessary. In addition to reach-in fouls, I have seen you throw elbows, bump people, and now, slap the hand of the opposing coach (even though he should not have touched you). PEII, I ask that you really think about this and know that your emotions can be both a good and a bad thing for the team. When they result in silly fouls and when they create a ruckus and make us completely lose our momentum, those are bad results. It is important that you control your emotions so that they dont hurt the team. I hope that it doesnt come back to haunt the team and ask that you address the issue now before you do something you will regret. Those kinds of outbursts make you look silly and make people feel embarassed for you. Develop grace in the face of pressure and see that it is a sign of strength when you control your anger. It is a sign of weakness when you lash out. Keep up the good work and good luck in the Tourney. A disgraceful, careless post. Please suspend this user's account **
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2007 9:40:36 GMT -5
Seriously, is this a big deal anywhere outside the message boards of the two schools involved? This is one of the dumber threads in HoyaTalk history.
Still, I can't believe no one has mentioned Alexander's second cheap shot - the one when he threw an elbow and hip-checked Ewing across the lane just after the brouhaha. Ewing fell for it and got the T for taunting, but that play tells me that Alexander was Editeded off and as out of control as Ewing was. Beilein knew it, which is why he had pulled him over to talk to him when Ewing bumped him.
A couple of dumb moves by a few people, but not a big deal at all. I blame the holier than thou Pope for this nonsensical thread.
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Post by ExcitableBoy on Feb 13, 2007 9:46:24 GMT -5
Pope: Do you wear the shirt that reads "Fear is Next"? If you do, you don't really understand it. I don't wear that shirt. Don't personally like the design of it. Do you wear it? If you do then you don't really understand it. You see, the fear jtiii is referring to is NOT the fear of being physically assaulted. It is the fear of having to play against an offensively unstoppable and defensively relentless team that executes perfectly. Its the fear of facing michael jordan not michael tyson. The fear was what wvu had for the first 25 minutes of the game. They really wanted to get out of verizon and were embarrassed by the asswhooping they were getting. Alexander did what he did out of fear. I bet you wvu fears and dreads having to play us again. That's the fear jtiii speaks about. He is a prophet. Unfortunately, that fear was ruined by The Bump. If it weren't for The Bump I'd say we would have won by 40 and all the shows would be announcing our arrival from the rooftops. And samardo samuels would be calling jtiii to be a part of it. But alas, I guess we can try to do it against nova, pitt or at the bet. Pope, players bump into each other all of the time. Rough play is very much a part of Men's basketball, especially between in-conference rivals. In fact, rough play happens so frequently, that an entire category of fouls (technical) was created for fouls more egregious than just hitting someone's arm during a shot. What does not happen all of the time is a coach coming onto the court and making contact with an opposing player. I honestly can't believe you are more upset at Ewing than Beehind. [Sarcasm]To be fair, I can understand if you are that worried about Ewing's technical foul situation. He is now on pace for a whopping 1.2 technical fouls this year! He is tied for the team lead with fellow hot-head Jeff Green. If we could only get Ewing and Green to settle down, we could have beaten both Navy and West Virginia by comfortable margins.[/Sarcasm]
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Feb 13, 2007 9:52:13 GMT -5
consequences of THE BUMP 1. beilein jersey grab ---> 2. ewing hand slap ---> 3. causes a ruckus ---> 4. georgetown scoring drought 5. 2 ticky tack fouls on hibbert as the refs try to regain control sending him to the bench 6. negative news coverage of hoyas which detracts from our victory and the image jtiii has worked so hard to build 7. we win by only 18 instead of 30+, adding to the bad taste in the pollsters mouth from seeing all the negative coverage from #6, will this cost us 1 or 2 spots in the polls just because the pollsters are human? theres got to be a better way to send a message and accomplish the same ends. either that, or lets invade iraq again. now im really going to bed. You left out the fact that it was 48-24 when this happened...eight minutes later it was 67-37. The "scoring drought" you mention had us going up by 30 eight minutes after all this happened. So how exactly do you blame us only winning by 18 on this particular incident?
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